The EU inching toward a vaccine requirement for most travel

[Markanddonna]

The EU leaders met at a virtual summit to discuss the liklihood of requiring a vaccine to travel within the EU.  Please read for the details.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/eu-coronavirus-summit-vaccine-certificates-expected-by-summer/a-56701869

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Markanddonna

[ilikeanswers]

Air New Zealand is already testing a digital health passport on one of their flight routes and Israel has lanunched a "Green Pass":

 

Green Pass: Vaccinated Israelis get access to gyms and hotels as country slowly reopens

[teabear]

UK government in its usual seesaw - two weeks ago stated never ever consider such a thing = two days ago https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56169616

 

Of course given how badly they screwed up the track and trace system - we can expect a few months of shambolic planning and then with luck a system that will work

[wowzz]

42 minutes ago, teabear said:

UK government in its usual seesaw - two weeks ago stated never ever consider such a thing = two days ago https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56169616

 

Of course given how badly they screwed up the track and trace system - we can expect a few months of shambolic planning and then with luck a system that will work

Although, to  be fair, the UK vaccination programme has been a great success.

At the speed the EU is progressing,  they will not need  a vaccination passport until next year!  

[ldubs]

On 2/27/2021 at 6:48 AM, ilikeanswers said:

Air New Zealand is already testing a digital health passport on one of their flight routes and Israel has lanunched a "Green Pass":

 

Green Pass: Vaccinated Israelis get access to gyms and hotels as country slowly reopens

 

I didn't open the link but sure like the sounds of the approach they are taking.   

[donaldsc]

Great idea.  Should be required for entry to any public facility in the US and not just for travel.

 

DON

[Ride-The-Waves]

3 hours ago, donaldsc said:

Great idea.  Should be required for entry to any public facility in the US and not just for travel.

 

DON

"Public" to include businesses used by the public.  We feel much safer having received the two Pfizer inoculations and believe cruising will be much safer for everyone with crew and passengers fully vaccinated.

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, donaldsc said:

Great idea.  Should be required for entry to any public facility in the US and not just for travel.

 

DON

This would help the anti-vaxxers to grow up.  They cannot be forced to get a vaccine, but they can be given incentives (or strong disincentives not to).

[SelectSys]

On 2/27/2021 at 7:16 AM, teabear said:

UK government in its usual seesaw - two weeks ago stated never ever consider such a thing = two days ago https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56169616

 

Of course given how badly they screwed up the track and trace system - we can expect a few months of shambolic planning and then with luck a system that will work

 

It's always a question of relative performance and screw ups.  The good news is that it is more likely that people from the UK will have the ability to get the passport sooner than those in the EU!  The EU may have a system, but not many local customers!   Look at the relative vaccination performance for the groups most represented in CC and in cruising generally.  I would be happy if I lived in the UK based on vaccine delivery to date!

 

The data to date suggests travel in Europe will be slow for a while longer - at least for Europeans.  Foreigners may be to be able to actually get better deals in the short run before too many people get vaccinated.

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by SelectSys

[wowzz]

Woo Hoo!

For once us Brits are doing pretty well.

Deaths down, hospitalisations down, and over 90% of the over 70s vaccinated.

But, when it comes to international travel, it means nothing, because until France, Germany, Spain etc get their act together,  we can't travel. 

The point is that  this virus is a world wide problem, and the speed of recovery is determined by the slowest countries. 

 

[FredT]

8 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But, when it comes to international travel, it means nothing, because until France, Germany, Spain etc get their act together,  we can't travel. 

Honest question here..... Why?    You may not be able to travel to the EU countries, but I would "think" that a high vaccination rate would open you up to travel to many the countries/regions.

[davecttr]

6 hours ago, FredT said:

Honest question here..... Why?    You may not be able to travel to the EU countries, but I would "think" that a high vaccination rate would open you up to travel to many the countries/regions.

The problem is that foreign travel for many millions of Brits means flying to a European destination for a summer holiday in the sun or to the Caribbean or Canary Islands in winter. Most cruising from the UK is to the same destinations with several UK based cruise lines having a lot of departures from UK ports or fly cruises to the Med. So not being able to travel to EU countries is a BIG problem. I think some sort of verifiable vaccination certificate/passport would be required. Also even vaccinated people may remain contagious and the spread of new COVID variants is worrying. We have just had our first 6 cases of the Brazil Manaus variant reported.

 

The EU is moving towards an electronic passport but implementation will be several months away and the UK is delivering mixed messages although not having a vaccine passport for foreign travel will make the government very unpopular with many millions wanted to go on holiday.

 

Go on holiday in the UK as an alternative? We used to do that back in the 1950's etc before the advent of cheap flying. The problem is weather here is too variable for guaranteed sun and we just do not have the infrastructure such as hotels to provide accommodation where people want to holiday.

[SelectSys]

16 hours ago, wowzz said:

The point is that  this virus is a world wide problem, and the speed of recovery is determined by the slowest countries. 

This is true from a global perspective.  It is also true that certain parts of the world will open up on different timelines based on their ability to protect their populations and perceived risk.  Waiting for equivalence of vaccination world wide doesn't seem likely to me.

 

16 hours ago, FredT said:

Honest question here..... Why?    You may not be able to travel to the EU countries, but I would "think" that a high vaccination rate would open you up to travel to many the countries/regions.

It depends on how those countries view the risk of a vaccinated person still carrying the virus into their country and infecting unvaccinated people.  If they view it as low you are likely to be permitted entry.  If high, they probably won't.  Remember, your vaccine does not mean you still can't pass the virus to others.  

[cruisemom42]

Royal Caribbean just announced that their brand new ship Odyssey of the Seas will change its inaugural season plans to sail from Haifa Israel on short (3-7 day) Med cruises starting in May for fully vaccinated Israeli passengers:

 

In conjunction with Israel’s health and tourism authorities, Royal Caribbean will be the first to offer fully vaccinated sailings, where both crew and guests above the age of 16 will be vaccinated against COVID-19. Details on the additional health and safety measures to be implemented by Israel and Royal Caribbean will be announced at a later date.

 

https://www.royalcaribbeanpresscenter.com/press-release/1498/royal-caribbean-says-shalom-israel-with-odyssey-of-the-seas-debut/?fbclid=IwAR2t0gNkYHYR99aGH21YC46uPE9Y7x8xLqdd2Tfr0ujTts_lfFEWDdKBPSY

 

I already started a separate post about this but thought it was worth mentioning here as well.

 

[Ride-The-Waves]

2 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Royal Caribbean just announced that their brand new ship Odyssey of the Seas will change its inaugural season plans to sail from Haifa Israel on short (3-7 day) Med cruises starting in May for fully vaccinated Israeli passengers:

 

In conjunction with Israel’s health and tourism authorities, Royal Caribbean will be the first to offer fully vaccinated sailings, where both crew and guests above the age of 16 will be vaccinated against COVID-19. Details on the additional health and safety measures to be implemented by Israel and Royal Caribbean will be announced at a later date.

 

https://www.royalcaribbeanpresscenter.com/press-release/1498/royal-caribbean-says-shalom-israel-with-odyssey-of-the-seas-debut/?fbclid=IwAR2t0gNkYHYR99aGH21YC46uPE9Y7x8xLqdd2Tfr0ujTts_lfFEWDdKBPSY

 

I already started a separate post about this but thought it was worth mentioning here as well.

 

Why?  This is a nothing burger.  People don't fly into Israel to go on short cruises.  What a hassle.

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Why?  This is a nothing burger.  People don't fly into Israel to go on short cruises.  What a hassle.

 

They are targeting Israeli citizens, not the broader population.

[ontheweb]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

They are targeting Israeli citizens, not the broader population.

That is true at least for the initial cruises.

[ldubs]

11 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Why?  This is a nothing burger.  People don't fly into Israel to go on short cruises.  What a hassle.

 

Not before, but I would now.   

[Zach1213]

20 hours ago, wowzz said:

 

The point is that  this virus is a world wide problem, and the speed of recovery is determined by the slowest countries. 

 

The speed of recovery is determined by the slowest developed countries. The rest of the world will continue to open and leave the lowest developed/poorest countries behind as always. And I say that as an African. If North America/Europe/East Asia/Australia/New Zealand are good to go, the fact that Guinea, Djibouti, Yemen, and Bangladesh aren't will have zero impact. 

[Ride-The-Waves]

2 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

The speed of recovery is determined by the slowest developed countries. The rest of the world will continue to open and leave the lowest developed/poorest countries behind as always. And I say that as an African. If North America/Europe/East Asia/Australia/New Zealand are good to go, the fact that Guinea, Djibouti, Yemen, and Bangladesh aren't will have zero impact. 

Do you consider the USA a "slowest developed country" since it was so slow in responding to the crisis?  It likely fits in there somewhere.  

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Why?  This is a nothing burger.  People don't fly into Israel to go on short cruises.  What a hassle.

Not only will it be one of the few available cruises, it can be paired with land travel in Israel -- while perhaps a "hassle", it surely offers a lot more than flying to Florida to cruise to the Bahamas (what I would call a negative burger -- worse than staying home,)

[navybankerteacher]

51 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Do you consider the USA a "slowest developed country" since it was so slow in responding to the crisis?  It likely fits in there somewhere.  

Are you aware of the fact that the US is a leader in immunizing EVERYONE who is not too stupid to accept vaccination?  At the end of the day, the US is likely to be among the fastest to really recover from the crisis.

[ontheweb]

6 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Not only will it be one of the few available cruises, it can be paired with land travel in Israel -- while perhaps a "hassle", it surely offers a lot more than flying to Florida to cruise to the Bahamas (what I would call a negative burger -- worse than staying home,)

Except since it is at least for now only for Israelis, flying in then cruising and then land travel is not really an alternative for all of us.

[SelectSys]

14 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Not only will it be one of the few available cruises, it can be paired with land travel in Israel -- while perhaps a "hassle", it surely offers a lot more than flying to Florida to cruise to the Bahamas (what I would call a negative burger -- worse than staying home,)

This to me is a real interesting development.  The question is, at what point will the Israeli government open their doors to tourism of any kind?  Right now, only citizens and permanent residents are allowed to enter. The reciprocal deals with Greece and Cyprus won't help foreigners as of yet in terms of vaccine certificates. Even the the link below talks about Passover, it also provides some of the tradeoffs being considered more generally.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/will-foreigners-be-allowed-to-enter-israel-by-passover-explainer-660494

 

11 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Except since it is at least for now only for Israelis, flying in then cruising and then land travel is not really an alternative for all of us.

Is this really possible?  I am not sure.

 

16 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Are you aware of the fact that the US is a leader in immunizing EVERYONE who is not too stupid to accept vaccination?  At the end of the day, the US is likely to be among the fastest to really recover from the crisis.

I hope you are right.  I have been waiting the US system to really "crank up" and produce some results.  I think the vaccination is starting to move as long as the underlying resources are available for manufacturing the vaccine. 

 

The general economy will be another question depending on what policy decisions are made. Travel will certainly recover for a while given the extreme pent up demand.  Other sectors?  I am not as sure.

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Are you aware of the fact that the US is a leader in immunizing EVERYONE who is not too stupid to accept vaccination?  At the end of the day, the US is likely to be among the fastest to really recover from the crisis.

maybe someday we will be the leader in immunizing EVERYONE. As of right now we appear to only be immunizing 65+ plus in most places. That’s a far cry from EVERYONE.