The EU inching toward a vaccine requirement for most travel

[Ride-The-Waves]

Lots of irrelevant discussion.  The EU is on the correct track, IMO.  Just as the world fought polio and other diseases through vaccination, us humans need to do the same with COVID-19 and its variants.  In the US this has been mitigated by the lawyers by hanging the "Emergency Use Authorization" handle on the vaccines.  It should be mandatory for all.  Until that is clear we, us humans, will never reach totality.  Humanity needs a global mandate for this vaccine against COVID-19.

[navybankerteacher]

25 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Lots of irrelevant discussion.  The EU is on the correct track, IMO.  Just as the world fought polio and other diseases through vaccination, us humans need to do the same with COVID-19 and its variants.  In the US this has been mitigated by the lawyers by hanging the "Emergency Use Authorization" handle on the vaccines.  It should be mandatory for all.  Until that is clear we, us humans, will never reach totality.  Humanity needs a global mandate for this vaccine against COVID-19.

Sadly, there are enough people in the US who are adamantly opposed to vaccinations to make effective suppression of COVID-19 unattainable.  Because many of them are probably right in (selfishly) thinking that their youngish age and general good health means that they are not at serious risk,  they do not fall into the “too stupid to live” category —- but it may happen that they will be determined “too stupid to cruise”.

[evandbob]

I can foresee all travel requiring passengers being vaxxed.  IMO, it'll be the only way to safely fly or cruise, take a train, etc.

[cruisemom42]

12 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

In the US this has been mitigated by the lawyers by hanging the "Emergency Use Authorization" handle on the vaccines.

 

Not sure what you mean by this. Approval of the vaccines for use in the US was only possible by applying for the EUA because that is the process to be followed when there is not yet enough data (or analysis of data) to apply for a regular authorization. An EUA carries with it an expectation that this data, and application for regular authorization will follow. 

 

It has nothing to do with lawyers. Per the FDA's own website:

 

FDA expects vaccine manufacturers to include in their EUA requests a plan for active follow-up for safety, including deaths, hospitalizations, and other serious or clinically significant adverse events, among individuals who receive the vaccine under an EUA, to inform ongoing benefit-risk determinations to support continuation of the EUA.

 

FDA also expects manufacturers who receive an EUA to continue their clinical trials to obtain additional safety and effectiveness information and pursue licensure (approval).

 

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained#:~:text=An Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) is a mechanism to facilitate,the current COVID-19 pandemic.

 

[Mary229]

Back on track.  I think a vaccination to enter policy will expedite international travel and trade.  Leisure travelers aren't the only concern here.  Remote business operations can only do so much.  

 

 I would rather have the vaccination policy than the tedious testing, quarantine and retesting policy.  For those who don't or can't take vaccines, this is not forever.  

[Goodtime Cruizin]

On 2/28/2021 at 6:40 PM, wowzz said:

Woo Hoo!

For once us Brits are doing pretty well.

Deaths down, hospitalisations down, and over 90% of the over 70s vaccinated.

But, when it comes to international travel, it means nothing, because until France, Germany, Spain etc get their act together,  we can't travel. 

The point is that  this virus is a world wide problem, and the speed of recovery is determined by the slowest countries. 

 

 

Looking good. Our next cuise is the British Isles, Aug 2022. I think we'll be in good shape by then. 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Looking good. Our next cuise is the British Isles, Aug 2022. I think we'll be in good shape by then. 

 

Same here -- fingers crossed.   

[2wheelin]

On 3/6/2021 at 10:57 AM, evandbob said:

I can foresee all travel requiring passengers being vaxxed.  IMO, it'll be the only way to safely fly or cruise, take a train, etc.

All forms of transportation currently available in the US are very safe. Do you have confirmed cases of large outbreaks on any of them? Yet there are outbreaks at bars, concerts, funerals, among people who have not been on public transportation.

[navybankerteacher]

26 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

All forms of transportation currently available in the US are very safe. Do you have confirmed cases of large outbreaks on any of them? Yet there are outbreaks at bars, concerts, funerals, among people who have not been on public transportation.

And you claim you can confirm that NONE of the people attending those bars, concerts, funerals which appear to have been spreader events rode ANY public transportation in the several days preceding their attendance?

 

 

[2wheelin]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

And you claim you can confirm that NONE of the people attending those bars, concerts, funerals which appear to have been spreader events rode ANY public transportation in the several days preceding their attendance?

 

 

I made no such claim. That would be irrelevant. Case numbers associated with events are a tally of positive tests in attendees after the event. I have seen no such tallies associated with public transportation in the last few months. They may exist but I have not seen them.

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

All forms of transportation currently available in the US are very safe. Do you have confirmed cases of large outbreaks on any of them? Yet there are outbreaks at bars, concerts, funerals, among people who have not been on public transportation.

 

 

4 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

I made no such claim. That would be irrelevant. Case numbers associated with events are a tally of positive tests in attendees after the event. I have seen no such tallies associated with public transportation in the last few months. They may exist but I have not seen them.

What "...outbreaks at bars, concerts, funerals among people who have not been on public transportation."  can you cite?  ---- Which is precisely the claim you DID make.

[navybankerteacher]

Just now, navybankerteacher said:

 

 

What "...outbreaks at bars, concerts, funerals among people who have not been on public transportation."  can you cite?  ---- Which is precisely the claim you DID make.

 

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

Case numbers associated with events are a tally of positive tests in attendees after the event. I have seen no such tallies associated with public transportation in the last few months. They may exist but I have not seen them.

 

It's interesting that relatively early in the pandemic there was a reported (and confirmed) "superspreader" event on a bus in China:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/health/coronavirus-bus-china.html

 

But really there have been very few such reports. Perhaps because of a combination of people either staying away from many kinds of public transport (thus reducing crowding) voluntarily OR by government mandate (e.g., in Milan, trains and buses were to operate at no more than 80% capacity -- even that some felt was too high).  AND many places moved almost IMMEDIATELY to require masks on public transportation -- such as the subway and trains in Japan and the metro in Paris.

 

Are Americans as compliant with these kinds of guidelines?   I couldn't tell you, but I don't personally feel confident, based no what I see around me in my town, that they are.

 

And interestingly, when people did start truly flocking back to public transportation in some European cities, there were disease spikes. Most public transportation involves short rides and many people -- almost impossible to track results. But I would not rule out that it is a contributor to the problem.  

 

And more and more data seems to point out that the longer contact you have with others who are possibly infected, the more likely that YOU will be infected.  So -- a 15-minute subway ride or an hour on the train are possibly fine. A week on a ship where you are crossing and re-crossing paths with the same others for a week?  I'm less sure.  I look at airplanes as a slightly different model because they have ventilation systems that are so much better than the other categories.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by cruisemom42

[2wheelin]

14 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

You need to learn to read. You twisted my words to your agenda.

[2wheelin]

12 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

And more and more data seems to point out that the longer contact you have with others who are possibly infected, the more likely that YOU will be infected.  So -- a 15-minute subway ride or an hour on the train are possibly fine. A week on a ship where you are crossing and re-crossing paths with the same others for a week?  I'm less sure.  I look at airplanes as a slightly different model because they have ventilation systems that are so much better than the other categories.

 

True. And as I stated, I referred to transportation currently available in the US.

[Ride-The-Waves]

Not sure that "fine" is compatible with CDC recommendations.  Latest from CDC suggests that 15-minutes within 6 feet of an infected person is enough to transmit the virus.  CDC also warns that less time does not mitigate virus transmission.  Everyone wearing an approved mask on public conveyances helps reduce transmission.  

 

In Europe the challenge is that in cities public transportation is the standard conveyance (bus, trolley, train, taxi) and private conveyance options are limited.

[evandbob]

22 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

All forms of transportation currently available in the US are very safe. Do you have confirmed cases of large outbreaks on any of them? Yet there are outbreaks at bars, concerts, funerals, among people who have not been on public transportation.

Irrelevant to my statement. "I can foresee all travel requiring passengers to be vaxxed".  Like saying all international flyers need passports or boarding passes.  I made no mention of outbreaks anywhere, totally irrelevant to a vax requirement.

 

It's my crystal ball I'm looking into, and you don't have access to it, so YMMV.

[cruisemom42]

14 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Not sure that "fine" is compatible with CDC recommendations.  Latest from CDC suggests that 15-minutes within 6 feet of an infected person is enough to transmit the virus.  CDC also warns that less time does not mitigate virus transmission.  Everyone wearing an approved mask on public conveyances helps reduce transmission.  

 

In Europe the challenge is that in cities public transportation is the standard conveyance (bus, trolley, train, taxi) and private conveyance options are limited.

 

All true, but the data I saw seem to indicate that large outbreaks and spreader events have NOT been traced to continued public transportation use (i.e., not longer-haul travel) in most European cities. (I did not see anything in my cursory search on the UK...)

[Hlitner]

I think the CDC's latest COVID guidelines (released this morning) are going to cause more concern for the cruise industry.  They made it clear they are not altering their position that recommends  no non-essential travel.  

 

Hank

[SelectSys]

@Hlitner - can you post the link?  I wouldn't be at all surprised with continued or more restrictions on cruising in the US.

 

Like with many other things, it could be that cruising is another industry that goes offshore from the US - at least for a while.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

You need to learn to read. You twisted my words to your agenda.

No twist was involved — I quoted you exactly.  Perhaps you should rethink your agenda.

[drsel]

1) When will the EU allow foreigners to enter with a negative Covid test and/ or a vaccination certificate ?

2) When will cruising resume in the EU for all nationalities with a negative covid test and/ or a vaccination certificate?

Edited March 8, 2021 by drsel

[Ashland]

Just now, drsel said:

1) When will the EU allow foreigners to enter ?

2) When will cruising resume in the EU for all nationalities?

I would like to know this also....hoping my July British Isles cancels before final due.

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, SelectSys said:

@Hlitner - can you post the link?  I wouldn't be at all surprised with continued or more restrictions on cruising in the US.

 

Like with many other things, it could be that cruising is another industry that goes offshore from the US - at least for a while.

Perhaps and most of our cruising is done from non-US ports.  That being said, I am not sure where they will go.  There is some cruising in Europe but it is very limited and not open to  Americans who are the majority of cruisers in the world.  Asia is closed to just about everyone as is Australia and NZ.  

 

As to the new CDC guidance, I actually watched the CDC's press conference (live) on TV this morning.  I assume the info is on various news sites but haven't looked.   My post paraphrased the CDC's Director (Rochelle Walensky) when she said the CDC was not going to alter their recommendation that there be no non-essential travel at this time.

 

Hank

[Ride-The-Waves]

And the cruise lines have yet to respond to CDC's request for data on how they would resume cruising and on board procedures.  That is critical to safely resuming everywhere.  Ports/countries will not be open to large cruise ships disgorging thousands of people without some rules and guidance from both the US CDC and foreign equivalents.  For some reason, maybe they can't or don't want to comply, cruise lines have been missing in action on this issue.   Not comforting.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Ride-The-Waves