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"Fully vaccinated" = not required for 16 and under?


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Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but it seems a Royal ship is going to be sailing with required vaccinations only for those over 16.  They are calling it "fully vaccinated".  In what universe does allowing any number of potentially disease carrying and/or vulnerable children onboard equal fully vaccinated?  Am I interpreting this correctly that there will be children onboard, but they don't need to be vaccinated?  I think so - correct me if I am wrong.

 

This infuriates me on so many levels.  The CEO says they are going to do things 'according to the science".  Baloney.  This is doing things according to the stock price.  It is discriminatory (although I personally support required vaccinations, for the record).  Of all age groups (and I know there are issues with any, I am speaking generally) children are the least likely to follow the appropriate mask wearing and social distancing, especially the younger ones understandably.  In some studies, children have been shown to carry high viral loads in their noses and are classified as 'super spreaders".  Other studies disagree with that conclusion, with my conclusion being that we don't really know the answer to that yet. 

 

This just strikes me as wrong on so many levels.  I know that generally speaking, if children get sick they are sometimes asymptomatic or get mild symptoms, but not always the case.  But if they do get sick, what does this mean for quarantining, as well as their ability to spread it throughout the ship even to the vaccinated passengers/crew as no vaccine is 100% effective.

 

Am I the only one concerned about this?

 

 

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There are no vaccines approved for under 16.

 

There are studies ongoing in children under 16. Some expectation those could result in changes in labeling within another month or so. The cruises are leaving from Israel, and the language I've seen so far is pretty ambiguous as to whether unvaccinated children will be allowed onboard. I'm not an Israeli citizen or resident, so that doesn't impact me at all, so I'm only watching it peripherally. If the vaccine populations are expanded downward by the time that one ship starts cruising in May, then this is likely a moot point. 

 

It doesn't impact me, or at this point anyone who isn't Israeli, so I'm not concerned.

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Posted (edited)

Geez, don´t get all hyper on this 🙂

The statement is about the sailings from Israel - local rules etc. etc.
 

Also, the statement of Richard Fain in his video was something like: Our guest over 16 will have to be vaccinated... There was no exclusion of under 16 etc.

But again... we don´t really know what the conditions for approval of these specific sailings are. And since we can´t sail on them, why would I get upset.

In many parts of the world this is a disussion. How to deal with younger people or people who can´t be vaccinated (I am saying "can´t" and not the ones who "don`t want to" !). There might be alternatives like testing etc. for this group.
We will see. I am not getting excited about things not even happening yet.

Edited by Miaminice
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I n the short term we would only be comfortable on a cruise if everyone is vaccinated.

 

I do think the CDC will take a more conservative approach on this issue than the Israeli government has. When it comes to cruising from US ports, at least for a time, the guidelines may be very different. Now if they would just release those next steps...

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32 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but it seems a Royal ship is going to be sailing with required vaccinations only for those over 16.  They are calling it "fully vaccinated".  In what universe does allowing any number of potentially disease carrying and/or vulnerable children onboard equal fully vaccinated?  Am I interpreting this correctly that there will be children onboard, but they don't need to be vaccinated?  I think so - correct me if I am wrong.

 

This infuriates me on so many levels.  The CEO says they are going to do things 'according to the science".  Baloney.  This is doing things according to the stock price.  It is discriminatory (although I personally support required vaccinations, for the record).  Of all age groups (and I know there are issues with any, I am speaking generally) children are the least likely to follow the appropriate mask wearing and social distancing, especially the younger ones understandably.  In some studies, children have been shown to carry high viral loads in their noses and are classified as 'super spreaders".  Other studies disagree with that conclusion, with my conclusion being that we don't really know the answer to that yet. 

 

This just strikes me as wrong on so many levels.  I know that generally speaking, if children get sick they are sometimes asymptomatic or get mild symptoms, but not always the case.  But if they do get sick, what does this mean for quarantining, as well as their ability to spread it throughout the ship even to the vaccinated passengers/crew as no vaccine is 100% effective.

 

Am I the only one concerned about this?

 

 

Concerned yes.  Thought this was already discussed in several other threads.  There are studies underway for younger children.  AZ told me they expect 12+ approval this summer.

Impossible to vaccinate the under 16 group without an approved vaccine.

If anyone is not comfortable sailing with this group then two possibilities.  Children will not be allowed until vaccinated or stay home.

Not worth worrying about at this point.

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This "children/vaccine" issue will become a major point of contention and debate for the cruise industry.  Until vaccines are available for this age group.  A ship cannot be all-in for vaccinated passengers and crew if unvaccinated children are allowed to board.  Ports will have restrictions on this too.  I believe that parents with children might just need to find other vacation choices (like Disney World) for the next year or two.  Nothing against children on cruises.  But a vaccination policy if enacted to cruise needs to be 100%,

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

I n the short term we would only be comfortable on a cruise if everyone is vaccinated.

 

I do think the CDC will take a more conservative approach on this issue than the Israeli government has. When it comes to cruising from US ports, at least for a time, the guidelines may be very different. Now if they would just release those next steps...

I do agree the CDC may enforce way stricter rules.  Let's hope so (although I wish they could get going on things!)

 

But to those who say basically why should I care my response is that we are talking about the same CEO here, which would imply same philosophy.  And say what you will, but this is in no way based on the science as he advertises he will do things.  If it were based on the science, no one would be allowed onboard unvaccinated, at least at this time.  And to advertise this cruise as "fully vaccinated" is an outright lie.

Edited by phoenix_dream
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4 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

I n the short term we would only be comfortable on a cruise if everyone is vaccinated.

 

I do think the CDC will take a more conservative approach on this issue than the Israeli government has. When it comes to cruising from US ports, at least for a time, the guidelines may be very different. Now if they would just release those next steps...

Jeremiah the CDC has released an outline.  CLIA has not said how they will comply.  Looking at the record of public meetings how many sit downs do you see?

If the cruise lines really want to cruise they need to provide specifics.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but it seems a Royal ship is going to be sailing with required vaccinations only for those over 16.  They are calling it "fully vaccinated".  In what universe does allowing any number of potentially disease carrying and/or vulnerable children onboard equal fully vaccinated?  Am I interpreting this correctly that there will be children onboard, but they don't need to be vaccinated?  I think so - correct me if I am wrong.

 

This infuriates me on so many levels.  The CEO says they are going to do things 'according to the science".  Baloney.  This is doing things according to the stock price.  It is discriminatory (although I personally support required vaccinations, for the record).  Of all age groups (and I know there are issues with any, I am speaking generally) children are the least likely to follow the appropriate mask wearing and social distancing, especially the younger ones understandably.  In some studies, children have been shown to carry high viral loads in their noses and are classified as 'super spreaders".  Other studies disagree with that conclusion, with my conclusion being that we don't really know the answer to that yet. 

 

This just strikes me as wrong on so many levels.  I know that generally speaking, if children get sick they are sometimes asymptomatic or get mild symptoms, but not always the case.  But if they do get sick, what does this mean for quarantining, as well as their ability to spread it throughout the ship even to the vaccinated passengers/crew as no vaccine is 100% effective.

 

Am I the only one concerned about this?

 

 


The article that I read said that Royal had no comment on children under 16. My guess they haven’t made a decision.

Edited by dkjretired
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I plan on being on board the Apex April of 2022 with my 11 and 13 year old daughters. I got my first vaccination on Sunday. I obviously want my kids vaccinated when the time comes. If they don’t have a vaccination in time for my kids I still plan on being on board. If it scares you then the obvious choice is for you to find another vacation option. If the rules state no kids then I will just simply comply with a refund. 

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I had the same reaction at first but isn't the goal for nobody to get seriously ill.   I assume everyone is going to be tested negative within 72 hrs of boarding including kids.   From what I currently understand even vaccinated people can still carry the virus, and subsequently test positive and be asymptomatic or have mild symptoms.   I also understand that it's rare in kids to get seriously ill as well.   I can understand how restricting to adult only would be very difficult for RC.

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57 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

I n the short term we would only be comfortable on a cruise if everyone is vaccinated.

 

I do think the CDC will take a more conservative approach on this issue than the Israeli government has. When it comes to cruising from US ports, at least for a time, the guidelines may be very different. Now if they would just release those next steps...

I don't know.

The requirements that they have already announced line up with much of the CDC mandates.  In addition to vaccination required, there will need to be a negative test prior to boarding, masks and social distancing will be required.  Additional restrictions, according the RCG, will be announced in the near future.  I would not be surprised to see those also align with CDC.  Dedicated medical facilities.  The ability to quarantine in cabins. Arrangements with visited ports for evacuation and the like (the basics of port visits not health related have already been announced by Greece and Cyprus). 

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Phoenix, please don't confuse safety with 100% risk reduction. If everyone except children under 16 is vaccinated (with or without masks and other safety precautions, which are still important now with continued spread), it becomes a numbers game - how many children under 16, how many "under protected" individuals. Even with vaccine mandates, the number of "under protected" individuals will NEVER be 0. That's part of the point of herd immunity.

If you demand 100% risk reduction for Covid, you may never leave your house again!

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I don't think a long term vaccination requirement is realistic. However, at first, they have zero room for error. If another Princess type situation occurs they are doomed. I could see a vaccine requirement lasting a few months while numbers are monitored and mitigation plans are proven effective. 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

I don't think a long term vaccination requirement is realistic. However, at first, they have zero room for error. If another Princess type situation occurs they are doomed. I could see a vaccine requirement lasting a few months while numbers are monitored and mitigation plans are proven effective. 

I think that is a good take.

 

All cruise lines need to be super diligent--far more than they will likely need to be in a year or less.  Just one case with a quarantined ship, or a diversion for an evacuation due to COVID, would be blasted over every media outlet.  And with millions reticent (or totally resistant) to cruising already, ti could be the death knell for much of the industry.

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2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

This "children/vaccine" issue will become a major point of contention and debate for the cruise industry.  Until vaccines are available for this age group.  A ship cannot be all-in for vaccinated passengers and crew if unvaccinated children are allowed to board.  Ports will have restrictions on this too.  I believe that parents with children might just need to find other vacation choices (like Disney World) for the next year or two.  Nothing against children on cruises.  But a vaccination policy if enacted to cruise needs to be 100%,

 

I think you have identified one of the key issues, restrictions imposed by the ports.  It may not be up to the CDC or other US scientists to decide what's safe.  The cruise lines may have to impose stricter requirements if that's what the countries they visit require.

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I really don't think it's going to be as much of an issue as everyone here is going crazy over.  Why not just wait and see instead of working yourself into a frenzy?  Are people so bored that you are going around looking for things to get angry over? 

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29 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

I really don't think it's going to be as much of an issue as everyone here is going crazy over.  Why not just wait and see instead of working yourself into a frenzy?  Are people so bored that you are going around looking for things to get angry over? 

Everybody here??  Worked into a frenzy?  Not me and the responses I have seen from others are quite normal in the course of typical Cruise Critic conversation on an important issue involved in resuming cruising.

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There will still be mask mandates for all passengers, including under 16. What's needed from Israel has nothing to do with here in the U.S., so stop worrying about something we have no control over.

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I watched the video Miaminice shared, where Richard Fain says he doesn’t know if vaccinations will be required. If you think they should be of all people who are able to be vaccinated, write his office and let him know. Herd immunity should protect the few who can’t be vaccinated. 
I’m signing up for a transatlantic this year, but if it turns out vaccinations aren’t required, we’re cancelling and will fly across. I’m getting an airline ticket with my miles as a sad back up. Fingers crossed. 

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On 3/2/2021 at 5:17 PM, upwarduk said:

People on the Royal board are interpreting it as Adult only cruises.

 

Wrong.

 

Kids [under 16] will undergo PCR tests 72 hours before sailing and before boarding.

 

The first cruises out of Israel will be 3 days cruises to Nowhere....

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17 minutes ago, dani negreanu said:

 

Wrong.

 

Kids [under 16] will undergo PCR tests 72 hours before sailing and before boarding.

 

The first cruises out of Israel will be 3 days cruises to Nowhere....

That will be a good way to start getting things going.  Baby steps first....

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