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Will TAs open up with a UK USA corridor, as both as leading way with vaccination


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Read yesterday that USA will have enough vaccines for everyone by end May, presume first dose only .  UK is the only other major country vaccinating at a similiar rate likely to (and actually is having) have a real  impact  this side of summer.

 

If this happens and  even first dose vaccination have the impacts we are seeing in UK elderly,  then perhaps the only sensible  overseas travel corridors will be UK-USA only two (major)  countries where most people will have had at least one dose . Should you book your TA now

 

Obviously  CDC will have to make a radical re-evalution of cruises

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3 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Read yesterday that USA will have enough vaccines for everyone by end May, presume first dose only .  UK is the only other major country vaccinating at a similiar rate likely to (and actually is having) have a real  impact  this side of summer.

 

If this happens and  even first dose vaccination have the impacts we are seeing in UK elderly,  then perhaps the only sensible  overseas travel corridors will be UK-USA only two (major)  countries where most people will have had at least one dose . Should you book your TA now

 

Obviously  CDC will have to make a radical re-evalution of cruises

 

I was thinking that myself, as the plan is that all adults in the UK will have been offered their first dose by 31st July and maybe over 40s their 2nd dose by mid September. If similar progress is made in US then the 7 day max cruise length could be eased?

 

We are booked on a QM2 cruise in September TA + USA and Canada, I think that it will be cancelled and would rather know sooner rather than later so that I can get the deposit refunded.

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I think the earliest public health data point we will get on this is 17 May, when the UK is supposed to announce both how the post covid 'roadmap' is progressing, and what is planned for cruises and other international travel. [if all goes well, the UK roadmap ends lockdown restrictions on 21 June].

 

The US is currently lagging the percentage of 'shots in arm' relative to the UK, but I am hopeful that the infection numbers will continue to trend down on both sides of the Atlantic. 

 

From what I have been seeing of a couple of the vaccine tracking sites, both Canada and the EU are lagging severely on vaccinations, so I am certain that that has an impact on planning and scheduling the restart of cruises [with the PVSA no way for short Brooklyn round trips; Southampton to EU ports may look risky]. I would not be surprised to find Cunard introduces a 100% vaccinated or survivor policy [as discussed in multiple other threads].

 

Would EU ports still be too risky even with all passengers vaccinated?

 

Could Cunard rejigger the QM2 schedule to sail an entire summer of nothing but transatlantic and British isle cruises? [looks like the Channel Islands are off limits for this year]. I would not mind replacing Netherlands, Belgium and Normandy stops with UK port visits - but how true would that be of other passengers?

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I am sure that a lot of us would like to know what will be planned and permitted from the summer onwards. However there are so many unknowns - what will the real percentage of over 40s vaccinated be by say the end of July? What will the impact of new variants be? What will the real case numbers be given that being vaccinated largely prevents serious illness and death but does not guarantee you can't still be infected and also does not guarantee you won't be infectious. What will the need be for on board life in terms of hygiene and other measures so that the risks are low enough to largely prevent local outbreaks on the ship, both for passengers and crew. What will potential ports of call have in place as 'rules' for passengers on arriving cruise ships - will individual ports allow people to visit freely off the ship on their own? Will they allow organised shore trips, or not allow them at all?  Will it be safe enough on board to allow social activities such as ballroom dancing, captain's receptions, people filling the Commodore Club and loosening their hold on distancing rules after a few drinks. WIll being vaccinated be enough to prevent outbreaks even when people are closer than 1 metre on board. Will people be able to mix tables during meals?  Will the buffet reign back the rule of not serving yourself? So many questions that the cruise lines, including Cunard, will have to contemplate and come up with an operating plan that will be certain enough to avoid outbreaks even if most or all on board are vaccinated - and also prevent situations occuring that would cost more outgoings than the income from those passengers who have paid for their cruise.  I expect that the senior managers, captains, and financial managers will already be spending a significant number of hours thinking the options through, but also taking into account the constantly changing landscape of the covid case statistics and vaccination statistics across the broad range of countries that comprise where passengers might book from and where the ship might call during the various itineraries - what a complex nightmare for the managers - and always we, as pessngers, want to know exactly what the rules are so we can make plans for our bookings!

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I would have thought one of the main flies in the ointment is the F.O. no cruise advice for travellers. Until it's lifted,  any personal, non cruise company backed travel insurance for UK passengers will be voided.

 

When the restart gets going, I  think there is a significant number of die hard Cunard clients who want to get onboard and will be more than happy to comply with new rules and regs., even to the extent of any initial cruises to nowhere. Taking into consideration the probable reduction of numbers onboard, hopefully some sort of start up programme can be put together to get the ball rolling.

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Logic says open up cruises or holidays in vaccinated countries first.

 

Victoria is right , it all depends on the  CDC and FCO advice,  both seem to be cautious and sometimes slow to change mind in choice of where and what is safe or risky.

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Do the US virgin islands count as USA , are they included in US vaccination programme.  If yes to both could be a stop in a US cruise to the SUN NY , Down east coast, US virgin  islands  back. 

 

Perhaps  Cunard could have QM doing TAs, the other queens based one in US one in UK. Have schedules such that they could do seemless transfers for those who wanted more than a TA

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38 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Do the US virgin islands count as USA , are they included in US vaccination programme.  If yes to both could be a stop in a US cruise to the SUN NY , Down east coast, US virgin  islands  back. 

 

Perhaps  Cunard could have QM doing TAs, the other queens based one in US one in UK. Have schedules such that they could do seemless transfers for those who wanted more than a TA

A round trip from NYC to the USVI and back to NYC, with no foreign port calls would not satisfy the PVSA.  While one way transportation from the mainland US to the USVI is allowed under the PVSA, any round trip starting and ending in a US port must contain at least one foreign port.  If this were a continuation of a transatlantic, so the cruise either started or ended in the UK, then it would work.  However, it would have to be the same ship doing the TA and the cruise to the USVI.  Once you involve two ships, they are separate cruises, and therefore the NYC to USVI would not be legal.

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15 hours ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

 

I was thinking that myself, as the plan is that all adults in the UK will have been offered their first dose by 31st July and maybe over 40s their 2nd dose by mid September. If similar progress is made in US then the 7 day max cruise length could be eased?

 

We are booked on a QM2 cruise in September TA + USA and Canada, I think that it will be cancelled and would rather know sooner rather than later so that I can get the deposit refunded.

 

Well we jumped before we were pushed and have transferred our 28 night September / October cruise on QM2 TA + USA and Canada to QM2 Sydney to Dubai March 2022 29 nights. It actually works out £200 less per cabin and is 1 night more but the flights v to/from Southampton will add extra cost.

 

We will book another TA + USA and Canada cruise in future years when they are released.

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Instead of the US Virgin Islands, what about Bermuda? I know that's doable from NY. A round trip to Bermuda was a long time mainstay in cruising from NY.

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1 hour ago, Mudhen said:

Instead of the US Virgin Islands, what about Bermuda? I know that's doable from NY. A round trip to Bermuda was a long time mainstay in cruising from NY.

Doable, once Bermuda opens for cruise ships.  Borders not opening until 1 July.

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10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

A round trip from NYC to the USVI and back to NYC, with no foreign port calls would not satisfy the PVSA.  While one way transportation from the mainland US to the USVI is allowed under the PVSA, any round trip starting and ending in a US port must contain at least one foreign port.  If this were a continuation of a transatlantic, so the cruise either started or ended in the UK, then it would work.  However, it would have to be the same ship doing the TA and the cruise to the USVI.  Once you involve two ships, they are separate cruises, and therefore the NYC to USVI would not be legal.

Isn't U.S Virgin Island part of the so called continuous territory area of U.S immigration control? Which includes, Canada, Mexico, Caribbean and even as far as coast of Iceland or close to Republic of Ireland? For what that statement is worth in the context of cruising.

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7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Borders not opening until 1 July

How do you know that is the date it will happen or is just that a your best guess?

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1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

How do you know that is the date it will happen or is just that a your best guess?

Gee, don't know, went to the Bermuda website.

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1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

Isn't U.S Virgin Island part of the so called continuous territory area of U.S immigration control? Which includes, Canada, Mexico, Caribbean and even as far as coast of Iceland or close to Republic of Ireland? For what that statement is worth in the context of cruising.

What?  USVI is a US territory.  Canada, Mexico and Caribbean are part of the WHTI (Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative) that loosens the documentation requirements for US and Canadian citizens to travel to most countries in the Western Hemisphere.  US immigration (CBP) has no jurisdiction in these countries, nor Iceland or Ireland.  The US does have an agreement to allow CBP to clear a flight from Ireland to the US at the gate in Ireland, as does the US and Canada for cruise ships in Vancouver.  These are separate agreements for the convenience of both countries' citizens, not part of any "continuous territory".  No idea where you got that idea.

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11 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

What?  USVI is a US territory.  Canada, Mexico and Caribbean are part of the WHTI (Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative) that loosens the documentation requirements for US and Canadian citizens to travel to most countries in the Western Hemisphere.  US immigration (CBP) has no jurisdiction in these countries, nor Iceland or Ireland.  The US does have an agreement to allow CBP to clear a flight from Ireland to the US at the gate in Ireland, as does the US and Canada for cruise ships in Vancouver.  These are separate agreements for the convenience of both countries' citizens, not part of any "continuous territory".  No idea where you got that idea.

I have always been under the impression you have to travel pretty far to be considered to have left the USA. That time spent in Mexico and Canada is taken from your 90 ESTA admission to the USA and that travelling to Mexico/Canada or even maybe into Caribbean areas you are not technically considered to have left the USA?

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14 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

I have always been under the impression you have to travel pretty far to be considered to have left the USA. That time spent in Mexico and Canada is taken from your 90 ESTA admission to the USA and that travelling to Mexico/Canada or even maybe into Caribbean areas you are not technically considered to have left the USA?

The VWP (Visa Waiver Program) is what allows you to enter the US, the ESTA is merely a "pre-clearance" form.  You do leave the US when someone on a visa waiver travels to Mexico, Canada, or Cuba, but because in the case of Mexico and Canada much of this travel is not documented (unmanned border crossings), it is difficult to regulate, so travel to those countries do not stop the clock on your 90 days.  If, however, you apply for a visa to enter the US, travels to Mexico or Canada would be considered as outside the US, if there were a time limit on the visa.

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19 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

I have always been under the impression you have to travel pretty far to be considered to have left the USA. That time spent in Mexico and Canada is taken from your 90 ESTA admission to the USA and that travelling to Mexico/Canada or even maybe into Caribbean areas you are not technically considered to have left the USA?

I think you are confusing the VWP and US Border Jurisdiction. 

 

Under the VWP, certain short side trips beyond US borders are allowed under the 90 days VWP.

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13 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

I think you are confusing the VWP and US Border Jurisdiction. 

 

Under the VWP, certain short side trips beyond US borders are allowed under the 90 days VWP.

Yes, this also allows for multiple entries into the US, without having to apply for a multiple entry visa.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The VWP (Visa Waiver Program) is what allows you to enter the US, the ESTA is merely a "pre-clearance" form.  You do leave the US when someone on a visa waiver travels to Mexico, Canada, or Cuba, but because in the case of Mexico and Canada much of this travel is not documented (unmanned border crossings), it is difficult to regulate, so travel to those countries do not stop the clock on your 90 days.  If, however, you apply for a visa to enter the US, travels to Mexico or Canada would be considered as outside the US, if there were a time limit on the visa.

But if I spend 3 months in Canada after 60 days in USA. I can be considered to have overstayed my 90 days period can't I?

 

So what happens in terms of cruising and the CDC orders on b2b crossings and the need for a test when entering the country. They won't be lifted until till at least Nov 1st 2021. Though I personally think that will be extended in 2022. I am pretty sure CPB (U.S immigration) will be able to track cruising patterns on arriving people at the port. Will we have problems in our 26 night QM2 Soton-NYC/Anthem NYC to NYC/NYC stay/QM2 NYC to Southampton crossing departing November 14th? In terms of the 7 day sail order or any need for negative tests to enter the country at any point?

Edited by ace2542
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26 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

I think you are confusing the VWP and US Border Jurisdiction. 

 

Under the VWP, certain short side trips beyond US borders are allowed under the 90 days VWP.

Yes you have put it better than me. Though this is a law school exam question to be fair isn't it.

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1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

Yes you have put it better than me. Though this is a law school exam question to be fair isn't it.

Not really, I knew the answer but looked up the appropriate website to make sure. 

Trips to Canada, Mexico, or nearby islands 

 

If you are admitted to the United States under the VWP, you may take a short trip to Canada, Mexico, or a nearby island and generally be readmitted to the United States under the VWP for the remainder of the original 90 days granted upon your initial arrival in the United States. Therefore, the length of time of your total stay, including the short trip, must be 90 days or less. See the CBP website. Citizens of VWP countries* who reside in Mexico, Canada, or a nearby island are generally exempted from the requirement to show onward travel to another country* when entering the United States. Learn more on the CBP website.

 

 

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3 hours ago, ace2542 said:

But if I spend 3 months in Canada after 60 days in USA. I can be considered to have overstayed my 90 days period can't I?

 

So what happens in terms of cruising and the CDC orders on b2b crossings and the need for a test when entering the country. They won't be lifted until till at least Nov 1st 2021. Though I personally think that will be extended in 2022. I am pretty sure CPB (U.S immigration) will be able to track cruising patterns on arriving people at the port. Will we have problems in our 26 night QM2 Soton-NYC/Anthem NYC to NYC/NYC stay/QM2 NYC to Southampton crossing departing November 14th? In terms of the 7 day sail order or any need for negative tests to enter the country at any point?

Yes.  If that is your situation, I think a B-2 tourist visa may be better (costs more, though) than the VWP.

 

The CDC requirements and CBP have nothing in common, and really won't track individuals from ship to ship.  As far as the seven day rule, that is per ship, so since you are changing ships twice, that clears that.  You will need to be tested on the QM2 for arrival in US.  For testing before the Anthem cruise, your test on the QM2 will likely suffice,  if you are leaving on Anthem right away.  Then after your NYC stay, you would need to be tested again.  Currently, once you leave Anthem in NYC, you have to quarantine for 3 days and then obtain another test.  But let's face it, that is a good way in the future, so no telling what travel restrictions will be in place at that time.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes.  If that is your situation, I think a B-2 tourist visa may be better (costs more, though) than the VWP.

 

The CDC requirements and CBP have nothing in common, and really won't track individuals from ship to ship.  As far as the seven day rule, that is per ship, so since you are changing ships twice, that clears that.  You will need to be tested on the QM2 for arrival in US.  For testing before the Anthem cruise, your test on the QM2 will likely suffice,  if you are leaving on Anthem right away.  Then after your NYC stay, you would need to be tested again.  Currently, once you leave Anthem in NYC, you have to quarantine for 3 days and then obtain another test.  But let's face it, that is a good way in the future, so no telling what travel restrictions will be in place at that time.

Thanks for this reply. Canada is not my travel plans but I thought I would put that up as an example. And FWIW I would never get a B-2  I don't think. I am only in my 40s and can use VWP. A denial of B-2 would trigger denial of ESTA possibly for years to come but don't ask me why but I have heard it does.

 

I am sure by the time August comes for final payment date a lot of this will have changed. But as things stand, we leave on Anthem the afternoon/evening of arrival on QM2. Ok so we would have to quarantine in the hotel for 3 days upon arrival back to NYC - we have 5 days NYC in the package, so we would have 2 days doing tourist stuff-. Or we would be taken a more secure quarantining location? How would we go about getting testing before boarding QM2 for return journey? And of course we would be hanging our hats on the ship(s) having adequate testing onboard. Something I personally remain skeptical about.

Edited by ace2542
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