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Things that make you go "hmmm." If a patient is in hospice care with only weeks to live, and Covid-19 is discovered, the cause of death is Covid-19. If a person dies in a car accident and Covid-19 is discovered, the cause of death is Covid-19. But if a person receives a Covid-19 vaccine and later dies of something else, the vaccine isn't to blame. OK, sure. 🙄 How stupid do they think the public is?

FYI I am not anti-vaxx, my wife just got her first shot and I'm waiting to be notified that I'm eligible for mine. But I think it's dishonest to ascribe any deaths related to Covid as being caused by it, while simultaneously inferring that when vaccinated people die, the vaccine played no part. Give me a break!

 

 

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1 hour ago, mek said:

Schools might require it along with the other vaccines they are required to get.

Are parents willing to home school their kids if a Covid vaccine is mandatory like other vaccines that are mandatory to attend in person school?

 

That would be a very interesting discussion.

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Also, please don't be so quick to condemn or criticize people who don't agree with scientists immediately. I give the scientific community great deference, but you have to admit they sometimes change their minds. For about a year now, we've been hearing that 6' of social distancing is the minimum. The other day, I heard Dr. Fauci say that actually 3' would be OK. Yet last year, anyone who questioned the orthodoxy of the 6' rule would have been laughed at and called a 'science denier.'

I understand that science can and should update its guidance based on empirical evidence. Fine. Just don't tell me anyone who doubts what they say on Day 1 is foolish, because on Day 365 (or perhaps sooner) the skeptic will be vindicated.

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1 hour ago, Mariketa said:

I mean, if we're talking "directly" caused, then the number of people who have died of COVID without any "indirect" factors involved is only 6% of the total reported deaths. So, are we picking and choosing what we want to talk about, or are we applying the same rules across the board?

BINGO. 

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Posted (edited)

My hospital's employee vaccination rate is around 50%.

 

Most who I've talked to, that have declined the shot, have said there is a 99.8% survival rate so why bother?

Edited by ToroAzul
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1 hour ago, mek said:

Schools might require it along with the other vaccines they are required to get.

They might, they might not. They certainly won't be requiring a vaccine until it has FDA approval and not just an EUA. 

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Just now, ToroAzul said:

My hospital employee vaccination rate is around 50%.

 

Most who I've talked to, that have declined the shot, have said there is a 99.8% survival rate so why bother?

People keep forgetting this fact. For the majority of people in the world Covid isn't even a real concern (the lockdowns sure are though). It's good that we're getting vaccines to those who most need it first though. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sky616 said:

None of my kids are getting it.

Though nice have on hand if ever needed in Future, but unless changes happen effecting more children do not ever see it needed/used even at lower Influenza level Vaccines

Edited by ONECRUISER
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2 hours ago, cured said:

Moderna just announced that they have started trials on children 6 months to 11 in the US and Canada. The first children have been vaccinated. It won't be long now for a children's vaccine.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/health/children-vaccinated-moderna-covid-19-trial-bn/index.html

J&J starting inoculating 6 months and older in Dallas a week or so ago.

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45 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Who is dictating that anyone in this country get the vaccine? As far as I know, at this point in time, NO ONE is being dictated to get the vaccine so that dispels the first part of your comment.

 

Why do you consider the mRNA vaccines rushed? They have been ten years in development. mRNA technology is nothing new. The fantastic element of mRNA vaccines is that they can VERY EASILY be programmed to include a new virus or variant. These vaccines we have now with Moderna and Pfizer can be "tweeked" in weeks to accommodate the variants.

 

I have not followed anything about the J&J vaccine other than it uses older traditional technology for development.

 

This directive from the CDC explains mRNA vaccines......

Understanding mRNA vaccines

The J&J vaccine is a "tweaked" version of their very successful Ebola vaccine.  It is not mRna, but a more "traditional" adenovirus vaccine.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sky616 said:

Nope, will never cruise again.  I'm thinking maybe 60% of the population will get the poison.  There is no way the mandate would stay past a  year or two.  It would be the end of cruising with the losses that they've had already and the losses from the people who won't get it. We love to cruise and so do my kids but there's plenty of other things to do.  Not being a lab rat for a virus with a 99.6% survival rate. 

You are showing your misguided misinformation by using the terminology "poison". You have absolutely no credibility for me with your comments. You are showing your _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _. (Let's play "Wheel of Fortune". You figure it out!)

 

I don't think your percentage of survival is correct but I never did hold any credence in the skewed numbers that have been reported. Surviving can be a real difficult road too. There are long haulers who I have no doubt wish there was a vaccine when they were battling Covid. I'll bet they wish they had that vaccine upon looking down the nose of a life that will be no where near as robust as they had before. Covid SUCKS!

 

I will avoid this virus at all costs. I'm fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine and I'm ready to go out there and do all the things I did before, including cruising when it starts up again.

 

You may find you will be limited in many things you may want to do in life. Vaccination is a ticket back to normal. Having said that, NO ONE is mandating you to be vaccinated.

Edited by coffeebean
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Mapleleafforever said:

They might, they might not. They certainly won't be requiring a vaccine until it has FDA approval and not just an EUA. 

Pfizer has announced that they plan to submit their application for full approval in April.

Edited by not-enough-cruising
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mariketa said:

........... I do not think the vaccine is as effective as we're being lead to believe, not even the flu vaccine is more than 45-50% effective and that's been in the works for decades, so I do think outbreaks on ships are going to be a thing, same as the flu..........

 

Actually, in Israel, where they are using the Pfizer vaccine exclusively, the efficiency rating in real life is actually either the same or better than the efficacy rating was in the trials.

 

As Moderna is also an mRNA vaccine, using the same technology for development, I'm hoping Moderna manufacturers will be able to make the same claim as Pfizer with real life efficiency. I am so hopeful for these vaccines to get us out of this pandemic with SAFE herd immunity.

 

As for the flu vaccine, that uses the the older traditional type of vaccine development. The flu vaccine has very poor efficacy compared to the mRNA vaccines so that is like comparing apples to cantaloupes,  VW to Cadillac, IMHO. There is no comparison to flu vaccine vs the new technology mRNA vaccines.

 

In case you haven't heard, these mRNA vaccines have been in development for ten years. These mRNA vaccines are also being developed for Cancer treatment.

Edited by coffeebean
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17 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Here. Use this link. The number is now 1600 but very small in relationship to the number of vaccines given. 
 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

Over 92 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 8, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 1,637 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.

 

Directly from the page.

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1 hour ago, Sky616 said:

Why?

Why are those 75 corrections officers happy? Because they are not going to die of Covid. They are going to have an excellent chance of not needing hospitalization if they do contract Covid. There is also evidence that vaccinated people will not have any of the long haul side effects of Covid. I heard one of the expert doctors on an news cast say that. THAT is very encouraging news for those who are vaccinated.

 

Yup.....I'd say those folks who agree to the vaccine are very happy.

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19 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The J&J vaccine is a "tweaked" version of their very successful Ebola vaccine.  It is not mRna, but a more "traditional" adenovirus vaccine.

I feel there's a bit more trust in the more traditional vaccines than the gene therapy ones. Just getting that from the people I have been talking to in my day to day life. 

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12 minutes ago, joshgates said:

Over 92 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 8, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 1,637 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.

 

Directly from the page.

Thanks for this updated news. 

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16 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Also, please don't be so quick to condemn or criticize people who don't agree with scientists immediately. I give the scientific community great deference, but you have to admit they sometimes change their minds. For about a year now, we've been hearing that 6' of social distancing is the minimum. The other day, I heard Dr. Fauci say that actually 3' would be OK. Yet last year, anyone who questioned the orthodoxy of the 6' rule would have been laughed at and called a 'science denier.'

I understand that science can and should update its guidance based on empirical evidence. Fine. Just don't tell me anyone who doubts what they say on Day 1 is foolish, because on Day 365 (or perhaps sooner) the skeptic will be vindicated.

From listening and reading about that interview, it sounds like the 3ft spacing would have the same level of transmission in children as the 6ft spacing. It found no statistical difference in 3 vs 6 feet in children in school settings. This is the type of studies offer the granularity in guidance that we didn't have before. It is backed up by the other studies are showing that children under 12 years old are less susceptible to being infected. There are a few studies that are looking at nasal development playing a role.

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25 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

You are showing your misguided misinformation by using the terminology "poison". You have absolutely no credibility for me with your comments. You are showing your _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _. (Let's play "Wheel of Fortune". You figure it out!)

 

I don't think your percentage of survival is correct but I never did hold any credence in the skewed numbers that have been reported. Surviving can be a real difficult road too. There are long haulers who I have no doubt wish there was a vaccine when they were battling Covid. I'll bet they wish they had that vaccine upon looking down the nose of a life that will be no where near as robust as they had before. Covid SUCKS!

 

I will avoid this virus at all costs. I'm fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine and I'm ready to go out there and do all the things I did before, including cruising when it starts up again.

 

You may find you will be limited in many things you may want to do in life. Vaccination is a ticket back to normal. Having said that, NO ONE is mandating you to be vaccinated.

I think you and Sky should go in a room and see who comes out.😂

 

I suggest you accept that others have a different opinion than yours. You both have a choice.  That applies to Shy as well. 
 

IMHO

 

M8

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42 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Things that make you go "hmmm." If a patient is in hospice care with only weeks to live, and Covid-19 is discovered, the cause of death is Covid-19. If a person dies in a car accident and Covid-19 is discovered, the cause of death is Covid-19. But if a person receives a Covid-19 vaccine and later dies of something else, the vaccine isn't to blame. OK, sure. 🙄 How stupid do they think the public is?

FYI I am not anti-vaxx, my wife just got her first shot and I'm waiting to be notified that I'm eligible for mine. But I think it's dishonest to ascribe any deaths related to Covid as being caused by it, while simultaneously inferring that when vaccinated people die, the vaccine played no part. Give me a break!

 

 

I understand your POV very clearly. I really want to know the actual cause of death of all those people who died after receiving their vaccinations. The CDC has claimed that the only deaths due to Covid vaccines that can be proven are anaphylaxis that occurs right away after the injection. Other deaths after receiving the vaccine will be extremely difficult to prove that the vaccine was actually the direct cause of death.

 

I know I read that on the CDC website. Are we being lied to? I honestly do not think so. There is risk with anything anyone puts in their body. Even contaminated food can kill you. This Covid vaccine is a risk I am so welcome to take. The reward certainly outweighs the risk for me. 

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44 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

.......The other day, I heard Dr. Fauci say that actually 3' would be OK. Yet last year, anyone who questioned the orthodoxy of the 6' rule would have been laughed at and called a 'science denier.'........

 

Dr, Fauci said 3 feet looks to be sufficient for children is school for in person learning. That is not for adults going to the grocery store or to any other indoor venue. Personally, if I had any loved ones of school age, I would still prefer they be separated by 6 feet. I can only assume the new directive from Dr. Fauci takes into consideration that children do not get severe symptoms from Covid. That is just an assumption and you know what "they" say about assumptions.

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1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

I understand your POV very clearly. I really want to know the actual cause of death of all those people who died after receiving their vaccinations. The CDC has claimed that the only deaths due to Covid vaccines that can be proven are anaphylaxis that occurs right away after the injection. Other deaths after receiving the vaccine will be extremely difficult to prove that the vaccine was actually the direct cause of death.

 

I know I read that on the CDC website. Are we being lied to? I honestly do not think so. There is risk with anything anyone puts in their body. Even contaminated food can kill you. This Covid vaccine is a risk I am so welcome to take. The reward certainly outweighs the risk for me. 

Thanks for admitting that, just please realize that everyone is different and to some the risk isn't worth it. To some the risk of the vaccine (unknown) is worse than the risk of Covid itself (known). People will come around but it will take time. As more people get vaccinated and the vaccines are indeed proven without a doubt to be completely safe more will want to take it. If in the high risk group though people should take it as soon as you can. 

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44 minutes ago, ToroAzul said:

My hospital's employee vaccination rate is around 50%.

 

Most who I've talked to, that have declined the shot, have said there is a 99.8% survival rate so why bother?

Gee. The survival rate keeps ticking upward with every passing comment on this forum. LOL. As I said before, surviving may not be a bed of roses either. There are some really nasty after effects for those who survive Covid. How about a double lung transplant for starters?

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1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

Dr, Fauci said 3 feet looks to be sufficient for children is school for in person learning. That is not for adults going to the grocery store or to any other indoor venue. Personally, if I had any loved ones of school age, I would still prefer they be separated by 6 feet. I can only assume the new directive from Dr. Fauci takes into consideration that children do not get severe symptoms from Covid. That is just an assumption and you know what "they" say about assumptions.

Yes, it was in reference to children, I do believe. However, as you're a veteran of these comment boards, you are no doubt aware that a lot of people still refuse to cruise if there are unvaccinated children aboard, because "kids can still transmit the virus." Yes, but aren't likely to. That's my point. Too many people are demanding 100% guarantees, and that's never going to happen.

6 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I understand your POV very clearly. I really want to know the actual cause of death of all those people who died after receiving their vaccinations. The CDC has claimed that the only deaths due to Covid vaccines that can be proven are anaphylaxis that occurs right away after the injection. Other deaths after receiving the vaccine will be extremely difficult to prove that the vaccine was actually the direct cause of death.

 

I know I read that on the CDC website. Are we being lied to? I honestly do not think so. There is risk with anything anyone puts in their body. Even contaminated food can kill you. This Covid vaccine is a risk I am so welcome to take. The reward certainly outweighs the risk for me. 

Agreed. That's why I plan to receive the vaccine. Heck, I just Googled to see if I could qualify in Florida since we own property there (but we rent it out, I don't actually live there, even seasonally).

My point was to show the glaring disparity in how deaths related to (but not caused by) Covid are treated vs deaths of people who've been vaccinated. The statistics need to be treated equally, and they aren't.

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