Vaccine Requirement News

[ONECRUISER]

3 hours ago, cured said:

👍 Same here.

 

The powers to be around here are having a heck of a time convincing people that the J&J vaccine is not inferior to the mRNA vaccines.  We are a university town and are pretty heavy in pharma companies in the area. The mRNA is definitely the overwhelmingly desired vaccine.  There is a constant campaign going to tell people "the best vaccine is the vaccine you can get."  My husband snagged an appointment for the J&J the day he became eligible but then the next day was able to make an appointment for one of the mRNAs. He quickly canceled the J&J. Now we have all had at least the first dose of Pfizer.  It is pretty much the same for everyone out here. I only know one person who got the J&J. Everyone else has either the Moderna or Pfizer.  

Had 9 Hospitals, Pharmacy's and Counties contact me for my Vaccine within 11 days. Only one, a Rural County offered J&J. State is using that mostly for Inner Cities & Homeless along with Rural people and Home Bound's. No followup for second dose required with other Vaccines 

Edited March 17, 2021 by ONECRUISER

[ONECRUISER]

6 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Oh, the same businesses that won't enforce a mask mandate?  They're going to put someone at the door and make everyone show they've been vaccinated?  Highly doubt it's going to happen.

 

Cruise lines have two reasons to require vaccines...

1) The government (any government) might require it for them to be in business to start with or to visit.

2) They need to battle the PR issue of appearing as "floating petri dishes".  

Agree, also longer wait to start back up shorter period of requiring Masks/Vaccines

[little britain]

P&O Cruises has said that anyone wanting to take its cruises around the British Isles this summer will need to be vaccinated first.

 

Saga Cruises and Virgin Voyages in the US have made similar moves recently.

 

 

[Charles4515]

6 hours ago, Heymarco said:

Experts are saying mid 2022 for younger children.

Pfizer and Moderna plan to have their vaccines approved for 12 and older in June. I have read younger children, 6 months to 12, later 2021. 

[A&L_Ont]

10 hours ago, Heymarco said:

Not Royal as there is no vaccine for kids. You’ll have better luck with a non family line such as Virgin or one of the smaller firms.

 

10 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

The vaccine for kids is in trials by at least three manufacturers.  By the time Royal restarts sailing which is looking to be late summer at the earliest kids might be able to get the jabs. The vaccines will be the same as adults are getting. They might have to change the amount in a dose but they might not have to. The reason the are not giving the vaccines to children now is they were not in the original trials. 

 

9 hours ago, Heymarco said:

Experts are saying mid 2022 for younger children.

 

3 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Pfizer and Moderna plan to have their vaccines approved for 12 and older in June. I have read younger children, 6 months to 12, later 2021. 

Moderna announced yesterday that is literally just started a study of their vaccine on 6,000 children 6 months to 12 years in the US and Canada. I would think that this age group would require more study time.

The 12-17 year studies started in December with Pfizer and Moderna and have not yet been finalized. The adults took 6 months approximately, so one could suspect the same for the 12-17 year olds. That would be around May if timelines were comparable, along with positive results. 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[jean87510]

9 hours ago, cured said:

👍 Same here.

 

The powers to be around here are having a heck of a time convincing people that the J&J vaccine is not inferior to the mRNA vaccines.  We are a university town and are pretty heavy in pharma companies in the area. The mRNA is definitely the overwhelmingly desired vaccine.  There is a constant campaign going to tell people "the best vaccine is the vaccine you can get."  My husband snagged an appointment for the J&J the day he became eligible but then the next day was able to make an appointment for one of the mRNAs. He quickly canceled the J&J. Now we have all had at least the first dose of Pfizer.  It is pretty much the same for everyone out here. I only know one person who got the J&J. Everyone else has either the Moderna or Pfizer.  

that's funny.  In my town and area in NJ, the j&j is the sought after one especially now since spring break is coming up.  There is a 2 week delay apparently in delivery since the 1st batch went fast.  On a FB town site that I follow, there were school staff trying to get j&j only.  I have friends who find appointments for seniors and others in need for vaccines in NJ for free and they are commenting that people are asking them to just get the appointments for J&J.  I should note that the people asking for just J&J are not seniors or disabled, they are primarily school staff.  NJ has opened up more groups so its been a little difficult getting vaccine appointments especially when people book 4 and 5 appointments and don't cancel them. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by jean87510

[DCGuy64]

14 hours ago, tinkertwo said:

How would they know?  There was a case in our town that was accredited to elevator use and I wondered the same thing.  How would you know?   The virus could be on the buttons someone pushed, could be just floating in the air.....or it could be the person you walked by in a hall.  How could you possibly know?

Exactly, how would you know? That's my point entirely. In science, you don't say "well, I'm not sure how he got it, must've been in the elevator, OK that's the answer, the only answer, and the definitive proof of the cause." It doesn't work that way! A person who presents with Covid symptoms could've picked it up any number of ways. What do we do? Require people to literally wipe down EVERY SURFACE THEY TOUCH in order to avoid contamination? Walk around in plastic suits? And what about the risks to the immune system? Dr Fauci last year cautioned people not to spend too much time indoors, because lack of contact with any bacteria actually harms the immune system (yes, harms, you read that right).

As another poster said, logic has gone out the window with this virus. People aren't thinking rationally, and that's a bigger problem even a 100% effective vaccine won't cure.

[DCGuy64]

16 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

Your mixing the government and private areas. The federal government might not require or force the vaccine, but businesses can require what ever they want.

No, they can't. Businesses can't "require whatever they want." At least, not without a serious possibility of a lawsuit in case the unvaccinated become a protected class. Last year the internet was howling about how HIPAA privacy laws protected people who weren't able to wear masks due to a health condition, which the non mask wearer didn't have to disclose. I'd say businesses can require whatever they want "within reason." There was a lawsuit some years ago where a local Weight Watchers shop didn't want to hire an obese woman in the front office because they thought it reflected badly on their brand. She won. Hypothetically, I could see a whole range of people saying it's discriminatory not to allow unvaccinated people onboard. (Not saying I'd support such a move, just that that kind of thing happens in the real world).

 

[A&L_Ont]

13 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

As another poster said, logic has gone out the window with this virus.

 

The extremes come from both sides of the spectrum.  Some want to wipe everything down, and others want to cough those people's faces. There seems to be little common ground left anymore.

 

Can we just cancel Covid and be done with it. That's one "cancel culture" I could get behind, if it was effective in doing that.

 

 

[DCGuy64]

3 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

The extremes come from both sides of the spectrum.  Some want to wipe everything down, and others want to cough those people's faces. There seems to be little common ground left anymore.

 

Can we just cancel Covid and be done with it. That's one "cancel culture" I could get behind, if it was effective in doing that.

 

 

Absolutely! For every person who belligerently refuses to mask up inside a Costco and acts like a jerk about it, there's somebody out there saying that "everybody" should be required to wear a mask 24/7 because "I don't feel safe." It all comes down to ignorance. Ignorance of the dangers and ignorance of the risks.

[ONECRUISER]

 

Not sure this has been posted here yet, "None of the Major Cruise Lines have yet to make Vaccines a requirement. Carnival Corp's CEO Arnold Donald told Financial Times over the Weekend that the Company probably will not require Cruise passengers to be Vaccinated. However, he did say that they may make it mandatory for the Cruises geared towards seniors."

[coffeebean]

5 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

 

 

Moderna announced yesterday that is literally just started a study of their vaccine on 6,000 children 6 months to 12 years in the US and Canada. I would think that this age group would require more study time.

The 12-17 year studies started in December with Pfizer and Moderna and have not yet been finalized. The adults took 6 months approximately, so one could suspect the same for the 12-17 year olds. That would be around May if timelines were comparable, along with positive results. 

 

Doesn't Pfizer have emergency authorized approval for ages 16+ now?

[cured]

5 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

 

 

Moderna announced yesterday that is literally just started a study of their vaccine on 6,000 children 6 months to 12 years in the US and Canada. I would think that this age group would require more study time.

The 12-17 year studies started in December with Pfizer and Moderna and have not yet been finalized. The adults took 6 months approximately, so one could suspect the same for the 12-17 year olds. That would be around May if timelines were comparable, along with positive results. 

 

I believe you are correct. Moderna said they plan to follow the 7,000 children for a year so final results will not be available till March, 2022 for the 6 months to 12 year age group.

[cured]

4 hours ago, jean87510 said:

that's funny.  In my town and area in NJ, the j&j is the sought after one especially now since spring break is coming up.  There is a 2 week delay apparently in delivery since the 1st batch went fast.  On a FB town site that I follow, there were school staff trying to get j&j only.  I have friends who find appointments for seniors and others in need for vaccines in NJ for free and they are commenting that people are asking them to just get the appointments for J&J.  I should note that the people asking for just J&J are not seniors or disabled, they are primarily school staff.  NJ has opened up more groups so its been a little difficult getting vaccine appointments especially when people book 4 and 5 appointments and don't cancel them. 

It is funny that the sentiments and beliefs around the country are so different. Per some teacher friends, the entire district here was vaccinated with Pfizer or Moderna.  They partnered with a local hospital and set up clinics for the mRNA vaccines just for school staff.

[BSocial]

3 minutes ago, cured said:

It is funny that the sentiments and beliefs around the country are so different. Per some teacher friends, the entire district here was vaccinated with Pfizer or Moderna.  They partnered with a local hospital and set up clinics for the mRNA vaccines just for school staff.

same in my area.  They partnered with local County Health vaccine hub. 

[soloadventurer]

1 hour ago, ONECRUISER said:

 

Not sure this has been posted here yet, "None of the Major Cruise Lines have yet to make Vaccines a requirement. Carnival Corp's CEO Arnold Donald told Financial Times over the Weekend that the Company probably will not require Cruise passengers to be Vaccinated. However, he did say that they may make it mandatory for the Cruises geared towards seniors."

 

P&O Cruises has said that anyone wanting to take its cruises around the British Isles this summer will need to be vaccinated first. 

Travellers will have to prove that they have had two coronavirus jabs to take the trips which depart from June.

[ArthurUSCG]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

No, they can't. Businesses can't "require whatever they want." At least, not without a serious possibility of a lawsuit in case the unvaccinated become a protected class. Last year the internet was howling about how HIPAA privacy laws protected people who weren't able to wear masks due to a health condition, which the non mask wearer didn't have to disclose. I'd say businesses can require whatever they want "within reason." There was a lawsuit some years ago where a local Weight Watchers shop didn't want to hire an obese woman in the front office because they thought it reflected badly on their brand. She won. Hypothetically, I could see a whole range of people saying it's discriminatory not to allow unvaccinated people onboard. (Not saying I'd support such a move, just that that kind of thing happens in the real world).

 

You were referring to customers coming into the place of business. Private businesses can require what ever they want, they might be dealing with litigation but they can still require what ever they want.  Example, a local bar has a "No Colors" requirement, referring to gang or biker clubs. They did have to fight lawsuits but in the end the business won, and ever since the new requirement went into affect, they have been more profitable and have expanded.

For employees, it varies by state. For "right to work" states, often the owner can require anything as long as it is across the board and if you don't comply, you can be terminated. This is where other state that are often pro union provide more protection for the employees, often there is a reasonable accommodation protection. Where if an employee is unable to accommodate the new requirement, then both the employee and the employer have to meet in good faith to come up with  a reasonable accommodation. For the vaccine requirement, it could be  100% telework, change in job or position to allow for reduced or zero interaction with other employees, etc. This is often done thru the HR department with respecting HIPAA using medical professionals to guide the discussion while allowing no one else within the company to know the medical condition.

[ArthurUSCG]

1 hour ago, ONECRUISER said:

 

Not sure this has been posted here yet, "None of the Major Cruise Lines have yet to make Vaccines a requirement. Carnival Corp's CEO Arnold Donald told Financial Times over the Weekend that the Company probably will not require Cruise passengers to be Vaccinated. However, he did say that they may make it mandatory for the Cruises geared towards seniors."

Family based cruise lines are in for the hardest time. If they require 100% vaccination, then they cut off the customer base they have spent years growing. I think the results of the RCL May cruise requiring vaccinations for everyone 16+ will be guiding the industry going forward.

Also this is not a cruise line only decision, the countries that the cruise lines which to dock at hold the trump card.

[smokeybandit]

They should only require those 65+ to get vaccinated since that's the group most at risk.

 

 

[jean87510]

7 minutes ago, cured said:

It is funny that the sentiments and beliefs around the country are so different. Per some teacher friends, the entire district here was vaccinated with Pfizer or Moderna.  They partnered with a local hospital and set up clinics for the mRNA vaccines just for school staff.

In this neck of the woods, the teachers unions are pretty powerful.  My feeling is overall, I think anyone who wants it now, should get it.  And if they dont, then that's ok also.  I don't think anyone should be forced to get something they aren't comfortable with.  I was very nervous before my first dose and actually panicked afterwards.  Deep down I knew I would need to protect myself and others and this is what overcame my fear and panic.  I don't condemn anyone for being afraid and wanting to wait.  

[cured]

4 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

No, they can't. Businesses can't "require whatever they want." At least, not without a serious possibility of a lawsuit in case the unvaccinated become a protected class. Last year the internet was howling about how HIPAA privacy laws protected people who weren't able to wear masks due to a health condition, which the non mask wearer didn't have to disclose. I'd say businesses can require whatever they want "within reason." There was a lawsuit some years ago where a local Weight Watchers shop didn't want to hire an obese woman in the front office because they thought it reflected badly on their brand. She won. Hypothetically, I could see a whole range of people saying it's discriminatory not to allow unvaccinated people onboard. (Not saying I'd support such a move, just that that kind of thing happens in the real world).

 

As long as businesses provide reasonable accomodations, they are well within ADA regulations.  For instance, offering curbside pickup is a reasonable accomodation if you are forbidding maskless people to enter the store.

 

Right now, the unvaccinated are not a protected group unless they have a documented medical reason not to receive the vaccine. 

[ONECRUISER]

23 minutes ago, soloadventurer said:

 

P&O Cruises has said that anyone wanting to take its cruises around the British Isles this summer will need to be vaccinated first. 

Travellers will have to prove that they have had two coronavirus jabs to take the trips which depart from June.

As said Major Cruise Lines, yet to be seen and IF do how long will last start up

[DCGuy64]

19 minutes ago, ArthurUSCG said:

You were referring to customers coming into the place of business. Private businesses can require what ever they want, they might be dealing with litigation but they can still require what ever they want.  Example, a local bar has a "No Colors" requirement, referring to gang or biker clubs. They did have to fight lawsuits but in the end the business won, and ever since the new requirement went into affect, they have been more profitable and have expanded.

For employees, it varies by state. For "right to work" states, often the owner can require anything as long as it is across the board and if you don't comply, you can be terminated. This is where other state that are often pro union provide more protection for the employees, often there is a reasonable accommodation protection. Where if an employee is unable to accommodate the new requirement, then both the employee and the employer have to meet in good faith to come up with  a reasonable accommodation. For the vaccine requirement, it could be  100% telework, change in job or position to allow for reduced or zero interaction with other employees, etc. This is often done thru the HR department with respecting HIPAA using medical professionals to guide the discussion while allowing no one else within the company to know the medical condition.

I agree with you, absolutely. I was merely pushing back against the notion that businesses can require whatever they want. Not without consequences, is my point.

You make excellent points about reasonable accommodation and I agree with you. That's the way to go. I read this morning where Iceland will allow travelers who are vaccinated (or recently recovered from Covid) to enter without quarantine. I'd argue that is a reasonable accommodation, for instance.

[DCGuy64]

3 minutes ago, cured said:

As long as businesses provide reasonable accomodations, they are well within ADA regulations.  For instance, offering curbside pickup is a reasonable accomodation if you are forbidding maskless people to enter the store.

 

Right now, the unvaccinated are not a protected group unless they have a documented medical reason not to receive the vaccine. 

Agreed, I was just pointing out that a broad statement like "businesses can require what they want" has some obvious, if unstated, caveats to it.

[Charles4515]

33 minutes ago, ONECRUISER said:

As said Major Cruise Lines, yet to be seen and IF do how long will last start up

Right now momentum is swinging to requiring vaccination at restart. I am not predicting they will just saying that is the way the wind is blowing.  The CDC requirements and foreign government requirements will be part of the restart. All the major cruise lines will do the same thing.