The Debbie Downers have been right all along

[KirkNC]

1 minute ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

 

Don't the cruise lines see to it that their crew has all required inoculations for travel around the world?  I've always assumed that to be the case.

Seems like it would work much the same for this virus.

They probably have just required it in the past, maybe they actually gave out shots at their facilities in Indonesia and the Philippines, I honestly don't know.  The CV vaccine is different due to its availability versus the world wide demand.  I don't know if a corporate entity can get their hands on any yet.

[AncientWanderer]

5 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

They probably have just required it in the past, maybe they actually gave out shots at their facilities in Indonesia and the Philippines, I honestly don't know.  The CV vaccine is different due to its availability versus the world wide demand.  I don't know if a corporate entity can get their hands on any yet.

 

Access to the vaccine is an interesting question.  Especially since the ships are registered in various places.  I know certain industries here in the U.S. have been given priority supplies in order to keep everyone safe, but if an industry is kind of "a man without a country," who the heck knows.

[idiebabe]

6 hours ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

Maybe they will by a out side contractor .

I think you're right!  All the Cruise Lines have a Plan in place and must know that they can get the Vaccine if they need to Vaccinate Staff and Crew who haven't been Vaccinated in their own Countries.  RCL has two Ships planning on Sailing in June and other Cruise Lines have also required Crew and Passengers be Vaccinated.   I saw this yesterday with regards to NCLH.  

 

NCLH releases a list of accepted vaccine brands for crew and vaccination updates | Crew Center (crew-center.com)

 

 

[AncientWanderer]

9 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

I think you're right!  All the Cruise Lines have a Plan in place and must know that they can get the Vaccine if they need to Vaccinate Staff and Crew who haven't been Vaccinated in their own Countries.  RCL has two Ships planning on Sailing in June and other Cruise Lines have also required Crew and Passengers be Vaccinated.   I saw this yesterday with regards to NCLH.  

 

NCLH releases a list of accepted vaccine brands for crew and vaccination updates | Crew Center (crew-center.com)

 

 

 

 

Well, that's awesome.  It does say they will be vaccinated onboard, if they aren't already.

Very good news!

[Mary229]

37 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

I think you're right!  All the Cruise Lines have a Plan in place and must know that they can get the Vaccine if they need to Vaccinate Staff and Crew who haven't been Vaccinated in their own Countries.  RCL has two Ships planning on Sailing in June and other Cruise Lines have also required Crew and Passengers be Vaccinated.   I saw this yesterday with regards to NCLH.  

 

NCLH releases a list of accepted vaccine brands for crew and vaccination updates | Crew Center (crew-center.com)

 

 

This is great news.  It looks like I will be sailing next spring.  This summer is touch and go but maybe by late fall they will be operating normally in the Caribbean

[VMax1700]

44 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

 

 

Well, that's awesome.  It does say they will be vaccinated onboard, if they aren't already.

Very good news!

I don't read it that way.

It says if the crewmember has not been vaccinated using the listed approved vaccines, then they are not to get another vaccines as the one used may eventually be accepted (approved).  Otherwise a waiting period (ie Quarantine) until they can be vaccinated again with an approved vaccine.

This section is in "quotes" and would appear to be NCH statement.

"For any crew member who has already received a vaccination not indicated in the accepted vaccination list above, please do not get re-vaccinated, the one you received may eventually be accepted. If not, then we will mandate a waiting period until an individual can be safely and effectively re-vaccinated with an NCLH accepted vaccine" NCLH said.

 

But this section is not in "quotes" and would appear to be editorial comment.

 If one of these vaccines is not available in your home country, then the crew must be willing to receive the vaccine on board once they join the ship.

 

As the entire NCLH letter is not reproduced, then it is possible that they will receive shots onboard, but only after quarantining. (maybe).

 

[AncientWanderer]

1 hour ago, VMax1700 said:

I don't read it that way.

It says if the crewmember has not been vaccinated using the listed approved vaccines, then they are not to get another vaccines as the one used may eventually be accepted (approved).  Otherwise a waiting period (ie Quarantine) until they can be vaccinated again with an approved vaccine.

This section is in "quotes" and would appear to be NCH statement.

"For any crew member who has already received a vaccination not indicated in the accepted vaccination list above, please do not get re-vaccinated, the one you received may eventually be accepted. If not, then we will mandate a waiting period until an individual can be safely and effectively re-vaccinated with an NCLH accepted vaccine" NCLH said.

 

But this section is not in "quotes" and would appear to be editorial comment.

 If one of these vaccines is not available in your home country, then the crew must be willing to receive the vaccine on board once they join the ship.

 

As the entire NCLH letter is not reproduced, then it is possible that they will receive shots onboard, but only after quarantining. (maybe).

 

 

 

I didn't read the "waiting period" portion to be a quarantine period, but more so to be suggesting nobody will have to get a second vaccine until it's medically appropriate to receive one.  I imagine some crew members would be hesitant to have two sticks, when some people are afraid of even one.

And, of course, I'm taking at face value that the portion outside the quotes is accurate information.  

In any case, the link to the article that @idiebabe so kindly provided is there at post #278, for those who might want to take a close look.

[kevingastreich]

On 3/17/2021 at 1:22 PM, AllenF said:

Let me start by saying I travel for work and from Dec. 2019 till today  ( Just flew back from Key Largo mini vacation) counting connections I have flown 72 times in 2020. It was great in April thru August did not miss the crowds. The last few times the planes have been full.  I traveled at the peak of the sweet and sour sniffles spring and fall of 2020. I work in the Nuclear Industry my travel has been from Taiwan to Chicago,  Miami and a few places in-between I was in Taiwan Dec 2019 when this 1st started and returned in Nov. 2020 where I had to do a 2 week quarantine Taiwan has had very little Covid but they did sound the alarm in late 2019. I have taken 9 Covid test all negative they were work required to have site access. Also at plant outages over a 1000 people come in from all over to work and we had to wear mask etc etc. Now a little about myself I am 57 and this past June 14th 2020 while playing Golf I had a heart attack only died for about a minute my buddy revived me. I spent 2 days in Hospital after having a stent put in. I went back to work on the 18th. I did not even know I had heart disease I walk 4 to 5 times a week was walking when I had the big one. Oh yeah borderline diabetic so with all my traveling Covid should have killed me according to the Debbie downers. While I am not down playing the loss of life from this outbreak of FLU alot of those who died were just like me had pre existing conditions except maybe a little older some who died were already in pretty bad shape. Most people survive (99%) when they have caught it unless they are very old the percentage goes down but then again just like me they have pre existing conditions some of them know about them some don't. Funny I have not heard of anyone dying of Cancer, Heart disease, diabetes etc but Covid is sure killing everybody well except in Chicago gun shots are still killing a few on week ends. Last week I did get my 1st vaccine shot I really did not want to cause I never get the regular flu shot but with my traveling for work and the fact I have to go back to Taiwan in June (that 2 week quarantine was worse than my heart attack) I am hoping by then with the vaccine I will not need to do that again cause I watched everything on Netflix twice during those 2 weeks. Bottom line at my age alot of stuff can kill me but I am not going to stop living cause I might die....hell were all gonna die. If you are worried and have concerns or pre existing conditions then by all means stay home cause it makes my traveling much easier 🙂 

 

You have a good attitude.  Sorry to hear about your heart attack.

[HappyInVan]

What are the chances that life will return to normal after vaccination?

 

Similar to North America, Israel had a bad winter. Covid cases per day peaked in January, deaths in February.

 

By late February, they had vax 50% of the population (70% of the adults) with at least one dose. Five weeks later, their case and death rates are same as in November 2020. Today, they have vax 58% of the population; >80% of adults. This is the max until they vax the kids.

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/israel

 

Public facilities in Israel are reopening. The digital vax passport is a key component. Quite necessary since covid has not disappeared in Israel.

 

Currently, Israel is 46 cases per 100k population, over 14 days. Compare with un-vaccinated South Korea, 14 cases over 14 days. EU's requirement for unrestricted entry is <25 cases over 14 days per 100k.

 

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021/02/02/covid-19-council-updates-recommendation-on-travel-restrictions-from-third-countries-into-the-eu/

 

Debbie says, “Vaccinations are an important tool. But, the end game is zero covid or close to zero.” Until then, the passport is the only way to resume public life with few restrictions. Cruisers take note!

 

BTW, travellers to Israel will still require tests and quarantine.

 

https://il.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information/

 

[idiebabe]

15 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

What are the chances that life will return to normal after vaccination?

 

It is evidenced by some of the Posts written here and on other Threads that some will never mentally return to normal!  Everyone waited for the Vaccine and how great life will be once we get it and how we can get back to normal.  However,  that isn't good enough for some now even after getting their Vaccines.  The paranoia of other strains that may or may not be covered under this Vaccine, reluctance to go to Restaurants, Arenas, etc. that don't Mandate Vaccinated Only, etc. and all the other worries of the "what ifs" will prevent some from ever returning to a mental state of normal.   

 

AllenF's post is very good and spot on and written by someone who has not lived his life hunkered down and in fear (before the Vaccine) but lived his life during this Pandemic.  He has a great attitude!

 

[HappyInVan]

Cheerleading doesn't work against covid. You have 550k dead, Has never worked. Clear minds and hard work will do wonders.

 

Anxiety? Cut yourself off from social media. Nasty people and stupid rumours. Be calm.

 

Listen only to the doctors and scientists, and people who tell the truth. Do your own research. There's tons of good stuff on the internet. Be wise.

 

Hope that you will only sail on vaccinated cruises, and wear masks. Be safe.

 

It ain't over yet. Normal...

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-australia/australia-enjoys-easter-with-no-new-local-coronavirus-cases-idUSKBN2BR03L

 

 

[KroozNut]

16 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Cheerleading doesn't work against covid. You have 550k dead, Has never worked. Clear minds and hard work will do wonders.

 

Anxiety? Cut yourself off from social media. Nasty people and stupid rumours. Be calm.

 

Listen only to the doctors and scientists, and people who tell the truth. Do your own research. There's tons of good stuff on the internet. Be wise.

 

Hope that you will only sail on vaccinated cruises, and wear masks. Be safe.

 

It ain't over yet. Normal...

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-australia/australia-enjoys-easter-with-no-new-local-coronavirus-cases-idUSKBN2BR03L

 

 

 

Just when one begins to feel a little bit better about the whole COVID situation after more than a year, and sees that proverbial 'light at the end of the tunnel' growing a tad brighter.. Debbie jumps back in and ends all that crazy thinking..🙄

Edited April 6, 2021 by KroozNut

[rkacruiser]

3 minutes ago, KroozNut said:

 

Just when one begins to feel just a little bit better about the whole COVID situation after more than a year, and sees that proverbial 'light at the end of the tunnel' growing a tad brighter.. Debbie jumps back in and ends all that crazy thinking..🙄

 

I did see a cartoon that showed that the "Fat Lady" was getting her shot.  

[KroozNut]

1 minute ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I did see a cartoon that showed that the "Fat Lady" was getting her shot.  

 

But the question is, will she sing while getting the shot? 😁

[rkacruiser]

2 minutes ago, KroozNut said:

 

But the question is, will she sing while getting the shot? 😁

 

And, if the song is Sailing that would be good news indeed.  😀

[zelker]

Me thinks Debbie Downer needs to read THIS!! 

 

CDC Says Cruises Possible by Mid-Summer as Tensions Boil Over (msn.com)   🙏

[idiebabe]

10 minutes ago, zelker said:

Me thinks Debbie Downer needs to read THIS!! 

 

CDC Says Cruises Possible by Mid-Summer as Tensions Boil Over (msn.com)   🙏

And I think they need to have faith in Pfizer!   Don’t forget they are the  makers of Viagara!  If they can raise the dead, they can save the Living!  😂

Edited April 7, 2021 by idiebabe

[Hlitner]

I feel the need to rant and it is about the CDC.  I will quickly repeat that I spend a lot of years in the government healthcare world and until, COVID, put the CDC and the NIH on a pedestal.  While I still have the utmost respect for the NIH, by opinion of the CDC has reached the point where the mods would not let me say what I really think :(.  Suffice it to say that I think the CDC has become a follower rather then a leader (and you can guess who they follow).  Little that now comes out of the CDC is about science ("I have a feeling of impending doom" is not science but that is what we get from Dr. Walensky) and I have no idea what on earth those CDC folks are even thinking.  Come on folks...just today the CDC issued a new statement that COVID does not normally spread via hard surfaces.  Most of us knew that 6 months ago...but they have finally caught up to some of the science.

 

So gettiIng to cruises, if any cruise line (and Crystal has already done it) says they will cruise with 100% vaccinated passengers and crew...what is the problem.  Even Dr. Walensky said those who are fully vaccinated are safe, do not get sick, and do not spread COVID (she later walked some of this back before there was more hedging).   Why can't Crystal simply use US Ports today?  If other lines want to go to a 100% mandatory vaccination policy then there is no reason they could not sail in and out of US ports tomorrow morning!  Forget the silly CDC Framework, forget test cruises, etc etc.  If cruise lines want to add unvaccinated kids to the mix then I do think the CDC needs to take a quick look,  

 

But, the CDC does not want to consider any reasonable policy vis-a-vis cruises.  They simply rework their language to maintain the status quo...which is no cruises in or out of US Ports.  There is no science behind this decision...it is simply BS!  

 

What is happening in the US today is interesting.  The public "gets it" and is sick and tired of a CDC (and other government officials) who issue contradictory statements, lies, deceptive policies, etc.  So the people are opening up the country despite the authorities.  Just heard today that Texas, where the Governor has eliminated all statewide restrictions, has had an 18% drop in new COVID cases since the reopening.  President Biden called the reopening of Texas "Neanderthal thinking" but I assume nobody told him that new research shows that Neanderthals were quite smart (obviously smarter then many officials today).   Meanwhile New Jersey, where it is akin to a locked down dictatorship has had a 13% increase in COVID, the highest death rate in the nation, etc. etc.  New Jersey's Governor was asked about this today and made the usual excuses that New Jersey is crowded (I assume he has never been to the pinelands (wide open land) or Houston (quite crowded).

 

So it is time for the CDC to come down off their high horses and let the cruise industry reopen...albeit with reasonable COVID mitigation measures.  The approximate 200,000 Americans who make their living from the cruise industry would be quite happy not to mention their families.  And folks like me could be on a ship instead of heading to Mexico to spend time at a top All Inclusive.

 

Hank

[idiebabe]

5 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I feel the need to rant and it is about the CDC.  I will quickly repeat that I spend a lot of years in the government healthcare world and until, COVID, put the CDC and the NIH on a pedestal.  While I still have the utmost respect for the NIH, by opinion of the CDC has reached the point where the mods would not let me say what I really think :(.  Suffice it to say that I think the CDC has become a follower rather then a leader (and you can guess who they follow).  Little that now comes out of the CDC is about science ("I have a feeling of impending doom" is not science but that is what we get from Dr. Walensky) and I have no idea what on earth those CDC folks are even thinking.  Come on folks...just today the CDC issued a new statement that COVID does not normally spread via hard surfaces.  Most of us knew that 6 months ago...but they have finally caught up to some of the science.

 

So gettiIng to cruises, if any cruise line (and Crystal has already done it) says they will cruise with 100% vaccinated passengers and crew...what is the problem.  Even Dr. Walensky said those who are fully vaccinated are safe, do not get sick, and do not spread COVID (she later walked some of this back before there was more hedging).   Why can't Crystal simply use US Ports today?  If other lines want to go to a 100% mandatory vaccination policy then there is no reason they could not sail in and out of US ports tomorrow morning!  Forget the silly CDC Framework, forget test cruises, etc etc.  If cruise lines want to add unvaccinated kids to the mix then I do think the CDC needs to take a quick look,  

 

But, the CDC does not want to consider any reasonable policy vis-a-vis cruises.  They simply rework their language to maintain the status quo...which is no cruises in or out of US Ports.  There is no science behind this decision...it is simply BS!  

 

What is happening in the US today is interesting.  The public "gets it" and is sick and tired of a CDC (and other government officials) who issue contradictory statements, lies, deceptive policies, etc.  So the people are opening up the country despite the authorities.  Just heard today that Texas, where the Governor has eliminated all statewide restrictions, has had an 18% drop in new COVID cases since the reopening.  President Biden called the reopening of Texas "Neanderthal thinking" but I assume nobody told him that new research shows that Neanderthals were quite smart (obviously smarter then many officials today).   Meanwhile New Jersey, where it is akin to a locked down dictatorship has had a 13% increase in COVID, the highest death rate in the nation, etc. etc.  New Jersey's Governor was asked about this today and made the usual excuses that New Jersey is crowded (I assume he has never been to the pinelands (wide open land) or Houston (quite crowded).

 

So it is time for the CDC to come down off their high horses and let the cruise industry reopen...albeit with reasonable COVID mitigation measures.  The approximate 200,000 Americans who make their living from the cruise industry would be quite happy not to mention their families.  And folks like me could be on a ship instead of heading to Mexico to spend time at a top All Inclusive.

 

Hank

I think this was your best post ever!  100% Agree!  

[Gracie115]

8 hours ago, idiebabe said:

I think this was your best post ever!  100% Agree!  

Ditto.

[terrydtx]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I feel the need to rant and it is about the CDC.  I will quickly repeat that I spend a lot of years in the government healthcare world and until, COVID, put the CDC and the NIH on a pedestal.  While I still have the utmost respect for the NIH, by opinion of the CDC has reached the point where the mods would not let me say what I really think :(.  Suffice it to say that I think the CDC has become a follower rather then a leader (and you can guess who they follow).  Little that now comes out of the CDC is about science ("I have a feeling of impending doom" is not science but that is what we get from Dr. Walensky) and I have no idea what on earth those CDC folks are even thinking.  Come on folks...just today the CDC issued a new statement that COVID does not normally spread via hard surfaces.  Most of us knew that 6 months ago...but they have finally caught up to some of the science.

 

So gettiIng to cruises, if any cruise line (and Crystal has already done it) says they will cruise with 100% vaccinated passengers and crew...what is the problem.  Even Dr. Walensky said those who are fully vaccinated are safe, do not get sick, and do not spread COVID (she later walked some of this back before there was more hedging).   Why can't Crystal simply use US Ports today?  If other lines want to go to a 100% mandatory vaccination policy then there is no reason they could not sail in and out of US ports tomorrow morning!  Forget the silly CDC Framework, forget test cruises, etc etc.  If cruise lines want to add unvaccinated kids to the mix then I do think the CDC needs to take a quick look,  

 

But, the CDC does not want to consider any reasonable policy vis-a-vis cruises.  They simply rework their language to maintain the status quo...which is no cruises in or out of US Ports.  There is no science behind this decision...it is simply BS!  

 

What is happening in the US today is interesting.  The public "gets it" and is sick and tired of a CDC (and other government officials) who issue contradictory statements, lies, deceptive policies, etc.  So the people are opening up the country despite the authorities.  Just heard today that Texas, where the Governor has eliminated all statewide restrictions, has had an 18% drop in new COVID cases since the reopening.  President Biden called the reopening of Texas "Neanderthal thinking" but I assume nobody told him that new research shows that Neanderthals were quite smart (obviously smarter then many officials today).   Meanwhile New Jersey, where it is akin to a locked down dictatorship has had a 13% increase in COVID, the highest death rate in the nation, etc. etc.  New Jersey's Governor was asked about this today and made the usual excuses that New Jersey is crowded (I assume he has never been to the pinelands (wide open land) or Houston (quite crowded).

 

So it is time for the CDC to come down off their high horses and let the cruise industry reopen...albeit with reasonable COVID mitigation measures.  The approximate 200,000 Americans who make their living from the cruise industry would be quite happy not to mention their families.  And folks like me could be on a ship instead of heading to Mexico to spend time at a top All Inclusive.

 

Hank

I also have to agree this is a very good post and well thought out. Your comments about Texas vs New Jersey are right on. In fact the 4 largest and crowded,  metropolitan areas, DFW,  Austin, San Antonio and Houston have experienced the largest drops in positivity rates since ending restrictions in the state. That correlates to also having the highest vaccinated rates. 

[Mary229]

Texas versus New Jersey - well we will see, in Texas our population, even in the cities, is much less crowded.  We have also been in spring since the beginning of March and enjoying outdoor activities daily. Fresh air, sunshine and exercise go a long way for health and pandemic control.  (I am not a mask enthusiast, I go along to get along)

[whogo]

10 hours ago, Hlitner said:

So gettiIng to cruises, if any cruise line (and Crystal has already done it) says they will cruise with 100% vaccinated passengers and crew...what is the problem. 

The problem is there are lying unvaccinated SOB's that will board the ship.

 

Cruises can restart tomorrow for all I care. I live 1,000 miles from the ocean, a sick ship, if such there be, will not be dumping patients in hospitals near me. If my prediction of 2,000,000 covid deaths in the USA by October 15, 2021 is going to prove accurate, we need to average about 7,500 deaths per day. Something has to go dreadfully wrong.

[Hlitner]

26 minutes ago, whogo said:

The problem is there are lying unvaccinated SOB's that will board the ship.

 

Cruises can restart tomorrow for all I care. I live 1,000 miles from the ocean, a sick ship, if such there be, will not be dumping patients in hospitals near me. If my prediction of 2,000,000 covid deaths in the USA by October 15, 2021 is going to prove accurate, we need to average about 7,500 deaths per day. Something has to go dreadfully wrong.

Enjoyed your sarcasm.  If you need a job there is probably one waiting for you at the Public Relations Office of the CDC :).

 

Hank

[KirkNC]

Probably a little too early to declare victory in Texas.

Edited April 7, 2021 by KirkNC