The Debbie Downers have been right all along

[bennybear]

We have hesitancy here around the Astra Zeneca vaccine.  

Edited April 18, 2021 by bennybear

[john2003]

1 hour ago, bennybear said:

We have hesitancy here around the Astra Zeneca vaccine.  

I hope this concern can be addressed. There have been massive numbers vaccinated in the UK with very small problems. I can see there is probably a cohort that it is inappropriate for but we are in danger of tarnishing it for everyone.  Our premier in BC just publicly received it which is great.

[HappyInVan]

Hello!!!

 

Vaccination hesitancy here...

 

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/us/2021/04/16/amid-hesitancy-louisiana-gets-creative-in-vaccine-outreach.html

 

LA has only vax 31% of the population, and they're rolling out the brass bands.

 

“State surveys indicate 40% or more of Louisiana residents are hesitant about getting the vaccine or entirely unwilling to do so. And while Louisiana is administering doses at rates greater than some other Southern states, it remains among the bottom six in vaccinating adults 18 and older, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.”

 

Debbie says that this is perfectly predictable. Might take longer than expected to get to 70% nationally. Until we get the epidemic under control, HHS will maintain the declaration of Public Health Emergency. Hard for the CDC to just drop its Sail Orders!!

 

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/01/31/secretary-azar-declares-public-health-emergency-us-2019-novel-coronavirus.html#:~:text=The emergency declaration gives state%2C tribal%2C and local,in part by Public Health Service Act programs.

 

BTW, let's calm down. We need to find solutions, not fight WW3. Please, don't get excited. I think that a few people are bouncing between hysterical fear and hysterical denial.

 

[Crazy For Cats]

I think a contributing factor on hesitation to get the vaccine comes from the administration.  Dr Fauci states that even once vaccinated you must still mask, maintain social distancing and other lockdown measures.  This goes contrary to the CDC guidelines.  What is the benefit of getting a vaccine if nothing changes for the better?  To be clear I have received my first dose and the second shot is booked.  I only did it so that I can travel.

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Crazy For Cats said:

I think a contributing factor on hesitation to get the vaccine comes from the administration.  Dr Fauci states that even once vaccinated you must still mask, maintain social distancing and other lockdown measures.  This goes contrary to the CDC guidelines.  What is the benefit of getting a vaccine if nothing changes for the better?  To be clear I have received my first dose and the second shot is booked.  I only did it so that I can travel.

You could try you get the vaccine for safety and to get the case counts down to a low enough level that masks and other protective measures are not necessary. We are not there yet. If people do get vaccinated and continue to follow the other recommendations we soon will be in a couple of months.

[OzCanuck]

9 hours ago, Crazy For Cats said:

What is the benefit of getting a vaccine if nothing changes for the better? 

Errrr.... you have a better chance of not dying?

[rkacruiser]

11 hours ago, Crazy For Cats said:

Dr Fauci states that even once vaccinated you must still mask, maintain social distancing and other lockdown measures.

 

What information is required, in my opinion, is data that shows that once one is fully vaccinated, one is not going to be a carrier of the virus and possibly spread that to those who are not vaccinated.  I hope such research is being done to determine this.  

 

The simple answer to this issue is for those who are refusing to accept the vaccine for whatever reasons change their  point of view and consider what is in the best interest of the larger population.  

[margretha]

I thought the point of the vaccine was not the promise of get it and you'll never get Covid. It was get it and the research to date shows you won't get so sick you'll be in the ICU either on a ventilator or on your death bed. The vaccine makes getting it survivable. I thought if 10 of us family members or neighbors got both shots and were quarantined for 2 weeks or whatever the timeline now is and then got together we could toss the masks and hug because we were in a vaccine bubble. But go to the store? Go anywhere outside your bubble? Go on a ship tour into another country and come back? You've been exposed somewhere probably so back to the distancing and masks. In a year we have a vaccine that makes a killer pandemic more like the real flu: the vaccines have shown that people who get the shot(s) and get Covid might get sick but so far haven't died. And that makes a world of difference to me...Until enough people are either in a community bubble (Like the Aussies and New Zealanders) or we have herd immunity which we won't get with hesitancy about shot, even with the vaccine you still get masking and distancing. No magic cure-all. Just a science-based medical thumb in the dike solution to a killer issue.  IMHO...

[HappyInVan]

Good News Good News! Success for the Aussies and Kiwi.

 

https://apnews.com/article/travel-australia-wellington-new-zealand-coronavirus-pandemic-18ac41705d2863b1ad669744e6eeb556

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/20/us-plans-to-boost-do-not-travel-advisories-to-80percent-of-the-world.html

 

Finally, the Ontario and BC governments have read the memo...

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/7771885/covid-random-roadside-checks-travel/

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/motorists-greeted-long-lines-quebec-131941053.html

 

There's a good chance that Canada will be in a good place in a few months.

 

 

[Crazy For Cats]

13 hours ago, OzCanuck said:

Errrr.... you have a better chance of not dying?

We need to understand that some people will make decisions in their perceived best interests.  Depending on their age group and health status they may believe that the potential side effects of the vaccine outweigh the risk of getting and recovering from covid.  
 

[jimmy2x]

17 minutes ago, Crazy For Cats said:

We need to understand that some people will make decisions in their perceived best interests.  Depending on their age group and health status they may believe that the potential side effects of the vaccine outweigh the risk of getting and recovering from covid.  
 

Unfortunately, the effects of COVID do include death or long term debilitating side effects. I may “believe “ that there are little green men on Mars. That doesn’t make it so. 

[AncientWanderer]

3 minutes ago, jimmy2x said:

Unfortunately, the effects of COVID do include death or long term debilitating side effects. I may “believe “ that there are little green men on Mars. That doesn’t make it so. 

 

I've got a daughter-in-law who is young, as fit as a fiddle, and as slim as a reed.  She plans to be vaccinated after they complete their family here soon, because the vaccine is so new.

It's really very hard to argue against her position.

[Crazy For Cats]

38 minutes ago, jimmy2x said:

Unfortunately, the effects of COVID do include death or long term debilitating side effects. I may “believe “ that there are little green men on Mars. That doesn’t make it so. 

I hope you understand that, however slim, death is a risk with any of the vaccines.

[jimmy2x]

567,000 Americans have died. 95% were over the age of 50.  HAL cruisers tend to be on the “mature “ side.  As of Jan 18th, 196 people had died after getting vaccinated. Of these 129 were in nursing homes. These are facts that are easily verified. 
 

I’m old enough to remember polio rightfully scaring the hell out of Americans. Fortunately it was at a time when Americans trusted science and when Jonas Salk developed a vaccine, we all got it. We live now in an age of “information overload “ where any damn fool can develop a following. It is quite true that even the acknowledged experts don’t always get things right at first. But I will continue to follow their recommendations over some self appointed guru posting from his basement. 

[YXU AC*SE]

1 hour ago, Crazy For Cats said:

I hope you understand that, however slim, death is a risk with any of the vaccines.

 

Anecdotally, it is interesting what other sorts of risks we choose to normalize.  Scott.

 

[HappyInVan]

2 hours ago, Crazy For Cats said:

I hope you understand that, however slim, death is a risk with any of the vaccines.

 

Its your body. You can do as you wish. That said, can you get infected and pass it on, with catastrophic results?

 

Public Health deals with infectious diseases. Their advise and mandate is that you should wear a mask around others. Thanks for wearing a mask... for the next 5 years! 👍

[jimmy2x]

Just to clarify, we are booked for 21days on the Nieu Statendam next February. If final payment comes around and assuming that being vaccinated is mandatory, if we are required to wear masks in public spaces I’ll cancel. Just can’t see that being much fun. 

[whogo]

The Debbie Downers have been right all along. "Covid-19 deaths are accelerating, WHO warns, as world records most cases ever in a single week". https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/20/europe/who-global-covid-cases-rise-intl/index.html

 

NIne months to reach the first million deaths, four months for the second million, three months for the third million. I will not be cruising anywhere I want to go any time soon.

 

Note how 567,000 covid deaths in the USA compares to the insurance figures for injuries that YXU AC*SE posted above.

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, whogo said:

The Debbie Downers have been right all along. "Covid-19 deaths are accelerating, WHO warns, as world records most cases ever in a single week". https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/20/europe/who-global-covid-cases-rise-intl/index.html

 

NIne months to reach the first million deaths, four months for the second million, three months for the third million. I will not be cruising anywhere I want to go any time soon.

 

Note how 567,000 covid deaths in the USA compares to the insurance figures for injuries that YXU AC*SE posted above.

One might want to carefully analyze the WHO data.  Much of the increase is due to a surge in India and Brazil where vaccination programs are lagging and the crowded conditions in parts of their cities contributes to the spread of the more contagious variants.  But the countries that have good vaccination programs are doing quite fine as we can see in places like Israel, the US, and some other smaller countries such as the UAE.  

 

The obvious key to controlling COVID are vaccines.  Lockdowns are only minimally effective and probably make up for the flattening of the curve by simply elongating the curve.  Consider that Greece, where they have had a very stringent lockdown in place since last November is now seeing a surge (basically an elongation of the curve) which will hopefully begin to wane as their vaccine program improves.

 

Hank

[HappyInVan]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

The obvious key to controlling COVID are vaccines.  Lockdowns are only minimally effective and probably make up for the flattening of the curve by simply elongating the curve. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-johnson-warns-lockdown-not-vaccines-behind-drop-covid-deaths-2021-04-13/

 

[tosteve1]

NEJM article today...JNJ single dose vaccine 85% effective against severe/critical disease after 28 days. Including South African and Brazilian variants.

Surely there must be some negative spin on this. Debbie?

[rkacruiser]

5 hours ago, tosteve1 said:

NEJM article today...JNJ single dose vaccine 85% effective against severe/critical disease after 28 days. Including South African and Brazilian variants.

Surely there must be some negative spin on this. Debbie?

 

My name is not "Debbie".  No negative spin on this scientific news.  But, as a Johnson & Johnson shareholder:  a negative thought or two on the Company's decision to use that company in Baltimore that had been previously cited by the FDA for improper practices for their decision to produce the J&J vaccine.  (Somebody in the Company who made that decision ought to be updating their resume, in my opinion.)  

[idiebabe]

6 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

My name is not "Debbie".  No negative spin on this scientific news.  But, as a Johnson & Johnson shareholder:  a negative thought or two on the Company's decision to use that company in Baltimore that had been previously cited by the FDA for improper practices for their decision to produce the J&J vaccine.  (Somebody in the Company who made that decision ought to be updating their resume, in my opinion.)  

We thought the same thing that some heads will roll!  We couldn’t believe it especially when we read the Violations such as peeling paint, equipment not cleaned properly, workers not trained properly, plus more.  Pretty Shocking to read that it’s  J&J!  
 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-finds-multiple-problems-baltimore-plant-ruined-j-j-vaccine-n1264830

[HappyInVan]

Rats. I hate it when Debbie Dreadful (DD) is right!

 

Here's the latest from Texas...

 

“We do not at present know the full significance of this variant, but it has a combination of mutations similar to other internationally notifiable variants of concern,” said Texas A&M Chief Virologist Ben Neuman. “This variant combines genetic markers separately associated with rapid spread, severe disease and high resistance to neutralizing antibodies.”

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/22/new-covid-variant-detected-at-texas-am-lab-shows-signs-of-antibody-resistance-and-more-severe-illness-in-young-people.html

 

I don't suppose that TX has a contact tracing, surveillance and surge testing program? Just to see how far this variant has spread?

 

This is what keeps virologists awake at night.

 

“Nevertheless, it highlights the importance of examining the combined effect of multiple mutations as opposed to studying only individual ones, as it is unlikely that any single mutation would lead to complete escape from natural or vaccine-derived immunity.”

 

https://theconversation.com/concerning-coronavirus-mutation-now-found-in-uk-variant-heres-what-you-need-to-know-153248

 

Variant A meets Variant B. Offspring C has the most effective features of the parents. Avoid non-essential travel!

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/two-variants-merge-to-form-first-recorded-recombinant-virus-1.5312679

 

That's why it is highly dangerous to mix vaccinated and unvaccinated people in a social setting; like on a cruise. Sooner or later, the masks come off. Bang!

 

The unvaccinated people can infect the vax pax, The vax pax can infect each other. The vax pax can then infect the unvaccinated on shore where there is another variant. It goes on and on...

 

[VMax1700]

15 hours ago, tosteve1 said:

NEJM article today...JNJ single dose vaccine 85% effective against severe/critical disease after 28 days. Including South African and Brazilian variants.

Surely there must be some negative spin on this. Debbie?

Not a Debbie, as I already have one shot of Pfizer and DW gets her second shot tomorrow.  We believe in the science, but there are side effects and dangers.  However the upside still outweighs the downside.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/texas-woman-hospitalized-after-jj-shot-with-similar-symptoms-blood-clot-cases-2021-04-23/