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The Debbie Downers have been right all along


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1 hour ago, fatcat04 said:

Sorry to be blunt but I've kinda "had it" and have wanted to say this for months. We are all human and I have friends all over the US, Canada, and Mexico. Let's cheer each others victories and not tear each other down for our shared failings, whether personal or political. This disease is personal for many of us, not abstract. It's not like the virus gives a damn where the borders are or to what nation or party it's victims belong. We are better than this. 

This! Thankyou!  I’ve been appalled by some of the negative comments!   I have many good American friends and relatives and don’t understand the animosity of a few.   Our countries have been loyal allies for years along the world’s longest border.    My American aunt thanked my DH when he went to NYC to help the NYPD after 9/11.  Let’s not forget the sacrifice of many people in Gander at that time either.   We’re neighbours,  who should be helping each other not pointing fingers.    We are most definitely better than this!  

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1 hour ago, fatcat04 said:

Sorry to be blunt but I've kinda "had it" and have wanted to say this for months. We are all human and I have friends all over the US, Canada, and Mexico. Let's cheer each others victories and not tear each other down for our shared failings, whether personal or political. This disease is personal for many of us, not abstract. It's not like the virus gives a damn where the borders are or to what nation or party it's victims belong. We are better than this. 

 

Well said.

 

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Sounds like Canada may be partially reopening its border to the States in July. I would recommend caution to our eager travellers, in view of the American government's haste to return life to 'normal'.

 

Check out the vax statistic here...

 

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/01/14/covid-vaccine-distribution-by-state-how-many-covid-vaccines-have-been-given-in-us-how-many-people/6599531002/

 

There's a wide range of vax rates. 8 states exceed 60% of their population. 6 states have less than 40%. Even CA is offering millions of dollars in incentives...

 

https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/05/27/california-offering-cash-awards-totaling-1165m-to-get-vaccinated-1384321

 

Of course, we know that vax people can get infected, often asymptomatic, and infect others. So, be careful. Don't bring more than souvenirs back to Canada.

 

Vaccines offer a high degree of protection (from severe illness) to the 'average' person. But, the protection to senior citizens can vary widely. The most controllable risk factor is your exposure. So, it comes down to the choices you make.

 

Hawaii (pop 1.5m) has lost only 8 lives over the last 14 days, while FL (pop 21m) has lost 774. Even CA (pop 39m) has lost 501 lives. For Canadians, this country has lost only 566 over the last 14 days.

 

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2 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Sounds like Canada may be partially reopening its border to the States in July. I would recommend caution to our eager travellers, in view of the American government's haste to return life to 'normal'.

 

Check out the vax statistic here...

 

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/01/14/covid-vaccine-distribution-by-state-how-many-covid-vaccines-have-been-given-in-us-how-many-people/6599531002/

 

There's a wide range of vax rates. 8 states exceed 60% of their population. 6 states have less than 40%. Even CA is offering millions of dollars in incentives...

 

https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/05/27/california-offering-cash-awards-totaling-1165m-to-get-vaccinated-1384321

 

Of course, we know that vax people can get infected, often asymptomatic, and infect others. So, be careful. Don't bring more than souvenirs back to Canada.

 

Vaccines offer a high degree of protection (from severe illness) to the 'average' person. But, the protection to senior citizens can vary widely. The most controllable risk factor is your exposure. So, it comes down to the choices you make.

 

Hawaii (pop 1.5m) has lost only 8 lives over the last 14 days, while FL (pop 21m) has lost 774. Even CA (pop 39m) has lost 501 lives. For Canadians, this country has lost only 566 over the last 14 days.

 

Once the NHL reaches the Stanley Cup finals, is Canada going to allow the 2 teams to cross the border to compete for the Stanley Cup without 14 day quarantines? Up to now all the teams based in Canada have been playing only in Canada while all the teams based in the USA have been only playing in the USA.

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Just now, ontheweb said:

Once the NHL reaches the Stanley Cup finals, is Canada going to allow the 2 teams to cross the border to compete for the Stanley Cup without 14 day quarantines? Up to now all the teams based in Canada have been playing only in Canada while all the teams based in the USA have been only playing in the USA.

 

Yes, according to CBC News. Special exception. No quarantines, but teams are locked down.

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7 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Yes, according to CBC News. Special exception. No quarantines, but teams are locked down.

I had heard they were working on it, and I expected they would find a way. Is what you heard on the news confirmed, or just speculation?

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39 minutes ago, kazu said:

But the article does say "work is on the way" and that the CBC "has not confirmed".

 

Neither of those sound very definite, thought I do think they will find a way to make it work.

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15 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

But the article does say "work is on the way" and that the CBC "has not confirmed".

 

Neither of those sound very definite, thought I do think they will find a way to make it work.

 

Again, from yesterday

“The federal government is poised to approve a travel exemption for the Stanley Cup playoffs that would allow U.S. teams to enter Canada if they adhere to a strict regimen of daily COVID-19 testing and remain in a bubble that includes team hotels and the arena. 

Multiple federal sources say the exemption would let the winner of the NHL's all-Canadian division and its U.S. opponent cross the border without quarantine during the Stanley Cup semifinals and finals. A formal announcement could come as soon as this week. 

Initial details of the potential travel exemption were first reported by TSN and The Canadian Press.”

I expect we will have a formal announcement shortly this week.

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3 hours ago, KirkNC said:

I know the NHL has been working on this for a while.  If they can’t travel the Canadian team would have to forfeit.

I think the problem is that travelling requires a 14 day quarantine.

 

I would imagine if negotiations between the NHL and Canada fall apart (which I do not think will happen), all games would have to be on one side of the border. If the USA team went to Canada, they would have to quarantine for 14 days before play would start. If the Canadian team crossed the border, they would have to quarantine for 14 days after their return after the playoffs. The second sounds more doable since it would not cause a delay in the playoffs, and also the American team might not even be allowed to cross into Canada.

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3 hours ago, kazu said:

 

 

Again, from yesterday

“The federal government is poised to approve a travel exemption for the Stanley Cup playoffs that would allow U.S. teams to enter Canada if they adhere to a strict regimen of daily COVID-19 testing and remain in a bubble that includes team hotels and the arena. 

Multiple federal sources say the exemption would let the winner of the NHL's all-Canadian division and its U.S. opponent cross the border without quarantine during the Stanley Cup semifinals and finals. A formal announcement could come as soon as this week. 

Initial details of the potential travel exemption were first reported by TSN and The Canadian Press.”

I expect we will have a formal announcement shortly this week.

I also expect it will happen, but as they say it's not a done deal until the fat lady sings. Or for Stanley Cup hockey, maybe it's not a done deal until the players shave their beards.😉

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6 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I also expect it will happen, but as they say it's not a done deal until the fat lady sings. Or for Stanley Cup hockey, maybe it's not a done deal until the players shave their beards.😉

As important as hockey is to Canada, I expect they will work it out.  I know one option discussed was to temporarily relocate the Canadian team to the US, Chicago has been thrown around.

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1 minute ago, KirkNC said:

As important as hockey is to Canada, I expect they will work it out.  I know one option discussed was to temporarily relocate the Canadian team to the US, Chicago has been thrown around.

And baseball is less important, so the TORONTO Blue Jays are now playing in Buffalo.

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Just now, ontheweb said:

And baseball is less important, so the TORONTO Blue Jays are now playing in Buffalo.

I did not know that.  I am sure my Mom did as she is a huge Orioles fan.

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22 hours ago, KroozNut said:

 

Translation: Canada moved to a socialistic healthcare system, and this slow response to the pandemic and vaccine rollout is simply one of the many negative impacts of that really bad decision.

No, Canada followed the capitalist model by selling out to multinationals which then moved production elsewhere.  A socialist system would have set up a crown corporation to produce vaccines in Canada but at a higher cost.  A country of less than 40 million people does not have the economy of scale necessary for competitive prices.

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‘Cases and deaths in the UK are starting to spike. Looks like the Germans and Austrians are right. The Austrians have even banned direct flights from the UK.’

 

This is not true. As of today there are approx 3000 new cases a day in the UK - down from 70000 in January. There were no deaths today. The Indian variant is a concern and is likely to become the dominant variant but the vaccines can deal with it. 40m 1st does have been given and 26m second doses. The total population of the UK is 68m. 

 

 

 

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@Mickb If you haven't already realized, not only has he turned this CC forum into a news clipping service that just creates more clutter, it's only news that fits his narrative. I'm wearing out the scroll wheel on my mouse! 

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1 hour ago, Lido - Lanai said:

@Mickb If you haven't already realized, not only has he turned this CC forum into a news clipping service that just creates more clutter, it's only news that fits his narrative. I'm wearing out the scroll wheel on my mouse! 

I hope you realize that there is a different way with dealing with this. You can choose to ignore a poster. Just hover over his or her icon and you will see the ignore choices come up.

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I noted a comment that US is "acting in haste" in reopening.  That Statement is a total crock that ignores the actual situation here in the USA.  While many countries were trying to figure out how to deal with COVID of thinking they just lock everyone away forever and avoid COVID, the US Government (under Trump and later under Biden) made a very deliberate decision that the only way to deal with COVID was to vaccinate our way out of the Pandemic.  And that is what we have done.  The reality here is that anyone in the USA who wants to be vaccinated can easily get free shots (or shot) without much hassle.  In most places it is now possible to get vaccinated the same day by simply walking into various pharmacies or vaccination centers.  

 

So, there is no haste here in the USA.  For us, the pandemic is essentially over.  Those who want to be protected can get protection (vaccines) and those who prefer to gamble are generally free to not get vaccines and take their chances.  But there is no reason for our country to remain closed other then to mollify folks from some other countries who seem to be suffering vaccine envy.  Countries that do not have an effective vaccine program (Japan would be a great example) have little choice but to remain mostly closed, continue to damage their economy, and speed up their vaccine efforts.   But let us be very clear.  Nothing other then vaccines will end the big COVID problem in nearly every country.  Those countries that have mostly kept COVID out by using lockdowns and border closures have simply bought themselves more time to vaccinate their public.  Countries that thought they could just keep COVID away by closing their doors (like Taiwan) are now finding that you cannot keep a virus out forever.  These countries now understand that without vaccinating their population they will eventually be overwhelmed with COVID infections.

 

As to those who might wonder why the USA, the UK, Israel, UAE, and some other countries have done well with vaccine programs might want to look inwards as to why their countries are not on that short list.  No doubt there are many countries where the cost has been a big issue.  But most Western countries have the money but simply lack the policy or forward thinking governments.  I understand that Trump is not a popular figure around the world but that does not change the facts.  It was Trump who pushed an innovative fast vaccine program (called Operation Warp Speed), it was Trump who put money where his mouth was in terms of vaccines, and it was Trump who insisted that the entire COVID mess likely started at the Wuhan Lab (for which he was trashed worldwide).  Now, a year later, those policies and comments seem a lot more acceptable.  I also think a lot of credit should go to both the UK government and the Israeli government who also saw the wisdom of a major commitment to vaccines.   I am a bit puzzled by the German Government since it was one of their companies (Biontech) that developed one of the best COVID vaccines.  But even today Germany has only fully vaccinated about 11% of their population (many more have received one shot).

 

Hank 

 

Hank

 

Hank

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10 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I noted a comment that US is "acting in haste" in reopening.  That Statement is a total crock that ignores the actual situation here in the USA.  While many countries were trying to figure out how to deal with COVID of thinking they just lock everyone away forever and avoid COVID, the US Government (under Trump and later under Biden) made a very deliberate decision that the only way to deal with COVID was to vaccinate our way out of the Pandemic.  And that is what we have done.  The reality here is that anyone in the USA who wants to be vaccinated can easily get free shots (or shot) without much hassle.  In most places it is now possible to get vaccinated the same day by simply walking into various pharmacies or vaccination centers.  

 

So, there is no haste here in the USA.  For us, the pandemic is essentially over.  Those who want to be protected can get protection (vaccines) and those who prefer to gamble are generally free to not get vaccines and take their chances.  But there is no reason for our country to remain closed other then to mollify folks from some other countries who seem to be suffering vaccine envy.  Countries that do not have an effective vaccine program (Japan would be a great example) have little choice but to remain mostly closed, continue to damage their economy, and speed up their vaccine efforts.   But let us be very clear.  Nothing other then vaccines will end the big COVID problem in nearly every country.  Those countries that have mostly kept COVID out by using lockdowns and border closures have simply bought themselves more time to vaccinate their public.  Countries that thought they could just keep COVID away by closing their doors (like Taiwan) are now finding that you cannot keep a virus out forever.  These countries now understand that without vaccinating their population they will eventually be overwhelmed with COVID infections.

 

As to those who might wonder why the USA, the UK, Israel, UAE, and some other countries have done well with vaccine programs might want to look inwards as to why their countries are not on that short list.  No doubt there are many countries where the cost has been a big issue.  But most Western countries have the money but simply lack the policy or forward thinking governments.  I understand that Trump is not a popular figure around the world but that does not change the facts.  It was Trump who pushed an innovative fast vaccine program (called Operation Warp Speed), it was Trump who put money where his mouth was in terms of vaccines, and it was Trump who insisted that the entire COVID mess likely started at the Wuhan Lab (for which he was trashed worldwide).  Now, a year later, those policies and comments seem a lot more acceptable.  I also think a lot of credit should go to both the UK government and the Israeli government who also saw the wisdom of a major commitment to vaccines.   I am a bit puzzled by the German Government since it was one of their companies (Biontech) that developed one of the best COVID vaccines.  But even today Germany has only fully vaccinated about 11% of their population (many more have received one shot).

 

Hank 

 

Hank

 

Hank

Amen, Amen, Amen!  👏👏👏

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

For us, the pandemic is essentially over.  

 

Hopefully.  However, I think your statement is a bit too broad.  For those of us who are fully vaccinated, the end is in sight.  But, because of those of our fellow citizens, for whatever reasons, are unvaccinated, I think it is premature to say "the pandemic is over".  

 

25 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

it was Trump who insisted that the entire COVID mess likely started at the Wuhan Lab

 

That has not been proven.  In my opinion, even though President Biden has ordered our Intelligence services to "get to the bottom of this", I am not hopeful that where this virus started will ever be proven.  In the meantime, the former President's accusations that the virus came from China has only created more societal issues within our Country as demonstrated by an increase on the attacks on Asia American citizens.  

Edited by rkacruiser
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10 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Hopefully.  However, I think your statement is a bit too broad.  For those of us who are fully vaccinated, the end is in sight.  But, because of those of our fellow citizens, for whatever reasons, are unvaccinated, I think it is premature to say "the pandemic is over".  

 

I am not going to hedge (the current rage) or be agreeable.  I stand by my comment which I think is backed up with facts.  For us, in the USA, the Pandemic is over!  The COVID death rate has already dropped below what we would see in an average flu season and the new infections are under control.  The truth is that just about the only folks now getting COVID are those who have made a CHOICE not to get vaccinated.  While I respect folks who have made the CHOICE not to get vaccinated I also think they are wrong, taking a big personal gamble, and also exercising their rights.  That being said, there is no longer a reason for the rest of us to alter our lives for those who have made the CHOICE to not get vaccinated.  They will live or die with their decision, there is nothing I can do about it, delaying reopening will not change their minds, and that is about life in a democratic republic.

 

For the unvaccinated the risk of COVID continues....but that is completely their own decision.  For the rest of us, life moves on.  Just heard today that Penn State's Beaver Stadium (which seats over 100,000) will be back to 100% of capacity for their games in the Fall.  You might consider we live in a State with a Democratic Governor who has been very cautious with COVID and ordered many restrictions.  But even he realizes that this COVID thing is over and yesterday he lifted nearly all the restrictions in our State.  Asking the country to shut down, cut back on capacity, etc. because 25-30% refuse to take advantage of free vaccines is just folly.   Your comment about "premature" is simply not borne out by the facts.  

 

Hank

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I am not going to hedge (the current rage) or be agreeable.  I stand by my comment which I think is backed up with facts.  For us, in the USA, the Pandemic is over!  The COVID death rate has already dropped below what we would see in an average flu season and the new infections are under control.  The truth is that just about the only folks now getting COVID are those who have made a CHOICE not to get vaccinated.  While I respect folks who have made the CHOICE not to get vaccinated I also think they are wrong, taking a big personal gamble, and also exercising their rights.  That being said, there is no longer a reason for the rest of us to alter our lives for those who have made the CHOICE to not get vaccinated.  They will live or die with their decision, there is nothing I can do about it, delaying reopening will not change their minds, and that is about life in a democratic republic.

 

For the unvaccinated the risk of COVID continues....but that is completely their own decision.  For the rest of us, life moves on.  Just heard today that Penn State's Beaver Stadium (which seats over 100,000) will be back to 100% of capacity for their games in the Fall.  You might consider we live in a State with a Democratic Governor who has been very cautious with COVID and ordered many restrictions.  But even he realizes that this COVID thing is over and yesterday he lifted nearly all the restrictions in our State.  Asking the country to shut down, cut back on capacity, etc. because 25-30% refuse to take advantage of free vaccines is just folly.   Your comment about "premature" is simply not borne out by the facts.  

 

Hank

 

 

 

Well said my friend!

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19 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

In the meantime, the former President's accusations that the virus came from China has only created more societal issues within our Country as demonstrated by an increase on the attacks on Asia American citizens.  

It came from China. Even China admits that although they are trying to blame it on a bat. pangolin or whatever and not the lab where they were actually studying THE VERY virus that took over the world. Reality check is in order Sir.

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