Do current prices ever exceed brochure prices?

[jtwind]

Folks on this forum get great deals on cruises and perks....but they can't tell you where or how.  Forum rules.  Lot's of help.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

for us it’s less about fairness and more about contracts. Our contract with our employer gets you 2-5 weeks off a year guaranteed. But you have to go through the vacation pick system to get it. Which is based on seniority so you may not get your first or second choice. Any other time off is at the discretion of your supervisor which used to only be granted around 30 days ahead. Our employer honors this contract so we should as well. Expecting to get a vacation week approved outside of this system isn’t fair also. It would be unfair for a new employee to get a prime July week off when contract says that the senior guy gets first dibs. It would be unfair to the other coworkers required to pick up the slack because a third person got that week off.

 

It seems very clear that we disagree because we live with two completely different systems.

 

The things you say are far from anything I have heared about here.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

It is more a matter of practicability than fairness.  The purpose of the organization has to take precedence over the ability of each individual to take the the time off desired.

 

Coverage - with regard to skill levels as well as areas of responsibility - has to be maintained.  Co-operation among people whose responsibilities involve covering for each other is essential.  For years, I had to co-ordinate my plans with those of my immediate superior, as I had to cover for him, and I had to require at least two of my three team managers to be present when I was away.  Also, for insurance purposes, every one had to take at least two consecutive weeks off every year.

 

Because most people wanted to take their time between May and October, the planning generally had to start in December and be fairly well set by March.

 

I think that I understand what you say but I still can't see why it's better for the employer if requests for vacation is done late. Early should be better, I think, but I clearly miss something.

[sanger727]

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

It seems very clear that we disagree because we live with two completely different systems.

 

The things you say are far from anything I have heared about here.

if your school had 10 teachers and access to 2 subs; and 3 people wanted to go on a vacation the same week; I would assume you would run into similar issues. And then on top of that, when that week does come one of the other teachers catches the flu. Now you have 10 classroom and 8 teachers. That sacrifices the experiences of the students and puts an unfair burden on the other teachers and administration. Which is why in a scenario where we had 10 teachers and only 2 subs; we would only let one person take a vacation. That would give us an extra person in the event someone retires, quits, gets sick, has to go to training, etc. And the fairest way to determine who out of those ten can take a vacation that week is by seniority. 

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I think that I understand what you say but I still can't see why it's better for the employer if requests for vacation is done late. Early should be better, I think, but I clearly miss something.

The closer to the time that people are away the better.   Changes in staff may come up, work load may vary (perhaps not so much in schools - but likely in every other "industry").  The more - and more in advance-  that peoples' vacation absences are carved in stone, the tougher it is for the organization to accommodate those absences.

[ldubs]

12 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I think that I understand what you say but I still can't see why it's better for the employer if requests for vacation is done late. Early should be better, I think, but I clearly miss something.

 

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The closer to the time that people are away the better.   Changes in staff may come up, work load may vary (perhaps not so much in schools - but likely in every other "industry").  The more - and more in advance-  that peoples' vacation absences are carved in stone, the tougher it is for the organization to accommodate those absences.

 

I think this will vary considerably by type of business or operation.  In my old business I would agree with Sverigecruiser.    We implemented a rule that all vacations be approved and scheduled for the year by mid-Feb with limits on the number who could be out at any given time.   Doing that insured coverage and avoided last minute pile-ups for popular vacation times.   For management staff, no more than 15% could be off at the same time, which required them to preschedule.   No manager every had an issue.    

[sverigecruiser]

6 hours ago, sanger727 said:

if your school had 10 teachers and access to 2 subs; and 3 people wanted to go on a vacation the same week; I would assume you would run into similar issues. And then on top of that, when that week does come one of the other teachers catches the flu. Now you have 10 classroom and 8 teachers. That sacrifices the experiences of the students and puts an unfair burden on the other teachers and administration. Which is why in a scenario where we had 10 teachers and only 2 subs; we would only let one person take a vacation. That would give us an extra person in the event someone retires, quits, gets sick, has to go to training, etc. And the fairest way to determine who out of those ten can take a vacation that week is by seniority. 

 

The number of available subs varies very much from week to week and that's one of the reasons why it's much better if we ask for vacation early. It's much easier to arrange to get a sub if it's done early.

 

We don't know how many subs we have access to until we need them. When someone is sick we try to get a sub, sometimes we can get one but too often we can't. If we arrange for it early we can get a sub and we can also often choose who we want if we do it early.

 

In March last year we had 13 persons directly working with the children at my school and one day 8 of them were sick or had sick children at home. That day we could get ONE sub! That was a tough day!     

[sverigecruiser]

5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The closer to the time that people are away the better.   Changes in staff may come up, work load may vary (perhaps not so much in schools - but likely in every other "industry").  The more - and more in advance-  that peoples' vacation absences are carved in stone, the tougher it is for the organization to accommodate those absences.

 

I still think that early planning is good for the employer.. in Sweden everyone has the right to get at least four weeks vacation during June, July or August and early requests make the planning easier for the employer. So absences carved in stone early help the employer with the planning.

 

It was the same when I was working as a technician at Ericsson. The earlier we asked the better it was. 

[sanger727]

7 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

The number of available subs varies very much from week to week and that's one of the reasons why it's much better if we ask for vacation early. It's much easier to arrange to get a sub if it's done early.

 

We don't know how many subs we have access to until we need them. When someone is sick we try to get a sub, sometimes we can get one but too often we can't. If we arrange for it early we can get a sub and we can also often choose who we want if we do it early.

 

In March last year we had 13 persons directly working with the children at my school and one day 8 of them were sick or had sick children at home. That day we could get ONE sub! That was a tough day!     

Ok, I understand. The difference with my job is that those numbers are set in stone. We can’t get an equivalent to ‘more subs’ with early planning. We also aren’t allowed to let the working numbers drop below a certain point. We would fill the shortage you had in March by having people come in on overtime. But you can’t have people come in on overtime because you granted discretionary leave. And that’s the rub. If we grant discretionary leave early like you describe and then run short on people, the supervisor would get in trouble.

[sverigecruiser]

46 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

Ok, I understand. The difference with my job is that those numbers are set in stone. We can’t get an equivalent to ‘more subs’ with early planning. We also aren’t allowed to let the working numbers drop below a certain point. We would fill the shortage you had in March by having people come in on overtime. But you can’t have people come in on overtime because you granted discretionary leave. And that’s the rub. If we grant discretionary leave early like you describe and then run short on people, the supervisor would get in trouble.

 

I understand that our situations are completely different and that the systems we live with/in are completely different too.

 

In school it's not possible to fill the shortage with overtime but in other places we can use overtime even if someone is away because they were approved vacation early if that is needed.

 

Here the supervisor won't get in trouble for something like that as long as he/she had a plan for it in the beginning.

[sanger727]

12 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

 

 

Here the supervisor won't get in trouble for something like that as long as he/she had a plan for it in the beginning.

In my world there’s no need for the supervisor to create a plan. It’s far easier to simply not grant the time off 😉

 

we do live in very different worlds. But was explaining why it’s not necessarily better for an employee to grant time off early. In my job coming to work is first priority. Granting discretionary time off isn’t a priority so the supervisors have no motivation to try and make it work. 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

In my world there’s no need for the supervisor to create a plan. It’s far easier to simply not grant the time off 😉

 

we do live in very different worlds. But was explaining why it’s not necessarily better for an employee to grant time off early. In my job coming to work is first priority. Granting discretionary time off isn’t a priority so the supervisors have no motivation to try and make it work. 

 

Curious.  What does "discretionary time off" mean for a teacher in Ohio?  Are teacher there allowed to take vacation during the school year?  I'm missing something I'm sure.  

[sanger727]

16 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Curious.  What does "discretionary time off" mean for a teacher in Ohio?  Are teacher there allowed to take vacation during the school year?  I'm missing something I'm sure.  

I’m not a teacher. I was just trying to find common ground with the other poster wjo

was. I work in law enforcement. We have contractually guaranteed scheduled vacations that are chosen by seniority in January for the upcoming year. In terms of the other posters claims that it ‘should’ be better for everyone if vacations were approved a year or two ahead, that would be discretionary time off. Anything outside of scheduled vacations is discretionary time off and only granted 90 days ahead.

[Nebr.cruiser]

53 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Curious.  What does "discretionary time off" mean for a teacher in Ohio?  Are teacher there allowed to take vacation during the school year?  I'm missing something I'm sure.  

I used to teach, in a small town school system, where more or less everybody knew each other.  I could get a few days off now and then if I asked--called personal days or some such term (I've been retired a while).  Since we are such a small town, days off would usually be granted unless there was some striking reason not--such as during parent-teacher conferences or something.

 

For us it was usually to go skiing--and maybe like 4 days a year.  I know, one of the perks of small (*1000 pop. ) towns!  It may not be so easy now.

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

In my world there’s no need for the supervisor to create a plan. It’s far easier to simply not grant the time off 😉

 

we do live in very different worlds. But was explaining why it’s not necessarily better for an employee to grant time off early. In my job coming to work is first priority. Granting discretionary time off isn’t a priority so the supervisors have no motivation to try and make it work. 

 

Here people have the right to get their vacation so a plan must be made. It's easier to create that plan if people ask early.

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

I’m not a teacher. I was just trying to find common ground with the other poster wjo

was. I work in law enforcement. We have contractually guaranteed scheduled vacations that are chosen by seniority in January for the upcoming year. In terms of the other posters claims that it ‘should’ be better for everyone if vacations were approved a year or two ahead, that would be discretionary time off. Anything outside of scheduled vacations is discretionary time off and only granted 90 days ahead.

 

Thanks.  I had not been aware of that term, discretionary time off.  

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, Nebr.cruiser said:

I used to teach, in a small town school system, where more or less everybody knew each other.  I could get a few days off now and then if I asked--called personal days or some such term (I've been retired a while).  Since we are such a small town, days off would usually be granted unless there was some striking reason not--such as during parent-teacher conferences or something.

 

For us it was usually to go skiing--and maybe like 4 days a year.  I know, one of the perks of small (*1000 pop. ) towns!  It may not be so easy now.

 

Thanks.  I was under the impression that teacher's vacations coincided with school breaks.   

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, Nebr.cruiser said:

I used to teach, in a small town school system, where more or less everybody knew each other.  I could get a few days off now and then if I asked--called personal days or some such term (I've been retired a while).  Since we are such a small town, days off would usually be granted unless there was some striking reason not--such as during parent-teacher conferences or something.

 

For us it was usually to go skiing--and maybe like 4 days a year.  I know, one of the perks of small (*1000 pop. ) towns!  It may not be so easy now.

DW teaches in a very small school system, so small that she is the only art teacher in the elementary school. She can take personal days. She asked for one last month for the day after her second vaccine in case she had a flu like reaction. (She ended up going in when she only has a sore arm.)

 

She rarely uses them, sometimes say a half day when there is no other time she can get an appointment with a doctor or dentist. The last time (other than earlier this month) that I remember her asking for a whole day was to go early to Long Island so we could make it to a wedding  rehearsal for one of her sisters. Our son was in kindergarten then (I remember that because he was a "ring bear" at the wedding); he is in his 40s now. She would never take one for something like going skiing, or in her case skating.

[sanger727]

8 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Thanks.  I had not been aware of that term, discretionary time off.  

that may be something unique to my job. Scheduled vacation is entirely different than any other time off for us. My job guarantees very little in time off. We don’t get weekends or holidays off. Your days off can be changed or you can be required to work on them. Your hours can be changed. The only time off we are guaranteed is your scheduled vacation. If you need your anniversary or spouses birthday off, it’s common to take the week as one of your scheduled vacation weeks. Even if you only want the one day off, that’s the only way you can guarantee getting that day off.

[2wheelin]

4 hours ago, sanger727 said:

that may be something unique to my job. Scheduled vacation is entirely different than any other time off for us. My job guarantees very little in time off. We don’t get weekends or holidays off. Your days off can be changed or you can be required to work on them. Your hours can be changed. The only time off we are guaranteed is your scheduled vacation. If you need your anniversary or spouses birthday off, it’s common to take the week as one of your scheduled vacation weeks. Even if you only want the one day off, that’s the only way you can guarantee getting that day off.

Excellent explanation. Thank you for doing this tough job. My daughter is a LEO (currently working the trial of the century in MN) and that “take a week to get a day” thing is really cumbersome. Hard to start a vacation on a Fri or carry over to a Mon morning off.

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

Excellent explanation. Thank you for doing this tough job. My daughter is a LEO (currently working the trial of the century in MN) and that “take a week to get a day” thing is really cumbersome. Hard to start a vacation on a Fri or carry over to a Mon morning off.

 

I'm glad that it's not like that here.

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, sanger727 said:

that may be something unique to my job. Scheduled vacation is entirely different than any other time off for us. My job guarantees very little in time off. We don’t get weekends or holidays off. Your days off can be changed or you can be required to work on them. Your hours can be changed. The only time off we are guaranteed is your scheduled vacation. If you need your anniversary or spouses birthday off, it’s common to take the week as one of your scheduled vacation weeks. Even if you only want the one day off, that’s the only way you can guarantee getting that day off.

 

Very similar to when I was in the fire service.   I don't think I ever asked for time off during a scheduled rotation.   

[Pudgesmom]

Police are not unique in working 365 days a year.

 

My recently retired airline pilot husband would do a vacation bid by seniority every September for the following year.

 

Many years he worked all of the holidays as monthly schedules are also by seniority. He was occasionally able to trade trips with other eligible pilots to get off for special family events. We just learned to tell people we wouldn’t know if we were available until the 21st of any given month for the following month.
 

Surely police and fire have sick leave and someone covers for that.

[Nebr.cruiser]

22 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Thanks.  I was under the impression that teacher's vacations coincided with school breaks.   

Although seen as such, school breaks are not considered part of a teacher's vacation, especially the summer break.  At least where I live, teachers have a nine month (approx.) work year and are paid for those nine months.  We might choose to get our salary divided into 12 segments, so that we have income during the summer,  but we are still paid for 9 months. 

 

Most teacher's don't get actual vacation time, outside of school breaks, except for possibly some personal or discretionary time.  When I took a day or two off that wasn't one of those, I paid for the sub.

 

Our very small school is different than a huge city system, which would be much less flexible.  BTW, we had one art teacher for elementary, Jr. High and High School!

[sverigecruiser]

5 minutes ago, Nebr.cruiser said:

Although seen as such, school breaks are not considered part of a teacher's vacation, especially the summer break.  At least where I live, teachers have a nine month (approx.) work year and are paid for those nine months.  We might choose to get our salary divided into 12 segments, so that we have income during the summer,  but we are still paid for 9 months. 

 

Most teacher's don't get actual vacation time, outside of school breaks, except for possibly some personal or discretionary time.  When I took a day or two off that wasn't one of those, I paid for the sub.

 

Our very small school is different than a huge city system, which would be much less flexible.  BTW, we had one art teacher for elementary, Jr. High and High School!

 

Here we get paid for the whole year. The reason why we can get the whole summer off, Christmas break and some other breaks during the school year is that we work 45 hours a week instead of  40 hours. Over the year we work as much as everyone else.

 

We don't get vacation time outside of school breaks but can still get unpaid vacation other times of the year if we ask early so that the school can arrange for a sub. The only way we can get paid days off outside of school breaks is if we have worked overtime which is very rare but sometimes possible.