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Let the Exceptions Begin!


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Lately, I've been seeing light at the end of the tunnel, as far as international travel for people from the US goes.  But a few days ago, a 4 year old autistic kid was kicked off a plane for not wearing a mask.  The backlash from the press has been bad.  Americans, in general, seem to have a hard time making decisions between 2 bad choices, where one may be far worse than the other, and seem to let emotions get in the way.  Sure, not allowing the kid to fly was bad.  But do we live in a country in which so many exceptions will be allowed that lots of countries won't tolerate visits from us?

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34 minutes ago, jtwind said:

Lately, I've been seeing light at the end of the tunnel, as far as international travel for people from the US goes.  But a few days ago, a 4 year old autistic kid was kicked off a plane for not wearing a mask.  The backlash from the press has been bad.  Americans, in general, seem to have a hard time making decisions between 2 bad choices, where one may be far worse than the other, and seem to let emotions get in the way.  Sure, not allowing the kid to fly was bad.  But do we live in a country in which so many exceptions will be allowed that lots of countries won't tolerate visits from us?

At the heart of ADA regulations in the US is “reasonable accommodation.” But, that concept goes both ways. 
Subjecting a plane load of passengers/crew to possible Covid transmission/infection by waiving a mask requirement, particularly if the passengers requesting exemption are not engaged in demonstrable “essential” travel, is NOT A “reasonable” accommodation.

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As part of a press release from the article covering this event. All it takes is one incident and Poof!

 

  

Spirit Airlines sent us the following statement regarding the incident:

We sympathize with families facing additional burdens while traveling, including those dealing with medical conditions. Like most airlines, Spirit Airlines started requiring face coverings in May 2020 with the only exemption being one for children under age 2. We remind Guests of our face covering policy throughout the booking process, in a pre-trip email sent prior to departure, and in a required acknowledgement that is part of the check-in procedure.

Our existing policy does not provide for medical exemptions, regardless of diagnosis. Our Team Members explained this to a family traveling today, but never questioned anyone’s medical status in the process. 

Starting March 19, 2021, Guests with a medical disability who are traveling on or after March 22, 2021 can apply for an exemption as provided for in the federal mandate requiring masks in airports and on planes. We plan to add information to our website about the exemption later this week. Please visit our Information Center for more information on what we are doing to keep our Guests and Team Members safe

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6 minutes ago, Sky616 said:

Ridiculous any child should have to wear one of those awful things.  What have we become to allow this?

Smarter, more concerned for the health of those around us, unselfish......

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1 hour ago, Sky616 said:

Ridiculous any child should have to wear one of those awful things.  What have we become to allow this?

 

The only person forcing the child to wear a mask was the parent(s) who booked the flights. The airline couldn't be more clear regarding the requirements and the only exemptions.

 

If they didn't want their child to wear a mask, find another airline (if one exists) or another mode of transport.

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There is a difference between "public health" and "private health".  In the case of this child, public health says that you must wear a mask.  Private health or the health of the child says that he can't wear a mask.  Since public health affect the population as a whole and private health affects only 1 person (the child), I say that public health takes precedence over private health any time.  The parents of that child may just have to accept the fact that if their child will not or can not wear a mask, they just can't travel.  That is just tough.

 

DON

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jtwind said:

Lately, I've been seeing light at the end of the tunnel, as far as international travel for people from the US goes.  But a few days ago, a 4 year old autistic kid was kicked off a plane for not wearing a mask.  The backlash from the press has been bad.  Americans, in general, seem to have a hard time making decisions between 2 bad choices, where one may be far worse than the other, and seem to let emotions get in the way.  Sure, not allowing the kid to fly was bad.  But do we live in a country in which so many exceptions will be allowed that lots of countries won't tolerate visits from us?

 

Yes, yes we do. Americans are conditioned to be wary of any/all restrictions to freedom and personal choice. Those that are more subservient certainly will find it difficult to understand the nature of us Americans. We don't trade liberty for safety easily because we understand this has been used to curtail rights/freedoms and as a form of control (China for example). Vaccines for kids will be available soon enough anyway, they have already begun the second phase for the younger kids (6 months-12 years) which means that the trial for older kids has went well. I suspect vaccines will be available for all kids by the next school year. Things are moving much faster than anticipated and an autistic kid who doesn't want to wear a mask is hardly a crisis. My kids won't be going back to in-class instruction until the mask mandate is lifted. They don't like wearing them for long, nor do I. Guess that reduced our "social credit" score in some peoples eyes. I couldn't care less. 🇺🇸

Edited by cruisingguy007
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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

There is a difference between "public health" and "private health".  In the case of this child, public health says that you must wear a mask.  Private health or the health of the child says that he can't wear a mask.  Since public health affect the population as a whole and private health affects only 1 person (the child), I say that public health takes precedence over private health any time.  The parents of that child may just have to accept the fact that if their child will not or can not wear a mask, they just can't travel.  That is just tough.

 

DON

 

That's not generally how things work in America, you don't get to control anybody else, you only get to control you. If you're so terrified of an autistic kid who is having a meltdown (very stressful for the parents as well) then maybe you are the one who should stay home. The vaccine is a prophylactic, yet others feel they should be able to compel others to get a vaccine to be "allowed" to travel. This pandemic has caused some folks to lose their collective minds. Expecting everyone else to change their ways and bend/flex/fold in order to assuage any of your fears (weather reasonable or unreasonable), is simply not the American way. There is a new term being tossed about "the most selfish generation" for those who would expect everyone else to kowtow to their expectations. Ironically, these same folks tend to accuse everyone else of being selfish for not wanting to sacrifice everything at the alter for them. Too funny.  

Edited by cruisingguy007
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1 hour ago, Sky616 said:

Ridiculous any child should have to wear one of those awful things.  What have we become to allow this?

 

I'll bite, it's a slow day.   What do you know that the rest of the world doesn't? 

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Posted (edited)

Before the pandemic hit, there were many places that were just overwhelmed with tourists.  I wonder if any of these places will just say 'screw the Americans, we have plenty of people from other countries that will come and not give us grief about our rules.'

Edited by jtwind
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3 hours ago, Sky616 said:

Ridiculous any child should have to wear one of those awful things.  What have we become to allow this?

 

Don't be ridiculous. Nobody likes masks, but children are perfectly capable of carrying Covid-19. As someone who still regularly flies for essential work, I'd rather this child (autistic or not) not be on my flight if they could be carrying Covid-19 as I am not yet fully vaccinated. With a mask? Absolutely, welcome aboard, I have minimal concerns about that.

 

I am NOT saying this child shouldn't have the opportunity to travel, and I am very empathetic to the child and their situation, but flying isn't the way this family should be traveling during these times. 

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2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The only person forcing the child to wear a mask was the parent(s) who booked the flights. The airline couldn't be more clear regarding the requirements and the only exemptions.

 

If they didn't want their child to wear a mask, find another airline (if one exists) or another mode of transport.

Exactly.

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Ok so the 4 year old child is not wearing a mask and is autistic, clearly not much sympathy for the child around these parts. 

If i was on that plane as a adult, i would not have been bothered in the slightest, because i would be wearing a mask. If that child had covid and passed it on to me or other passengers wearing masks on that plane, then there is no point in anybody wearing them, as they clearly don't work.

Is there any evidence that 4 year olds are spreading this disease to adults? If there was evidence, then there would be no schools open worldwide.

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, gerryuk said:

Ok so the 4 year old child is not wearing a mask and is autistic, clearly not much sympathy for the child around these parts. 

If i was on that plane as a adult, i would not have been bothered in the slightest, because i would be wearing a mask. If that child had covid and passed it on to me or other passengers wearing masks on that plane, then there is no point in anybody wearing them, as they clearly don't work.

Is there any evidence that 4 year olds are spreading this disease to adults? If there was evidence, then there would be no schools open worldwide.

 

 

 

I’m amazed that people STILL don’t understand how masks work work. Wearing one keeps YOU from spreading it to others. When everyone wears one it is beneficial to all.

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6 minutes ago, Swampbabe said:

I’m amazed that people STILL don’t understand how masks work work. Wearing one keeps YOU from spreading it to others. When everyone wears one it is beneficial to all.

It amazes me also. There are components to this process and after all this time I just don't get those who don't get it.

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I do get it about masks, however we are talking about a 4 year old child with a disability. Some (not all) of the replies and the tone on this thread, about that incident, sent chills down my spine.

When you are in a supermarket and a young child is not wearing a mask, would you insist that child is removed from the shop? Do young children even have to ware masks?

But please can somebody show me evidence that young children are spreading covid to the adult population.

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2 minutes ago, gerryuk said:

I do get it about masks, however we are talking about a 4 year old child with a disability. Some (not all) of the replies and the tone on this thread, about that incident, sent chills down my spine.

When you are in a supermarket and a young child is not wearing a mask, would you insist that child is removed from the shop? Do young children even have to ware masks?

But please can somebody show me evidence that young children are spreading covid to the adult population.

In a supermarket, I can distance myself. 
As for “evidence,” Google is your friend. But, you can start here: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/08/looking-at-children-as-the-silent-spreaders-of-sars-cov-2/

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At this point, even if I knew 1000% that I did not have the virus, I would still wear a mask as a symbolic gesture that I care about my fellow man.

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, gerryuk said:

I do get it about masks, however we are talking about a 4 year old child with a disability. Some (not all) of the replies and the tone on this thread, about that incident, sent chills down my spine.

When you are in a supermarket and a young child is not wearing a mask, would you insist that child is removed from the shop? Do young children even have to ware masks?

But please can somebody show me evidence that young children are spreading covid to the adult population.

 

The rules of the airline was wear masks no exception. I have a disabled relative and have dealt with logistics of travel with them and unfortunately as much as I might wish, public transport just can't always accommodate his needs. So as much as I feel for the family they should have realised this airline is probably not appropriate for their needs.

Edited by ilikeanswers
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24 minutes ago, jtwind said:

At this point, even if I knew 1000% that I did not have the virus, I would still wear a mask as a symbolic gesture that I care about my fellow man.

 

Some people choose to virtual signal, others will use common sense. I will wear one in the grocery store and indoor places where it's required but it's coming off as soon as I get outside. I don't wear one to go walking around for exercise or rolling in my car. If I have to interact with someone (plumber, cable guy, pest control guy etc) I'll wear one for a bit while we talk outside or if they need to come inside. I don't understand the folks driving solo, walking by themselves, sitting at the park etc that wear masks. That just makes me laugh. Masks have become the new comfort blanket, people seem to equate them with instant protection. Reminds me of the folks who won't leave the house or go to any stores where they can't bring a gun (incessant irrational fear). There are plenty of N95's available now, get some of those and protect yourself if you are terrified to see anyone without one. 

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