The madness of the upcoming virus cruise policies

[D C]

27 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

They will be the biggest source when they get going again.  

 

IF a person boards Harmony with Covid on it's Westbound TA Barca to South Florida when at full occupy or at least every cabin is sold or they claim every cabin is with no masks being worn but all passengers vaccinated or claiming to be vaccinated. How many infections will they get onboard? 9k people onboard vaccine 90% effective. 900 possible infections at least? Or more than 900 though they won't be serious? So 900 cases at least in 15 days?. I can't think of a mainland event which has had that level of infection? Not Sturgis? Not the Liverpool v Madrid Soccer game?

 

A fully vaccinated cruise ship is the absolute safest place on earth when it comes to protection from covid.    If a 100% vaccinated environment is insufficient to return to absolute normalcy, then you'll be needlessly living in fear forever.

 

You do realise that a vaccine 'failure' simply means that the virus is able to reproduce in someone, right?  It doesn't mean they're contagious (and every study on the topic is suggesting that vaccination breaks transmission).   A vaccine failure may be someone with the the sniffles for a few days.  Not a big deal. 

 

And do you suppose that these 900 infections will occur on a cruise ship?  Mandatory coughing & sneezing by every passenger into the face of every other passenger?  Let's suppose that there were 900 UNvaccinated people onboard and 1 of them was infected.  That one person would have to have meaningful contact with another one of those 900 people for a long enough period to infect them.  Then, after an incubation period, that person would need to find another one of the 900 and repeat the process.  Meanwhile, they interact with 10x as many vaccinated people who are impervious to the virus.   That's the very notion of herd immunity.  It's difficult for the virus to find a new host because most interactions are with people who will neither contract nor spread the virus. 

[Keksie]

2 hours ago, compman9 said:

It seems when one cruise-line details a policy, others quickly follow. Without naming names (it's not just Royal making weird decisions)

 

Passengers have to be vaccinated to travel - But you have to wear a mask !

 

All passengers will need to be vaccinated - But not the ship staff, shore-side staff, baggage handlers etc !

 

You will need vaccines, masks, test certificates, be tested before you board, virtually swim in sanitizer - But all goods arriving to the quartermaster could have been handled by anyone all over the world !

 

You will have to go on a ship's tour when you leave the ship - But will be exposed to unsanitized coaches, outdoor spaces, products, food, and people !

 

Contradictory madness

 

Welcome to the hypocrisy of 2021.

[D C]

2 hours ago, compman9 said:

It seems when one cruise-line details a policy, others quickly follow. Without naming names (it's not just Royal making weird decisions)

 

Passengers have to be vaccinated to travel - But you have to wear a mask !

 

All passengers will need to be vaccinated - But not the ship staff, shore-side staff, baggage handlers etc !

 

You will need vaccines, masks, test certificates, be tested before you board, virtually swim in sanitizer - But all goods arriving to the quartermaster could have been handled by anyone all over the world !

 

You will have to go on a ship's tour when you leave the ship - But will be exposed to unsanitized coaches, outdoor spaces, products, food, and people !

 

Contradictory madness

 

Who is saying that ship staff will not have to be vaccinated?  I thought Royal said that they were requiring it.

 

With that, the only contradictory measure would be masks, which are nonsensical in a vaccinated population.   We know that the virus is airborne and the year-ago fears about it living for extended periods and being transmitted by touch were incorrect and overblown.  (I thought we all stopped wiping down groceries 10+ months ago).  

 

I'll add that ship-excursions only also seems a bit unwarranted.   It's not like there's a need to prevent mingling with the natives when everyone is vaccinated.  That's a benefit of being vaccinated. 

[ToroAzul]

It's not even airborne, it is droplet transmission, unless there is some aerosol-generating device.

 

Therefore I say, no CPAPs on ships!

[Milwaukee Eight]

36 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

That mist be some UK math, because from my statistics classes (granted 35 years ago) this just does not compute. 

Especially since HOTS doesn’t sail with 9000 people onboard. I believe first sailings will be with decreased capacity. 

[lovescats5]

And I suppose Ace2542 you think children should not be allowed on a cruise ship because they cannot get vaccinated yet.  You need to find a different cruise line or just stay in your house with a mask on and live your life in fear.  And I do not believe the vaccine is the answer to everything.  But most would disagree with that also.  So we get one or two shots every year and still might get sick.  Oh well.

[cruisegirl1]

3 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

Another thread for the rabbit hole.
 

Want to cruise, follow the rules.  Don’t like the rules, don’t cruise until they revert to how you like them. 

I want this on a t-shirt!

 

M

[D C]

33 minutes ago, ToroAzul said:

It's not even airborne, it is droplet transmission, unless there is some aerosol-generating device.

 

Therefore I say, no CPAPs on ships!

Aerosol-generating?  That would be your lungs.  

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, D C said:

Who is saying that ship staff will not have to be vaccinated?  I thought Royal said that they were requiring it.

Saying it and doing it are two different things. I don't think they can figure out how to do it. At least not quickly. If they could secure private or corporate supply they would have done it already.

 

1 hour ago, D C said:

'll add that ship-excursions only also seems a bit unwarranted

But it also gives the cruise line total monopoly? If you stay onboard you will spend money. If you do the excursion you will spend money. Either way they will make money off you. Hardly unwarranted and something they may not be willing to surrender easily. But yes a deal breaker for some people I am sure.

Edited March 18, 2021 by ace2542

[ace2542]

41 minutes ago, lovescats5 said:

And I suppose Ace2542 you think children should not be allowed on a cruise ship because they cannot get vaccinated yet.  You need to find a different cruise line or just stay in your house with a mask on and live your life in fear.  And I do not believe the vaccine is the answer to everything.  But most would disagree with that also.  So we get one or two shots every year and still might get sick.  Oh well.

Kids should be allowed to cruise if they CANNOT receive the vaccine. Those who CHOOSE not to perhaps not.

 

And I will be sitting in my house not going on any cruise ships or planes until someone figures out a way to make my burner phone or track phone in your American terms be able to show proof of vaccine/negative Covid status if needed. Or until some form of paper proof can be accepted. Because I do not intend to purchase hundreds of dollars worth of smart phone or whatever that I cannot use and do not know how to use where I live. Hence my use of an old computer, internet router with hard cable and track/burner cellphone. I am sure these high tech things all work perfectly where I live I just don't know to use them. That is my deal breaker.

[ace2542]

59 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Especially since HOTS doesn’t sail with 9000 people onboard. I believe first sailings will be with decreased capacity. 

Only in passengers not in staff. Carnival at least from what has been said in interviews do not appear to be planning any staff cuts despite the decreased passenger numbers. If Royal where cutting staff numbers they would say so.

[Milwaukee Eight]

7 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Only in passengers not in staff. Carnival at least from what has been said in interviews do not appear to be planning any staff cuts despite the decreased passenger numbers. If Royal where cutting staff numbers they would say so.

Not true.

 

HOTS

5,479 Passengers double occupancy 

2,100 Crew/Staff

 

Has a rated passenger capacity at 6,780 but never gets to this. 

 

These are during normal times. 

 

M8

Edited March 18, 2021 by Milwaukee Eight

[Biker19]

4 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

If Royal where cutting staff numbers they would say so.

RCG doesn't usually ever officially talk about staffing levels on their ships. They have difficulty communicating important things, staffing levels is just not something they would talk about. Most ships are down to about 100 crew, RCG has not said so.

[ace2542]

5 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Not true.

 

HOTS

5,479 Passengers double occupancy 

2,100 Crew/Staff

 

These are during normal times. 

 

M8

According to google 6780 maximum and 2300 staff. Apparently Carnival plans for all 90k of it's staff to return to work.

[josephine678]

Do you think Cruises will finally be permitted to sale from US ports(New Jersey) this summer, with these policies in place.

[Milwaukee Eight]

7 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

According to google 6780 maximum and 2300 staff. Apparently Carnival plans for all 90k of it's staff to return to work.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnn.com/travel/amp/harmony-of-the-seas-worlds-biggest-cruise-ship/index.html

 

I believe you are looking at life boat capacity. 
 

M8

Edited March 18, 2021 by Milwaukee Eight

[grandgeezer]

29 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Only in passengers not in staff. Carnival at least from what has been said in interviews do not appear to be planning any staff cuts despite the decreased passenger numbers. If Royal where cutting staff numbers they would say so.

They would not be cutting staff at this time, just bring back less of them for the major cut in passengers. If things pick up, more staff will be brought back.

Can you picture a full staff of crew splitting the gratuities of only 1/2 of the normal passengers?

[Sky616]

3 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Cruise ships are and will be the biggest source of spread in the world for Covid 19? What other vacation type allows for such a spread? None I can think of not for a such a long period of time. So masks should be worn for life to prevent it.

 

I don't think they know how to vaccinate staff at least not very easily. It may be some time before the single shot Johnson vaccine is up for corporate purchase. So again masks should be worn for life to protect the staff.

 

Vaccines cost  companies money? Masks don't? And the staff really are now prisoners on the ships. Unvaccinated they will not be allowed off.

 

 

We'll see  how many people wear masks for life.. Go live in Asia if you want that.  

[Empehi]

My only comment concerning this topic is the question:

 

What is the point of the vaccinations if after you are vaccinated you have you still are required to wear masks, social distance and be tested constantly. It seems pretty absurd.

 

 

[compman9]

4 hours ago, Biker19 said:

It seems to me you either trust the cruise line to keep you safe (and ignore just about everything else about the subject) or you indulge in going down the various rabbit holes of vaccine debate threads on CC.

 

I am saying this out of respect because you enjoy posting so often on here, but I have to ask why you would not discuss any of those contradictions, and suggest people should blindly accept the cruise line's policies despite those contradictions?

 

I appreciate there are a fair few replies to my post, but no-one has addressed these bizarre contradictions

 

 

[Joseph2017China]

2 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Pretty poor math? 9000 people onboard 90% effective vaccine if all have vaccine then 10% of people the vaccine will not be effective in? So that is 900 people upon whom the vaccine has not worked? Or am I missing something.

you are missing that each person has a 10% chance of getting it with a vaccine, not 10% of the population on the ship.  The reality is the number is more around 95% on average depending on what vaccine you have.  So now you only have a 5% chance of getting it, but if you are around everyone with a vaccine, the odds are even better that you won't get it.  The math (statistics) is much more complicated than what you said.  To get to your numbers, you would have to find enough people on the ship, that the vaccine did not work on and than that person would have to find enough people to spread it to, that the vaccine did not work also......not a very easy task, and certainly not going to be 900

 

[DCGuy64]

10 minutes ago, Joseph2017China said:

you are missing that each person has a 10% chance of getting it with a vaccine, not 10% of the population on the ship.  The reality is the number is more around 95% on average depending on what vaccine you have.  So now you only have a 5% chance of getting it, but if you are around everyone with a vaccine, the odds are even better that you won't get it.  The math (statistics) is much more complicated than what you said.  To get to your numbers, you would have to find enough people on the ship, that the vaccine did not work on and than that person would have to find enough people to spread it to, that the vaccine did not work also......not a very easy task, and certainly not going to be 900

 

And even in the extremely unlikely case of you getting it, your chances of survival are very likely north of 99%.

[Iamcruzin]

5 hours ago, compman9 said:

It seems when one cruise-line details a policy, others quickly follow. Without naming names (it's not just Royal making weird decisions)

 

Passengers have to be vaccinated to travel - But you have to wear a mask !

 

All passengers will need to be vaccinated - But not the ship staff, shore-side staff, baggage handlers etc !

 

You will need vaccines, masks, test certificates, be tested before you board, virtually swim in sanitizer - But all goods arriving to the quartermaster could have been handled by anyone all over the world !

 

You will have to go on a ship's tour when you leave the ship - But will be exposed to unsanitized coaches, outdoor spaces, products, food, and people !

 

Contradictory madness

 

This is why I won't book a cruise until I see what it's going to be. I can just do a land vacation with less hoops to jump through. With the constant itinerary changes, rate hikes, the uncertainty of when it will start and all of the protocols cruising has lost the appeal it once had.

[newcruzer2]

3 hours ago, Joseph2017China said:

 We already wear articles of clothing we don't always like because it is required, and so a mask is just that.  

LOL what exactly does this reference. Are you a nude beach kinda person LOL

more power to you, I exercise daily BUT trust me ALL of my clothing is required by me LOL

Edited March 18, 2021 by newcruzer2

[Milwaukee Eight]

34 minutes ago, compman9 said:

 

I am saying this out of respect because you enjoy posting so often on here, but I have to ask why you would not discuss any of those contradictions, and suggest people should blindly accept the cruise line's policies despite those contradictions?

 

I appreciate there are a fair few replies to my post, but no-one has addressed these bizarre contradictions

 

 

It’s simple. Our debate here means NOTHING. Their ship, their rules. Matters not what we think. Don’t like their rules, don’t go.