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Will Carnival Follow Royal’s.Lead with Cruises Restarting Someplace Else


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21 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Did you start reading with post 115? Nothing to do with last year.

I am confused over what you are both arguing about.

 

Your link/copy of "Post 115" has a date stamp of October 15, 2020.  That is last year?

 

And as noted, your link to whatever discussion that was relevant is a dead link - nothing there.  So I cannot gather any context for what you are trying to say.  As noted:
 

Sorry, there is a problem

We could not locate the item you are trying to view.

Error code: 2F173/O

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On 3/19/2021 at 1:29 PM, BlerkOne said:

CDC is probably loving it. So by June, Royal will be having "test" cruises and if something goes wrong, the CDC isn't on the hook. If not, CDC can relax the guidelines.

 

Will Carnival follow? Would they really need to? Probably not. Let someone else be the guinea pig. Carnival (Princess) was the scapegoat last time.

Absolutely and well said. Number one can sometimes lead the initiatives and sometimes they follow. Let the others "mess" it up and everyone is happy at Carnival.  

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35 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

 Let the others "mess" it up and everyone is happy at Carnival.  

So far Royal has announced Nassau and Bermuda, while Celebrity  has announced St.Maarten as new embarkation ports on this side of the pond,  while Carnival Corporations Princess and P&O are sailing this summer around the UK.

All of the above mentioned sailings require vaccines for adults and negative tests for children.  Supposedly Carnival will be sailing vaccine free according to a quote from their idiot CEO Arnold Donald.  Of course things could change but it looks like he is putting cash flow at the head of the line if this policy does in fact become reality.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

I will put my medical degree and nearly 30

years private practice up against

your google any day. 
 

T cell response in recovered Covid patients is.not nearly as robust as T cell response in the vaccinated individual. This is why the CDC recommends recovered Covid sufferers still get vaccinated, and why they will not accept a certificate of recovery for entry into the US (even before vaccines)

Edited by not-enough-cruising
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3 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

So far Royal has announced Nassau and Bermuda, while Celebrity  has announced St.Maarten as new embarkation ports on this side of the pond,  while Carnival Corporations Princess and P&O are sailing this summer around the UK.

All of the above mentioned sailings require vaccines for adults and negative tests for children.  Supposedly Carnival will be sailing vaccine free according to a quote from their idiot CEO Arnold Donald.  Of course things could change but it looks like he is putting cash flow at the head of the line if this policy does in fact become reality.

Celebrity has another announcement on Thursday.

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On 3/20/2021 at 10:50 AM, Empehi said:

Forgive me for bringing a little politics into the CDC reluctance to move forward in any meaningful way to get cruising started in the US but perhaps one should consider different motives of the CDC. It certainly doesn't appear the CDC is making any move to get cruising started so maybe this is the reason:

 

1. The CDC wants to bring the cruise lines to their knees (near or to bankruptcy). WHY?

2. So as a condition for sailing, the lines will have to re-flag some of their ships in the US. WHY?

3. So they will be under complete control of US employment regulations and

4. Therefore be able to unionize.

 

So think about it .... otherwise how the CDC is acting makes no sense.

Never attribute to malice, that which can be attributed to mere incompetence.

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6 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I could be misunderstanding your pt. While we dont have exact figures, it does look like immunity lasts longer with vaccines than with having covid. Of course they are taking measurements of antigens. How else would they be able to say immunity lasts longer if shots are 12 weeks apart. Actually I'm curious if immunity lasts longer at 12 weeks apart why are some other countries like the UK and others doing 12 weeks apart and we arent?

 

I'm sure in the next year more exact studies will be published and I'm sure doctors already have access to much of the data you and I dont have yet.  Like how long on average does immunity last with having had covid. If this wasnt shorter in duration we wouldnt be giving those who recovered the vaccine. I'm backing the doctor here.

Not an immunologist and I don't know the technical names, but antibodies, detected reasonably easily with common testing, wane over time.  The T-cell and B-cell immunity, which is an uncommon and expensive test to detect, last much longer.  18 years in the case of SARS 1.  The vaccines trigger an immune response in your body, starting with detectible antibodies.  The longer gap between shots apparently provides a more robust response (as evidenced by detectible antibodies).  Havind said all that, our bodies' immune system is remarkable and can recognize and respond to these viral invasions long after exposure.

 

I did read something within the last week that said viruses that have more regular/uniform surface appearance (measles, mumps, polio) tend to result in much longer immunity - hence the one and done.  Influenza is more irregular and mutates readily, thus the need for boosters annually.  COVID falls into the former.  I cant cite the document now but it was a good laypersons read.  I did find this from 2019 though just now...

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/04/how-long-do-vaccines-last-surprising-answers-may-help-protect-people-longer

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7 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I could be misunderstanding your pt. While we dont have exact figures, it does look like immunity lasts longer with vaccines than with having covid. Of course they are taking measurements of antigens. How else would they be able to say immunity lasts longer if shots are 12 weeks apart. Actually I'm curious if immunity lasts longer at 12 weeks apart why are some other countries like the UK and others doing 12 weeks apart and we arent?

 

I'm sure in the next year more exact studies will be published and I'm sure doctors already have access to much of the data you and I dont have yet.  Like how long on average does immunity last with having had covid. If this wasnt shorter in duration we wouldnt be giving those who recovered the vaccine. I'm backing the doctor here.

On cruises there are people who do not pay a dime on gratuities to anyone for anything. There are people who fake disabilities and get greater cabins. There are people who even bring animals on board because of laws passed. This goes on top of people getting special treatment. And there is more. I do not care about the doctor. For the cruise lines charges premium prices for them in their history when someone has a problem.

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46 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Just out miami heat will have a special section for vaccinated to sit.

 

...and guess who owns the Heat?  Why, it's Micky Arison, Chairman of Carnival Corporation.

 

Maybe Micky will give vaccinated people better cabins when we start sailing again!

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22 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

...and guess who owns the Heat?  Why, it's Micky Arison, Chairman of Carnival Corporation.

 

Maybe Micky will give vaccinated people better cabins when we start sailing again!

Right now not vaccinated wouldnt be boarding at all.

 

Let's see rcl boards buzzing with happiness and booking these new cruises in june, so happy to be cruising again.

 

Carnival boards doom and gloom, not us, we ain't getting no vaccines, we will stay home. If you want to stay home it's fine. 

 

I'm seeing posts Ncl will be making a announcement soon, seems like they are following the trend to move offshore. Come on carnival and get with the plan. Let those who want to cruise vaccinated cruise. 

 

Rcl pricing interesting. A TA posted with D+ discount, balconys about $22 more. They are definitely pushing you toward a balcony or higher with that pricing..though lower categories are available unlike with celebrity. NCL seems like will be next. 

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I think CCL will move to have vaccines required for those 18 and over and  a negative test for those under 18.  I am hoping if 17 year old gets vaccinated it counts.  but we have a long way to go. I think people on CCL boards are ready to cruise. 

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42 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

"It is true that natural infection almost always causes better immunity than vaccines."

https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/immune-system-and-health

Then why is no one accepting a “certificate of recovery” as a valid  proof of immunity?

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28 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Then why is no one accepting a “certificate of recovery” as a valid  proof of immunity?

Because it is not valid proof of immunity.  I already know of 2 people in my community who had (pretty severe) cases last March, and just came down with covid again.  Case isn't as severe, but it is definitely (positive test) covid.  

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2 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

...and guess who owns the Heat?  Why, it's Micky Arison, Chairman of Carnival Corporation.

 

Maybe Micky will give vaccinated people better cabins when we start sailing again!

Well, his idiot CEO Arnold Donald is on record stating that vaccinations may only be a requirement on Carnival cruises that seniors prefer to take, going against all of their competitors requirements of vaccinations needed for adults.  This includes Carnival Corp subsidiaries Princess and P&O.

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how do you prove you were vaccinated.  A card with hand written date and vaccine name?  When reading about others that have been vaccinated it doesn't sound like there is a national data base.  Plus, because of HIPPA laws, how can a cruise line or custom agent access your health records?

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11 minutes ago, dallasdan said:

how do you prove you were vaccinated.  A card with hand written date and vaccine name?  When reading about others that have been vaccinated it doesn't sound like there is a national data base.  Plus, because of HIPPA laws, how can a cruise line or custom agent access your health records?

HIPPA is the question for domestic departures, but RCL is leaving from the Bahamas/Bermuda/St Martin where HIPPA doesn't exist.

 

They are using the Vaccine cards for proof, which could be faked, but seems so much easier to just get the vaccine.

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14 minutes ago, dallasdan said:

how do you prove you were vaccinated.  A card with hand written date and vaccine name?  When reading about others that have been vaccinated it doesn't sound like there is a national data base.  Plus, because of HIPPA laws, how can a cruise line or custom agent access your health records?

Rcl should come out soon what is required, but I'm guessing the card is enough to bring.

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2 hours ago, jfunk138 said:

"It is true that natural infection almost always causes better immunity than vaccines."

https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/immune-system-and-health

Wow, way to spin it.  And zero context with regard to COVID-19.

 

It also notes the opposite is true in a number of cases (again, no mention of COVID-19):

"a few vaccines induce a better immune response than natural infection"

 

And it also notes that with the "natural infection" can come a whole raft of side effects or collateral damage, which is not (usually) the case with vaccines.

 

Also, the article goes on to state:

 

"So, in summary, vaccines afford us protection with lesser quantities of virus or bacteria and the control of scheduling the exposure."

 

 

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Loved reading about a simple question that turned into fights over who is too cheap to buy a passport, how Covid works, the CDC gargage etc.  But the one thing I did not find out, is if anyone had any idea if Carnival will start a cruise anyplace outside of USA.  But 5 RCCL company ships are sailing, with a few more to be announced in the coming weeks.  Sales are brisk (even with a passport).  So if anyone wants to take a minute to stop fighting over the CDC, masks, the vaccination process, or how much a passport costs, than check out the RCCL ships, and go on a cruise......they are usually better anyway

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1 hour ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

Wow, way to spin it.  And zero context with regard to COVID-19.

 

It also notes the opposite is true in a number of cases (again, no mention of COVID-19):

"a few vaccines induce a better immune response than natural infection"

 

And it also notes that with the "natural infection" can come a whole raft of side effects or collateral damage, which is not (usually) the case with vaccines.

 

Also, the article goes on to state:

 

"So, in summary, vaccines afford us protection with lesser quantities of virus or bacteria and the control of scheduling the exposure."

 

 

Not sure what the spin is here.  Several posters have suggested that natural infection immunity is inferior to vaccination.  The cited science suggests that is "almost always" not the case. 

If Covid-19 vaccination immunity is superior it would be added to the short list of exceptions to the "almost always" rule.  You'll notice that the "exceptions list" does not include any respiratory viruses.

So if Covid-19 vax does provide better immunity than natural infection it would the THE FIRST respiratory virus for which this is true.


 

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9 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Not sure what the spin is here.  Several posters have suggested that natural infection immunity is inferior to vaccination.  The cited science suggests that is "almost always" not the case.
 

Me neither. The truth is the answer is not currently known for Covid and mRNA vaccines. As for other vaccines for different viruses, any comparisons are not valid.

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