CDC Conditional Sail Order Extended to Nov 1

[boscobeans]

13 minutes ago, Pratique said:

You need to get over that.

Why ??

The good doctor's input has been very influential in any decisions made by the C.D.C. and those who govern the States and Ports where Cruise Ships visit.

 

He has gone from no mask to double mask and from 6 feet to 3 feet and is even still placing trust in what the Chinese are saying as to the source of the infection or Patient Zero.. Many changes could be flip flopping or maybe just changes in his opinion..

 

HOWEVER,

MANY with the same experiences and education disagree with his statements including the uselessness of many cloth masks.

 

I like to look at real data, like the thousands and thousands of people now sailing on cruises to nowhere with very few if any documented spread of infection.  

 

Millions and millions of those immunized in our population, the new therapies and the advanced testing have significantly altered any decisions made even just a few weeks ago.. 

 

JMHO

 

[Milwaukee Eight]

43 minutes ago, Pratique said:

You need to get over that.

Seems you do?  M8

[Pratique]

18 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

Why ??

The good doctor's input has been very influential in any decisions made by the C.D.C. and those who govern the States and Ports where Cruise Ships visit.

 

He has gone from no mask to double mask and from 6 feet to 3 feet and is even still placing trust in what the Chinese are saying as to the source of the infection or Patient Zero.. Many changes could be flip flopping or maybe just changes in his opinion..

 

HOWEVER,

MANY with the same experiences and education disagree with his statements including the uselessness of many cloth masks.

 

I like to look at real data, like the thousands and thousands of people now sailing on cruises to nowhere with very few if any documented spread of infection.  

 

Millions and millions of those immunized in our population, the new therapies and the advanced testing have significantly altered any decisions made even just a few weeks ago.. 

 

JMHO

 

Because if any of you want to lock arms with DeSantis in a crusade against the no sail order, discrediting someone who doesn't have the final say won't get us an inch closer to cruising again.

[boscobeans]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

Because if any of you want to lock arms with DeSantis in a crusade against the no sail order, discrediting someone who doesn't have the final say won't get us an inch closer to cruising again.

Pointing out differing OPINIONS expressed by many persons in the same field with similar educations, positions and qualifications isn't really "discrediting someone". 

[4774Papa]

4 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

Pointing out differing OPINIONS expressed by many persons in the same field with similar educations, positions and qualifications isn't really "discrediting someone". 

Correct to a degree, but also it could.  I think we should err on the side of protecting lives, but resuming cruising should clearly be viable once vaccinations reach a high percentage of the population.  Also, cruise lines could admit just vaccinated persons.

[Empehi]

IMHO the CDC's main objective at this point is to bring the cruise lines to their knees to get them to flag their ships in the US. It galls the  Federal Government that the three largest cruise companies have their headquarters in the  US but are able to avoid many US rules, regulations and taxes.

 

With the vaccines rollout, it is pretty obvious that the vaccines along with the protocols that have been working in Singapore and Europe should be sufficient to begin sailing. Instead nothing from the CDC.

So therefore, we have to look for,  another motive from the CDC, other than the health of the cruisers, for their stonewalling.

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

Because if any of you want to lock arms with DeSantis in a crusade against the no sail order, discrediting someone who doesn't have the final say won't get us an inch closer to cruising again.

We did. He visited Bikeweek, had a beer with us, was a huge crowd and very few masks. He doesn’t wear one (I suspect he is vaccinated). It was great and so many from out of State cheered him one. It made the hair on my neck stand. I was proud to be an American and Free!!  
 

We have our vaccine. Hope you have yours. How much do you get out and about?
 

M8

[molly361]

4 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

We did. He visited Bikeweek, had a beer with us, was a huge crowd and very few masks. He doesn’t wear one (I suspect he is vaccinated). It was great and so many from out of State cheered him one. It made the hair on my neck stand. I was proud to be an American and Free!!  
 

We have our vaccine. Hope you have yours. How much do you get out and about?
 

M8

Just saw in the News Journal online that cases in Volusia have gone up 41%.  They say due to Bike Week  Spring Break spike next   

Coronavirus cases in both Volusia and Flagler counties have increased significantly nearly two weeks after the end of Bike Week, putting both counties at a high risk for even more cases.

Over the past 14 days, Volusia has seen a 41% increase in the average daily COVID-19 cases while Flagler has seen a 24% increase, according to an analysis of state data by The New York Times. 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by molly361

[chengkp75]

15 minutes ago, Empehi said:

IMHO the CDC's main objective at this point is to bring the cruise lines to their knees to get them to flag their ships in the US. It galls the  Federal Government that the three largest cruise companies have their headquarters in the  US but are able to avoid many US rules, regulations and taxes.

This is absolute rubbish.  Even politicians know that flagging cruise ships to US would kill the US cruise industry, as fares would rise 2 to 3 times what they were.  The federal government could care less about what flag the cruise lines fly.  In fact, the USCG would just as soon keep the ships foreign flag, as they would have to inspect 4 times as much, and their Marine Inspection budget gets smaller and smaller every year due to shifting mission priorities (border patrol and drug interdiction).

[Milwaukee Eight]

6 minutes ago, molly361 said:

Just saw in the News Journal online that cases in Volusia have gone up 41%.  They say due to Bike Week  Spring Break spike next   

Coronavirus cases in both Volusia and Flagler counties have increased significantly nearly two weeks after the end of Bike Week, putting both counties at a high risk for even more cases.

Over the past 14 days, Volusia has seen a 41% increase in the average daily COVID-19 cases while Flagler has seen a 24% increase, according to an analysis of state data by The New York Times. 

 

 

181 today, 161 yesterday. I don’t see that as significant. Still not a super spreader event. Doesn’t take much change in numbers this low to make it look like a huge percentage. 
 

It’s not about testing, it’s about the hospitals. The boss is oncall today and all 3 of the big hospitals here are code green. Volusia has plenty of hospital beds available as well as ICU beds. You can confirm these online. 
 

M8

[not-enough-cruising]

7 minutes ago, molly361 said:

Just saw in the News Journal online that cases in Volusia have gone up 41%.  They say due to Bike Week  Spring Break spike next   

Coronavirus cases in both Volusia and Flagler counties have increased significantly nearly two weeks after the end of Bike Week, putting both counties at a high risk for even more cases.

Over the past 14 days, Volusia has seen a 41% increase in the average daily COVID-19 cases while Flagler has seen a 24% increase, according to an analysis of state data by The New York Times. 

 

 

Meaningless numbers. 

What were the numbers before? A 24% increase of “insignificant” is still “insignificant”

 

What are hospitalizations? Any increase in cases, without a proportional increase in hospitalizations, simply does not matter. 

 

[not-enough-cruising]

Just now, Milwaukee Eight said:

181 today, 161 yesterday. I don’t see that as significant. Still not a super spreader event. Doesn’t take much change in numbers this low to make it look like a huge percentage. 
 

It’s not about testing, it’s about the hospitals. The boss is oncall today and all 3 of the big hospitals here are code green. Volusia has plenty of hospital beds available as well as ICU beds. You can confirm these online. 
 

M8

You beat me to it by mere seconds!

[Milwaukee Eight]

Just now, not-enough-cruising said:

Meaningless numbers. 

What were the numbers before? A 24% increase of “insignificant” is still “insignificant”

 

What are hospitalizations? Any increase in cases, without a proportional increase in hospitalizations, simply does not matter. 

 

Hospitals in Volusia are Code Green. I have a source. 😂

[jean87510]

15 hours ago, time4u2go said:

I'm not sure the Super Bowl is really a good metric. Only a fraction of the normal attendance was there. It's not like people were shoulder-to-shoulder.

Tampa won and superbowl was in Tampa.  I think it was a good example.  One of the rare times this happens in football with winning team does it in home city. 

As an aside to this, it is amazing how much progress we have made with Operation warp speed and development of vaccines let alone the number of people vaccinated.  Considering the fear and the unknown of 9 months ago, who would have thought we would be this far ahead?  These scientists and drug companies who developed this vaccines should truly be commended for an amazing effort.  

[grandgeezer]

28 minutes ago, Empehi said:

IMHO the CDC's main objective at this point is to bring the cruise lines to their knees to get them to flag their ships in the US. It galls the  Federal Government that the three largest cruise companies have their headquarters in the  US but are able to avoid many US rules, regulations and taxes.

 

With the vaccines rollout, it is pretty obvious that the vaccines along with the protocols that have been working in Singapore and Europe should be sufficient to begin sailing. Instead nothing from the CDC.

So therefore, we have to look for,  another motive from the CDC, other than the health of the cruisers, for their stonewalling.

Those protocols in those two places might be working but they wouldn't be cost effective worldwide. If you haven't noticed it hasn't expanded that much and the amount of passengers allowed on the ship hasn't changed as far as I know. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

Tampa won and superbowl was in Tampa.  I think it was a good example.  One of the rare times this happens in football with winning team does it in home city. 

As an aside to this, it is amazing how much progress we have made with Operation warp speed and development of vaccines let alone the number of people vaccinated.  Considering the fear and the unknown of 9 months ago, who would have thought we would be this far ahead?  These scientists and drug companies who developed this vaccines should truly be commended for an amazing effort.  

Thank goodness for forward thinking Operation Warp Speed. 
 

M8

[sandebeach]

Florida Senators Rick Scott and Mario Rubio have sent a letter, along with Alaska reps, to the head of the COVID  Response Team  asking for clarification on many points, such as Who exactly is in charge of cruise ship restart. Interesting letter. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by sandebeach

[KuffMUp]

On 3/24/2021 at 12:39 PM, not-enough-cruising said:

Soooooo..................they extended it one day??!!??

No.  It is part of legal timekeeping.  It expires at 11:59 pm on the 31st.  Effectively the 1st.

[Empehi]

44 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is absolute rubbish.  Even politicians know that flagging cruise ships to US would kill the US cruise industry, as fares would rise 2 to 3 times what they were.  The federal government could care less about what flag the cruise lines fly.  In fact, the USCG would just as soon keep the ships foreign flag, as they would have to inspect 4 times as much, and their Marine Inspection budget gets smaller and smaller every year due to shifting mission priorities (border patrol and drug interdiction).

OK .... If what you say is true ..... then what is the CDC's plan to begin cruising.  Perhaps they are deferring to see what happens in Europe as cruising begins this June and July. They apparently have not even given the cruise companies a schedule of procedures that must be implemented to begin.

[not-enough-cruising]

34 minutes ago, KuffMUp said:

No.  It is part of legal timekeeping.  It expires at 11:59 pm on the 31st.  Effectively the 1st.

It was a tongue in cheek comment to illustrate the ridiculously obvious agenda of the MSM to make something sound like something it isn't.

[easyqueasy]

50 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

Tampa won and superbowl was in Tampa.  I think it was a good example.  One of the rare times this happens in football with winning team does it in home city. 

As an aside to this, it is amazing how much progress we have made with Operation warp speed and development of vaccines let alone the number of people vaccinated.  Considering the fear and the unknown of 9 months ago, who would have thought we would be this far ahead?  These scientists and drug companies who developed this vaccines should truly be commended for an amazing effort.  

The scientists should definitely be commended. Probably won’t happen again if the administration makes the drug companies give away their secrets.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/26/covid-vaccine-updates-white-house-mulls-lifting-intellectual-property-shield.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard&fbclid=IwAR1-iABt3nv482pIe9GFAM-b3rtdUgAZTsA1iWBzbGAkdaNJe-XRe28qWsU

[chengkp75]

41 minutes ago, Empehi said:

OK .... If what you say is true ..... then what is the CDC's plan to begin cruising.  Perhaps they are deferring to see what happens in Europe as cruising begins this June and July. They apparently have not even given the cruise companies a schedule of procedures that must be implemented to begin.

All one has to do is look at how the VSP was created by the CDC and the cruise industry.  The CDC sets the requirements (as they have done in the "Framework for Conditional Sailing", based on their experience in epidemiology.  Then the cruise lines come back with specific, detailed, procedures, policies, and equipment, that they feel will both meet the CDC's requirements, and that are physically and fiscally possible in their area of expertise, operating cruise ships.  Then these are fine tuned by both parties to be the best possible.  As I've said, the requirements that the CDC set for conditional sailing, are the exact same requirements they posted back in April 2020 in the "no sail order", as being the conditions for obtaining "free pratique" (free pratique is the health clearance that every ship needs to enter US waters), so this was what was going to be needed after the halt of sailing expired.  So, this has been spelled out by the CDC for a year.  The cruise lines did not respond with action/response plans as they did for the VSP, so the CDC had to resort to issuing "technical instructions" using their limited experience in real world ship operations.  It took 6 months for most cruise lines to get their ships set up to meet even "phase 1" (crew repatriation), which had been posted since June/July. Now, the CDC is working on the "phase 2" technical instructions (again, not something they do routinely) of getting contracts and agreements with ports, hospitals, transportation and hotels (quarantine).  Because the cruise lines have been so lax in their response to the requirements set by the CDC in the "Framework", and earlier in the "no sail order", that I am sure the technical instructions  are a low priority for them.

[smokeybandit]

Most major lines have gotten through Phase 1 months ago.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/crew-disembarkations-commercial-travel.html

[Pratique]

2 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

We did. He visited Bikeweek, had a beer with us, was a huge crowd and very few masks. He doesn’t wear one (I suspect he is vaccinated). It was great and so many from out of State cheered him one. It made the hair on my neck stand. I was proud to be an American and Free!!  
 

We have our vaccine. Hope you have yours. How much do you get out and about?
 

M8

You know that I teach in person, I’m tested weekly. It can be done safely but it requires everyone’s cooperation, not a free for all. Our governor has extended the mask mandate for another three weeks at least. It’s the right thing to do.

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 minute ago, Pratique said:

You know that I teach in person, I’m tested weekly. It can be done safely but it requires everyone’s cooperation, not a free for all. Our governor has extended the mask mandate for another three weeks at least. It’s the right thing to do.

I remember you now. Your the college professor. Got it. Too bad you don’t have a strong Union. 😇
 

Have you been vaccinated yet?  Hope so. 
 

I’ll give you a get out of jail free card and come down to the free State of Florida. 😂

 

M8