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CDC restricts North America until Nov.1


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In my opinion, THe CDC has too much power.  Thet do not put this on Hotels, resorts, Airplanes or trains.  All of this is for  a virus that 97% of those who get it will fully recover.

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1 hour ago, Himself said:

In my opinion, THe CDC has too much power.  Thet do not put this on Hotels, resorts, Airplanes or trains.  All of this is for  a virus that 97% of those who get it will fully recover.

I think the families of the 500,000+ who died in the USA alone might disagree with you.  And you obviously haven't been around with the many who are dealing with trying to recover even months later.  The reality is not what you believe.

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15 hours ago, john2003 said:

There are reasons why sometimes non-elected officials are granted certain powers. Probably because politicians might not always act in our best interest. You could build a cheaper  bridge if the politicians were the structural engineers. Would you drive on it? 

Please explain what I am missing.

Even a well intentioned bureaucrat can have blinders on and only see one aspect of a situation. At some point you might disagree with the CDC and then what. They don't have accountability since they are not elected. Inaction can be just as bad and a career bureaucrat can be very adverse to making a decision. Any area dealing with health/medicine can be particularly frustrating as by nature the information available is changing but they are afraid to make a decision. Even very smart doctors/scientists can make the wrong/no longer applicable decision but often double down rather than admit new data changes the "recommendation."

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1 hour ago, Himself said:

In my opinion, THe CDC has too much power.  Thet do not put this on Hotels, resorts, Airplanes or trains.  All of this is for  a virus that 97% of those who get it will fully recover.

They do not have the same power over hotels, resorts, airplanes, and trains. I hope you are not arguing for them to have more power. (I know you are not.)

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1 hour ago, Himself said:

In my opinion, THe CDC has too much power.  Thet do not put this on Hotels, resorts, Airplanes or trains.  All of this is for  a virus that 97% of those who get it will fully recover.

MANY do not fully recover, period. Hotels and airplanes and trains are more necessary than cruise ships. Cruise ships have a bigger problem with sanitation and confinement. 

I have buried 2 people from directly in my family from Covid. Our local Funerals Homes are swamped with people dying.

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In my opinion it is very alarming that those who are supposed to be in so called "respected positions" often give out misleading information to others.   They should keep their opinion to themselves - like me.

 

It is possible that we will not meet on cruise ships or planes for the next couple of years if you do not get the vaccine.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Lots of good points here (about the CDC and CLIA) but count on me to be somewhat of a contrarian :).  I spent nearly forty years in the government helping to regulate the healthcare (primarily hospital) industry.   .....

 

Hlitner did a great job explaining the the mess at CDC which is halting cruises in the US. I refer to it as "Operation Snail Pace". What little has been published addresses early scenarios such as the Diamond Princess. So much has advanced in COVID testing, treatment, and of course, the vaccines that really isn't addressed in the published CSO. Meanwhile, the cruise industry has been sailing under other guidelines in other parts of the world with with some success. MSC, RCI and others have implemented their own procedures and are developing a pretty good track record of dealing with COVID cases on board. More cruise lines are planning to start up (outside the US of course) and pretty soon, we'll have more experiences to add to our post-COVID cruise knowledge while the CDC continues Operation Snail Pace. My guess is the cruise industry's knowledge will exceed the CDC's knowledge by the summer (they really probably already have). Instead of publicly "giving up", they will simply let the current orders expire on schedule and US cruising will begin November 1.

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4 hours ago, kazu said:

 

You make a good point.   One similarity for me would be train trips.  Here we have some extensive ones like the Rocky Mountaineer and travel right across Canada which involve days.  Meals on board are in very small spaces and seat spacing (unless you have your own bedroom) is very tight and still tight in the snack bars, viewing areas, dining room, dome viewing area, etc.  

 

While technically not under CDC jurisdiction, the scenes of the Spring Break crowds in Miami did not follow any guidelines and conditions were much worse than any cruise ship 

 

 I was looking at how travel industries were treated differently when I posted. For example, while non-essential travel has been against CDC and our guidelines, air travel is way up now in the U.S. by news reports I have seen.  People are masked but there is no physical distancing and no longer a middle seat left empty.  

 

Air travel here is about to increase with some routes starting to be added back in.

 

The air lines have been receiving Government support.  Meanwhile the variants that have arrived and our cases of covid in our province have all been travel related.  

 

Hopefully the vaccine can get into enough arms world wide to make a difference. 🤞 

 

I had not thought about train trips.  But even there you did not move around much so you close  contact is probably with a couple of dozen people at most compared to hundred on a ship.  You also have a max of a day or tow vs the longer periods.  Also the essential vs non-essential travel.

 

The sooner the incident rate gets down the faster we all get back to normal.

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16 hours ago, iancal said:

 

IF this is not a policy change why on earth was there so much angst over trying to get around the various legislation to cruise to Alaska.  Was it a pointless exercise given the CDC regs in place at that time???

I agree. As much as I would love to sail, watching the bitter debates about the PVSA and Canadian port closures has been confusing, given that ships aren’t allowed to sail to or from US ports in any case. It’s sort of like watching people fight over the best sunscreen to use after dark.

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12 minutes ago, nocl said:

I had not thought about train trips.  But even there you did not move around much so you close  contact is probably with a couple of dozen people at most compared to hundred on a ship.  You also have a max of a day or tow vs the longer periods.  Also the essential vs non-essential travel.

 

The sooner the incident rate gets down the faster we all get back to normal.

 

On the train trips I have been on (they are all longer) people move around a lot for exercise, change of scenery, a snack, a view, etc.

 

Totally agree with you that the faster the incident rate goes down the sooner we will return to some sense of normalcy.

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IMO, many people don't understand the problem(s). As a result, the CDC is facing mighty headwinds. Anyone have pictures of Miami Beach.

 

Look at it from the virus POV. It's so boring using plants as host. Imagine the excitement when animals show up several hundred million years ago. OMG! Virus heaven! I can hitch a ride to the next valley!!!

 

Well, imagine the delight of the virus when animal mobility came with social instincts. Animals need to congregate for protection and procreation. Hot Dogs! The virus can infect whole herds and travel the region!

 

Imagine the boredom in the bat caves of China. After generations of infection, the bat colonies are saturated. Got to find new breeding opportunities. New bat caves or new hosts?

 

Success. Covid migrates to humans in the 21st Century. They join the tourists in visiting the Big Apple and the canals of Venice. Can it get any better than this? Arrivederci!

 

In some communities, people actually don't believe that covid exist. On their ICU deathbeds, patients have been reported saying, “It can't be covid! Is it lung cancer???” Muchas gracias!

 

For covid19, the sky is the limit. There are only a few party poopers who sealed off their borders. Never mind, once the borders reopen, the variants (new and improved covid) will ride again. Hi Ho, Silver!

 

So, fellow cruisers, what is the CDC (or any responsible government) to do?

 

USA daily covid cases March 23.JPG

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24 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

IMO, many people don't understand the problem(s). As a result, the CDC is facing mighty headwinds. Anyone have pictures of Miami Beach.

 

Look at it from the virus POV. It's so boring using plants as host. Imagine the excitement when animals show up several hundred million years ago. OMG! Virus heaven! I can hitch a ride to the next valley!!!

 

Well, imagine the delight of the virus when animal mobility came with social instincts. Animals need to congregate for protection and procreation. Hot Dogs! The virus can infect whole herds and travel the region!

 

Imagine the boredom in the bat caves of China. After generations of infection, the bat colonies are saturated. Got to find new breeding opportunities. New bat caves or new hosts?

 

Success. Covid migrates to humans in the 21st Century. They join the tourists in visiting the Big Apple and the canals of Venice. Can it get any better than this? Arrivederci!

 

In some communities, people actually don't believe that covid exist. On their ICU deathbeds, patients have been reported saying, “It can't be covid! Is it lung cancer???” Muchas gracias!

 

For covid19, the sky is the limit. There are only a few party poopers who sealed off their borders. Never mind, once the borders reopen, the variants (new and improved covid) will ride again. Hi Ho, Silver!

 

So, fellow cruisers, what is the CDC (or any responsible government) to do?

 

USA daily covid cases March 23.JPG

This is terrific!  You nailed it.......thank you!

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Tuesday 3/23/2021 front page headline of the WSJ.  "Cruise Lines Fear Another Lost Season" .  Not much good news - "The CDC says guidance is coming soon.  Future orders and Technical instructions will address additional activities to help cruise lines prepare for and return to passenger operations in a manner that mitigates Covid-a9 risk among passengers, crew members"  spokesman Jason McDonald said, declining to comment further.  No response from the White House.  So even when the 40 pages of the rules that are already required, looks like they might give another set of rules that will be impossible to achieve, (my  opinion).)  Much longer article - try to find & read it.  Not much positive news.

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Hank is spot on.  Please do not confuse all technocrats to be public servants.  While there are a good number of valued and honorable public servants there are also those as Hank described.  And the worst thing you do with those types are to question their ‘authority’, either through political or public pressure. As Hank said they hold all the wild cards and they control the clock.  The most unforgivable sin is to suggest that their knowledge or judgement is flawed in anyway.

 

was one, so I claim first-hand knowledge and dealt with the regulatory folks in the FDA often.

 

Dennis

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Between the vaccines and the much better therapeutics, I think they could get moving in a controlled manner.  Just my opinion...and I was quite vocal at the beginning of last year as to the need to shut down before they did so.

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We are definitely on two different planets. I hope the other planet never has to address the consequences of a mutation that defeats the current vaccines. The only prevention is to minimize the number of cases as every transmission is an opportunity for a new mutation. This doesn't appear to be a consideration on the other planet. It is not as though this is not understood in the science. The virus is guided by its survival not by economics, our survival or vacations. At the moment, it appears better at its role than we are ours.

 

Jobs 1, 2 and 3 must be to reduce worldwide transmissions. Anything else is courting catastrophe. Again what am I missing.

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7 hours ago, Himself said:

In my opinion, THe CDC has too much power.  Thet do not put this on Hotels, resorts, Airplanes or trains.  All of this is for  a virus that 97% of those who get it will fully recover.

The CDC doesn't have any real control over hotels and resorts. Those are the responsibility of state and local health departments. Planes have some of the best ventilation filtration systems in the world. Compare the number of cases on cruise ships, and those on airplanes. The number is vastly different.

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11 minutes ago, john2003 said:

We are definitely on two different planets. I hope the other planet never has to address the consequences of a mutation that defeats the current vaccines. The only prevention is to minimize the number of cases as every transmission is an opportunity for a new mutation. This doesn't appear to be a consideration on the other planet. It is not as though this is not understood in the science. The virus is guided by its survival not by economics, our survival or vacations. At the moment, it appears better at its role than we are ours.

 

Jobs 1, 2 and 3 must be to reduce worldwide transmissions. Anything else is courting catastrophe. Again what am I missing.

 

I guess I'm just seeing so many other venues where mutations might happen; the cruise ships don't seem to be the worst possible venue.   They can now almost offer a safer way to congregate -- all persons vaccinated.  

Nobody has really been doing Jobs 1, 2 and 3, imho.

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3 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Anyone have pictures of Miami Beach.

Which pictures? The ones the MSM have been showing which turned out to be from 2019, shame on the MSM, but so typical.... all agenda driven! 

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