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CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions


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The ruling was made based on the facts on March 24, 2021.  The facts may change for either the positive or the negative as we go and any decision made now may change. Our behavior in terms of vaccination and social distancing may influence the direction of any future decisions. 

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13 minutes ago, mnocket said:

Conditional Sail Order to remain in place until November 2021.  I'm growing increasingly disappointed in CDC.

 

https://www.tradewindsnews.com/cruise-and-ferry/cdc-denies-cruise-sectors-request-to-lift-us-sailing-restrictions-by-july/2-1-986849

The cruises in Asia are operating with strict government oversight. The cruises in Europe is operating with strict government oversight in accordance to detailed plans.  The cruise out of Israel the same.

 

The cruises out of the small Caribbean nations apparently are going to operate without any government oversight beyond the nations requirements for entry into the country.

 

As of yet there is no sign of a cruise line proactively submitting a detailed plan to the CDC on how they will restart cruising out of the US.  After all if the cruise lines really wanted to pick up support it would be to present such as detailed plan, publicize it and force the CDC to respond to each point that they disagree with. Yet none have done so.  Only generalities about what they would do.  They complain and point at the CDC, yet no action taken to draft and submit proposals.

 

It is my belief that the cruise lines will not do so and will not sail out of the US as long as the CDC has oversight and has to approve cruise line operations and requires detailed health reporting (which basically makes the health statistics available to the public under FOA).

 

 

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If 100% accurate, it's not surprising. But for some context here, if there were major revelations to be made, the CDC wasn't going to make the announcement to Trade Winds shipping news. 

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4 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

If 100% accurate, it's not surprising. But for some context here, if there were major revelations to be made, the CDC wasn't going to make the announcement to Trade Winds shipping news. 

My bad.  I posted the first link I found.  Here's a better link.

 

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/cdc-affirms-nov-1-date-cruise-resumption-carnival-royal-caribbean-norwegian

 

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I have come to expect this from the CDC. I have no trust in their decisions or recommendations. They appear to be just another bureaucratic agency with a political agenda and a bias against the cruise industry. If they were operating from a scientific point of view the airlines, amusement parks, big box stores, etc would be held to the same standard.

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1 minute ago, cltnccruisers said:

Don't see anything on cdc.gov yet. 

 

There isn't going to be anything. There was no announcement or big news. They simply responded by saying what's in place currently isn't going anywhere. That may change tomorrow. Who knows. 

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Posted (edited)

What I don't understand is the 4 phases they say are required by the conditional sail order.  I understand the first phase was getting the crew cases under control and metrics to allow them to use public transport (or not) depending on the status of the individual ships.   This has been in place since last summer.   Now Phase 2 is still being reviewed.   Does anybody know what phase 2 includes.   What about 3 & 4?

 

I have read the Conditional Sail Order many times and understand the criteria for updating medical facilities and doing test cruises etc.  I just don't see any obvious phase 1,2,3,4 requirements.

 

Also as the document stays in force I think it should be updated to take into account changes in the last several months including vaccines.  I'm not saying open up sailings from the US by July but it would be nice to understand where the bar is according to "science".

 

Personally I'm not comfortable with Celebrity operating out of St Maarten.  I don't believe any line has home ported there before and I'm sure there is little oversight from that government and Celebrity is doing the they feel will make them successful.

Edited by wrk2cruise
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6 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

What I don't understand is the 4 phases they say are required by the conditional sail order.  I understand the first phase was getting the crew cases under control and metrics to allow them to use public transport (or not) depending on the status of the individual ships.   This has been in place since last summer.   Now Phase 2 is still being reviewed.   Does anybody know what phase 2 includes.   What about 3 & 4?

 

I have read the Conditional Sail Order many times and understand the criteria for updating medical facilities and doing test cruises etc.  I just don't see any obvious phase 1,2,3,4 requirements.

 

Phase 2 was supposed to cover cruise lines securing contracts and facilities to accommodate quarantine requirements, healthcare, transportation in case of an outbreak. Essentially a logistics plan to prevent a Princess situation from happening again. It's exactly the type of plan we haven't seen from Royal or Celebrity yet with their new sailings. 

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Posted (edited)

But what would take CDC months to define the requirements for that.  I could see how it would take the Cruise Lines awhile to negotiate these things and respond.  But what I heard the CDC director say the Phase 2 requirements were still being reviewed and no time frame given.

 

Is there a document which outlines the phases and what's included in each?

Edited by wrk2cruise
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I’ll just wait until the Lines start cruising and hope my Nov ‘21 X cruise goes and if not, I’ll change. I’m not qualified to 2nd guess the CDC or the cruise lines. And comparing a cruise with thousands on board an ‘enclosed building’ for a week or so while visiting numerous ports with airline flights, outdoor amusement parks and big stores is ‘interesting’. But go ahead.

 

After 30min in my local grocery store while wearing a mask I get nervous, but that’s because I’m a woose. Kind of an impact of living through a Pandemic which hasn’t subsided.....yet.  

 

Den

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7 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

But what would take CDC months to define the requirements for that.  I could see how it would take the Cruise Lines awhile to negotiate these things and respond.  But what I heard the CDC director say the Phase 2 requirements were still being reviewed and no time frame given.

 

Is there a document which outlines the phases and what's included in each?

 

I think the CDC is completly unaffected by whoever and whatever 'pressure' people think they are applying. Their job is preventing and controlling disease. They are looking at data and satisfying particular milestones before any more decisions are made. They have been consistent since March 2020. 

 

There is nothing out that I have ever found that details tentative future phases, which is also why it's not accurate to say this is all upon the CDC. Yes they issued the order, but we don't know with any degree of fact who else is involved in the process. 

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14 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

Phase 2 was supposed to cover cruise lines securing contracts and facilities to accommodate quarantine requirements, healthcare, transportation in case of an outbreak. Essentially a logistics plan to prevent a Princess situation from happening again. It's exactly the type of plan we haven't seen from Royal or Celebrity yet with their new sailings. 

Have NCL, Carnival, Princess, etc submitted  that type of plan??   If the hang-up was just a logistics plan then I would think that at least one of the cruise lines would have developed a plan that would move them closer to sailing.  Are they waiting for every cruise line to submit a plan?   I'm becoming convinced that the CDC isn't interested in spending any time on this.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Have NCL, Carnival, Princess, etc submitted  that type of plan??   If the hang-up was just a logistics plan then I would think that at least one of the cruise lines would have developed a plan that would move them closer to sailing.  Are they waiting for every cruise line to submit a plan?   I'm becoming convinced that the CDC isn't interested in spending any time on this.

I believe this is the issue. The CDC is running ragged trying to manage pandemic issues for 350 million Americans and has little time to spare for a relatively small group of special interest people aka cruisers. Not sure it is reasonable to expect them to drop everything to facilitate, what, 50,000 or 100,000 of us to get to cruise when they are still battling a very active pandemic for the entire nation. 
 

I want to cruise as much as the rest of you, but I am understanding of where we fit in the grand scheme.

 

BobJ

Edited by johnbob7
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The only place  I've heard of 4 phases was in Dr. Walensky's testimony last week. 

 

There was an Executive Order issued on January 21st that tasked a number of organizations with actions on international travel, with deadlines for replies and coordination requirements. Her comments match some of those coordination requirements. I think the reason we can't find four phases is she spoke out of school and cited something pre-decisional (not yet approved or released) that's at the White House level.

 

If anyone's found something else, then I could be wrong, but that makes sense.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Have NCL, Carnival, Princess, etc submitted  that type of plan??   If the hang-up was just a logistics plan then I would think that at least one of the cruise lines would have developed a plan that would move them closer to sailing.  Are they waiting for every cruise line to submit a plan?   I'm becoming convinced that the CDC isn't interested in spending any time on this.

 

RCG and NCL are apparently still working together. No clue about Carnival or Princess but I've definitely never seen anything. Carnival has even more hoops to jump through due to their past environmental mishaps. 

 

11 minutes ago, johnbob7 said:

I believe this is the issue. The CDC is running ragged trying to manage pandemic issues for 350 million Americans and has little time to spare for a relatively small group of special interest people aka cruisers. Not sure it is reasonable to expect them to drop everything to facilitate, what, 50,000 or 100,000 of us to get to cruise when they are still battling a very active pandemic for the entire nation. 
 

I want to cruise as much as the rest of you, but I am understanding of where we fit in the grand scheme.

 

BobJ

 

Read page 7 forward on this document from 2020. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/No-Sail-Order-Cruise-Ships-Second-Extension_07_16_2020-p.pdf

 

I'm pretty sure this is the point the CDC felt like they were babysitting a bunch of idiots and had enough.

Edited by paulh84
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

RCG and NCL are apparently still working together. No clue about Carnival or Princess but I've definitely never seen anything. Carnival has even more hoops to jump through due to their past environmental mishaps. 

 

 

Read page 7 forward on this document from April 2020. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/No-Sail-Order-Cruise-Ships-Second-Extension_07_16_2020-p.pdf

 

I'm pretty sure this is the point the CDC felt like they were babysitting a bunch of idiots and had enough.

Seems to me the cruise lines and CLIA have not done very much to help themselves in this regard.  Submit a formal plan to the CDC already, let them review it as a starting point. Going to the Caribbean is all well and good but their protocols are not and will not be anything like in the US, they need money, I get it, but 40-50% capacity, might pay the interest on their huge loans but not much more. 

Edited by LGW59
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8 minutes ago, markeb said:

The only place  I've heard of 4 phases was in Dr. Walensky's testimony last week. 

 

There was an Executive Order issued on January 21st that tasked a number of organizations with actions on international travel, with deadlines for replies and coordination requirements. Her comments match some of those coordination requirements. I think the reason we can't find four phases is she spoke out of school and cited something pre-decisional (not yet approved or released) that's at the White House level.

 

If anyone's found something else, then I could be wrong, but that makes sense.

 

The original CSO didn't necessarily specify four distinct phases, but it did break down the process in to four potential steps. Starts the top of page 2. Of course even then it says phases are subject to change. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf

 

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12 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

The original CSO didn't necessarily specify four distinct phases, but it did break down the process in to four potential steps. Starts the top of page 2. Of course even then it says phases are subject to change. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf

 

 

Yeah, you can get four out of that. When she was talking about approvals outside of CDC, the agencies she mentioned are the coordination elements in the Executive Order. But based on counting phases out of that document, they're still at Phase 1, since there have been no simulated voyages, which look to be Phase 2. Probably not value added to try to make sense of that now. If you read the entire document, the cruise lines also need this lifted to bring ships back to service from US ports and still maintain controlled free pratique if they've been operating elsewhere not under the framework. Or wait for it expire.

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Posted (edited)

Now I would expect to see more ships based in Mexico or the Carribean for the season.  They were expecting to start up in July or so.

 

It does sound like November is probable for cruising to start.

Edited by NMTraveller
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37 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

RCG and NCL are apparently still working together. No clue about Carnival or Princess but I've definitely never seen anything. Carnival has even more hoops to jump through due to their past environmental mishaps. 

 

 

Read page 7 forward on this document from 2020. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/No-Sail-Order-Cruise-Ships-Second-Extension_07_16_2020-p.pdf

 

I'm pretty sure this is the point the CDC felt like they were babysitting a bunch of idiots and had enough.

Thanks for sharing. Very enlightening.

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