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CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions


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16 hours ago, nocl said:

Royal Caribbean is now getting slammed for their requirement for vaccinations for there Caribbean departures

 

Royal Caribbean says boycott of the cruise line after it announced fully vaccinated cruises is based on a 'misconception'

 

https://news.yahoo.com/royal-caribbean-says-boycott-cruise-120700142.html

 

Damned if you do damned if you don't.  

Guessing that a LOT of those involved in the 'boycott' couldn't find Port Everglades on a map and have never seen a cruise ship in person, let alone been on one. 

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8 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 

Oh, I don't know maybe because that same "trivial" business employs thousands of Americans nearly all of whom have no work right now.  

Yes and thousands of them were stuck floating around the ocean for WEEKS and WEEKS because of their employers selfish decision to set sail during a pandemic for that last dollar!

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On 3/27/2021 at 5:27 PM, bloosheep said:

Mmmm, let's see -- Disney had zero Covid outbreaks, but cruise ships quite a few. Disneyworld isn't a ship full of tiny corridors, where one sleeps no more than a few hundred feet from where one eats. The vast majority of Disneyworld is outside, where transmission is lessened by oh, I dunno, wind. Disneyworld is a largely sober experience but a good percentage of cruisers have a prepaid license to present for booze at dozens of locations.

If you want to see the detailed, 40 page PDF of sailing guidelines the CDC issued, here you go.

 

\https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf

Most of the lines at Disney World are inside, not outside.  Waiting for an hour or two in close quarters, continually passing by the same people in a winding queue.  Covid's dream environment right there.  Yet Disney has reopened with masks and physical distancing without issues.   Not sure why/how alcohol is related to covid, but have you ever been to Disney Springs (formerly Downtown Disney)?  Loaded with bars/restaurants/shops. Crowded.  No shortage of alcohol.

 

Cruise ships had outbreaks essentially because they were at ground zero before anyone knew what the virus was or how it spreads.  

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8 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Yes and thousands of them were stuck floating around the ocean for WEEKS and WEEKS because of their employers selfish decision to set sail during a pandemic for that last dollar!

 

I don't know how many cruises actually "set sail" after the pandemic began....some of those floating around were very long cruises that started before anyone really knew what was going on.  We had friends on one of those ships.  

 

The employees I am talking about are people on shore not on the ships...small businesses in Alaska and every other cruise port in the USA and every other shoreside business that affects the cruiselines.  Yes, there are thousands of them too.

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4 minutes ago, D C said:

Most of the lines at Disney World are inside, not outside.  Waiting for an hour or two in close quarters, continually passing by the same people in a winding queue.  Covid's dream environment right there.  Yet Disney has reopened with masks and physical distancing without issues.   Not sure why/how alcohol is related to covid, but have you ever been to Disney Springs (formerly Downtown Disney)?  Loaded with bars/restaurants/shops. Crowded.  No shortage of alcohol.

 

Cruise ships had outbreaks essentially because they were at ground zero before anyone knew what the virus was or how it spreads.  

 

Also Disney has seriously limited the number of people allowed, to adhere to social distancing guidelines.  

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6 hours ago, Oceangoer2 said:

JMO...but....if you can find any industries which would be totally shut down, I'd ask if ALL employees etc would be in lockdown for as long as it takes, within the building (or on a cruise ship in this case, stranded at sea) until safe to come out?

ALL of the employees are not in lockdown. There are skeleton crews on all the ships. I would guess the main office in Miami is pretty well staffed, especially the executive staff, although they have had little to no sailings for over a year. There are probably many more still working in different parts of the world.

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Just now, Gracie115 said:

 

Also Disney has seriously limited the number of people allowed, to adhere to social distancing guidelines.  

Sort of.  They're measuring relative to capacity.  Unlike a cruise ship that sails at full capacity (or nearly) with every cruise, Disney World hits capacity on ~2 days per year.  They're quite near capacity (~80-90%) for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year, and the rest of the time varies from far less than they're allowing now, so somewhat more.   I think they're around 35% right now, and I would consider that moderately busy compared to 'normal'.  Still plenty of people waiting in line, but they are physically distanced.

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9 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Yes and thousands of them were stuck floating around the ocean for WEEKS and WEEKS because of their employers selfish decision to set sail during a pandemic for that last dollar!

Sorry. You are very misinformed here. I know because I was on a two month cruise last January and February and got back just in time  before it all went South. Flew back via Singapore mid-February and wondered why everyone was wearing a mask. 

 

It all happened incredibly quickly and went bad very fast. Ships at sea with ports and borders being closed. To say that the cruise lines put crew and guests at risk so they could make money is complete nonsense. 

 

Phil 

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12 minutes ago, D C said:

Most of the lines at Disney World are inside, not outside.  Waiting for an hour or two in close quarters, continually passing by the same people in a winding queue.  Covid's dream environment right there.  Yet Disney has reopened with masks and physical distancing without issues.   Not sure why/how alcohol is related to covid, but have you ever been to Disney Springs (formerly Downtown Disney)?  Loaded with bars/restaurants/shops. Crowded.  No shortage of alcohol.

 

Cruise ships had outbreaks essentially because they were at ground zero before anyone knew what the virus was or how it spreads.  

But Disney can set up the queues such that not all of the back and forth lanes are used keeping distance between them in most places.

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10 hours ago, jagoffee said:

For all you knowledgeable people who do a lot more research than others:

 Name five industries in the US that are totally shut down across all states. (Besides cruising)

The problem is that cruising is not inside of the states.  The small ships that are inside of the states are cruising.

 

There is no single authority with the ability to shutdown businesses across all states.  There are examples of businesses shutdown within states.  One of the ones with the most widespread shutdown orders has been theaters, another is gyms.

 

Let me ask another question name 5 industries that demonstrated an R0 of 10-12 inside of their facility as was demonstrated with COVID on cruise ships in the early days.

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Quick question for the many Fla residents here.  Assuming when things do get going again that vaccinations and negative tests will be required how practical is it to expect that we could get tested in Fla en route to the embarkation port?  It has become our habit for a Saturday departure to drive part way on Thursday, stay Friday in someplace like St Augustine then head to the port Saturday.  So could we expect to be able to get a rapid test at a Publix or a CVS?

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26 minutes ago, nocl said:

The problem is that cruising is not inside of the states.  The small ships that are inside of the states are cruising.

 

There is no single authority with the ability to shutdown businesses across all states.  There are examples of businesses shutdown within states.  One of the ones with the most widespread shutdown orders has been theaters, another is gyms.

 

Let me ask another question name 5 industries that demonstrated an R0 of 10-12 inside of their facility as was demonstrated with COVID on cruise ships in the early days.

According to several UK posters on another thread, Celebrity is to resume summer sailings for UK residents only on Silhouette and crew NOT required to be vaccinated.  That is going to go over really well with the CDC.  Again, if true, but if so, they learned absolutely ZERO this past year and they deserve to be closed. 

 

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48 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

ALL of the employees are not in lockdown. There are skeleton crews on all the ships. I would guess the main office in Miami is pretty well staffed, especially the executive staff, although they have had little to no sailings for over a year. There are probably many more still working in different parts of the world.

I think the point was missed...oh well.

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8 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

According to several UK posters on another thread, Celebrity is to resume summer sailings for UK residents only on Silhouette and crew NOT required to be vaccinated.  That is going to go over really well with the CDC.  Again, if true, but if so, they learned absolutely ZERO this past year and they deserve to be closed. 

 

It is crew under 18 only that I read, everyone else to be vaccinated, same as what they are doing in St. Maarten.

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21 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

According to several UK posters on another thread, Celebrity is to resume summer sailings for UK residents only on Silhouette and crew NOT required to be vaccinated.  That is going to go over really well with the CDC.  Again, if true, but if so, they learned absolutely ZERO this past year and they deserve to be closed. 

 

If Celebrity does start up these cruises they will be from a UK Port (Southampton) and have nothing to do with the CDC.   They would need to satisfy the UK authorities.  I do agree that not mandating vaccinations for the crew is strange and unfortunate.  It would be interesting to hear an explanation from Celebrity.   What makes this even more strange is that all passengers over 18 must be vaccinated!  But not the crew?

 

Celebrity also plans to use their new Apex on cruises out of Athens beginning in June.  Anyone who goes on that new ship will be in for a real treat because it will be skippered by Captain "Demitrius" who is not only an excellent Captain but a very good comedian.   Celebrity does say that the crew on the Apex will all be vaccinated.

 

Hank

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2 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

If Celebrity does start up these cruises they will be from a UK Port (Southampton) and have nothing to do with the CDC.   They would need to satisfy the UK authorities.  I do agree that not mandating vaccinations for the crew is strange and unfortunate.  It would be interesting to hear an explanation from Celebrity.   What makes this even more strange is that all passengers over 18 must be vaccinated!  But not the crew?

 

Hank

I realize CDC has nothing to do with UK cruises, my point is, it will not bode well for the decision making going forward here in the US.  Again, IF it is true, Celebrity is...

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1 minute ago, Hlitner said:

If Celebrity does start up these cruises they will be from a UK Port (Southampton) and have nothing to do with the CDC.   They would need to satisfy the UK authorities.  I do agree that not mandating vaccinations for the crew is strange and unfortunate.  It would be interesting to hear an explanation from Celebrity.   What makes this even more strange is that all passengers over 18 must be vaccinated!  But not the crew?

 

Hank

Could be the CDC would view this as a problem with the corporate culture of Celebrity that could color their opinion of the line's protocols.  

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52 minutes ago, excitedofharpenden said:

Sorry. You are very misinformed here. I know because I was on a two month cruise last January and February and got back just in time  before it all went South. Flew back via Singapore mid-February and wondered why everyone was wearing a mask. 

 

It all happened incredibly quickly and went bad very fast. Ships at sea with ports and borders being closed. To say that the cruise lines put crew and guests at risk so they could make money is complete nonsense. 

 

Phil 

This is the email I had this morning (I live in the UK). 

 

Good Morning Philip

 

I am delighted to personally advise you that today at 9am we announced the return of the beautifully revolutionised Celebrity Silhouette to Southampton to complete a set of British Isle itineraries.

 

Unfortunately this does mean that we will be contacting all our existing June/July/August guests to advise them that their sailing is cancelled..

 

The new sailings will be on sale from next Tuesday 6th April and further released for sales on Monday 12th April.

 

Would be great to catch up if you have any questions for me please just let me know a good time and I will arrange a call.

 

Yaaa we are coming back – Cruising from Southampton from 3rd July, I know like me you will be absolutely delighted that our crew and beautiful ship will soon be here in Southampton

 

 

In the interim have a lovely week….

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Kathy Barbrooke

Director of Guest & Trade Services - UK & Ireland

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Just now, cltnccruisers said:

Could be the CDC would view this as a problem with the corporate culture of Celebrity that could color their opinion of the line's protocols.  

 

11 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

If Celebrity does start up these cruises they will be from a UK Port (Southampton) and have nothing to do with the CDC.   They would need to satisfy the UK authorities.  I do agree that not mandating vaccinations for the crew is strange and unfortunate.  It would be interesting to hear an explanation from Celebrity.   What makes this even more strange is that all passengers over 18 must be vaccinated!  But not the crew?

 

Hank

 

It's 20:30 in London. Maybe we'll hear from someone in the UK with first hand knowledge, but UK employment law is not US employment law. Perhaps they legally can't require it? Might have been a nice legal opinion to have before announcing the cruises if that's the case, but easy though it is to malign Celebrity, I suspect this is a legal thing, not a corporate decision, if verified. I suspect they're able to require vaccination of passengers as a compliance with a voluntary decision to cruise.

 

Mandating employees take a vaccine under an emergency use when they would essentially have no choice has initially been viewed as legal under US labor laws (not yet challenged in court), but that does not mean the same precedent exists in the UK.

 

You can then argue the wisdom of pushing forward if in fact you can't mandate vaccination of the crew, after I believe advertising the cruises as everyone over 18 being vaccinated.

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1 minute ago, markeb said:

 

 

It's 20:30 in London. Maybe we'll hear from someone in the UK with first hand knowledge, but UK employment law is not US employment law. Perhaps they legally can't require it? Might have been a nice legal opinion to have before announcing the cruises if that's the case, but easy though it is to malign Celebrity, I suspect this is a legal thing, not a corporate decision, if verified. I suspect they're able to require vaccination of passengers as a compliance with a voluntary decision to cruise.

 

Mandating employees take a vaccine under an emergency use when they would essentially have no choice has initially been viewed as legal under US labor laws (not yet challenged in court), but that does not mean the same precedent exists in the UK.

 

You can then argue the wisdom of pushing forward if in fact you can't mandate vaccination of the crew, after I believe advertising the cruises as everyone over 18 being vaccinated.

I trust Celebrity to have much more of a clue than some of the posters on this board!

 

Phil 

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Based on the attached Cruise&Ferry article, here is the vaccination requirements associated with the 7 other cruise lines as well as X now offering Summer 2021 "Seacations" around the UK. It appears from this article there are a few cruise lines that are not requiring any vaccinations at all. 

 

Saga - full passenger vaccinations required. Crew ??

P&O - full passenger vaccinations required. Crew ??

Fred Olsen - Unknown

Cunard - full passenger vaccinations required. Crew ??

Princess - full passenger vaccinations required. Crew ??

Viking - Doesn't appear to be required for either passengers or crew

MSC - Both vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers. Crew ??

Celebrity - full passenger vaccinations required. Crew - vaccine not required

 

Cunard, Celebrity and Saga schedule UK cruises for summer 2021 (cruiseandferry.net)

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1 minute ago, excitedofharpenden said:

I trust Celebrity to have much more of a clue than some of the posters on this board!

 

Phil 

 

I was actually wondering if you'd seen anything from Celebrity in the UK, or if this topic had blown up recently across the pond outside of cruise employees. It was a topic for awhile in the US, but hasn't come up much lately. Compulsory immunization was something of an issue in the UK at one time, and I can't recall if it mattered who was compelling.

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