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CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions


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40 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Seems to me the cruise lines and CLIA have not done very much to help themselves in this regard.  Submit a formal plan to the CDC already, let them review it as a starting point.

According to Richard Fain in an interview on March 22, this is not possible – because the CDC hasn't issued the requirements needed to compile such a plan:

"The order called for several phases, and the CDC said it would issue detailed technical rules for each phase. The first of those technical specifications, regarding the test sailings component of the order, was scheduled to be released in December. Almost three months later, they have not been produced."

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Insights/Royal-Caribbean-cruise-with-or-without-CDC?ct=cruise

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OK, this gives me a little glimmer of hope, but time will tell as to how much. Basically, from my rose colored glasses they're saying CDC (and their coordinating agencies) have the ball and they're working on a way to return to passenger cruising. CDC is not currently waiting for anything from the cruise lines.

 

According to the CDC, the CSO will remain in effect until Nov. 1, 2021, as the agency works on a way to return to passenger cruising in a phased approach to mitigate the risk of spreading COVID-19.

 

Details on the next phase of the CSO are under interagency review, according to a CDC statement.

 

CDC Says It Won't Drop Conditional Sail Order - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

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This does not bode well for our  Jan 2021 Reflection cruise to the Carib  rt  Port Everglades... This was already a "lift and shift"  from a Connie cruise RT  from TPA .We are still hoping to use our large FCC  from a  cancelled Summit cruise to make our final payment on Reflection.

 

   WHAT IFS:  

  Wonder if the final payment date would be extended?

   How long will our FCC be extended ?

   If we apply the FCC to final payment  for the Jan 2022 cruise,  what would         happen if  X cancelled that cruise b/c of CDC  non approval???? 

   Will there be another round of lift and shift?

  Could they move Reflection to Nassau Bahamas...? We would be okay flying   there..

 

Cruises from the US are apparently  very disfavored compared to Disney and similar resorts.,,Guess the  CDD has no control over the current Spring Break  disgrace in Miami, which is  appears to be a "health emergency"...,,., huge crowds, no masks, no controls...not to mention destructive violence!

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2 hours ago, txart said:

I have come to expect this from the CDC. I have no trust in their decisions or recommendations. They appear to be just another bureaucratic agency with a political agenda and a bias against the cruise industry. If they were operating from a scientific point of view the airlines, amusement parks, big box stores, etc would be held to the same standard.

One slight problem.  CDC has NO authority on anything such as amusement parks, big box stores, etc that operate INSIDE of a given state. Any authority there resides with the state.  CDC can recommend, but not enforce.

 

They could limit airlines, but airlines unlike cruise lines do have an element of essential travel.

 

US law limits their authority to the national boarder and travel between states when local authorities have not taken sufficient action to limit spread.

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54 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

According to Richard Fain in an interview on March 22, this is not possible – because the CDC hasn't issued the requirements needed to compile such a plan:

"The order called for several phases, and the CDC said it would issue detailed technical rules for each phase. The first of those technical specifications, regarding the test sailings component of the order, was scheduled to be released in December. Almost three months later, they have not been produced."

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Insights/Royal-Caribbean-cruise-with-or-without-CDC?ct=cruise

There is nothing that would prevent a cruise line from preparing a plan, submitting it to the CDC and then forcing them to react to it and address the points one by one.  Or at least respond that they are not ready to review the plan.  That would clearly identify the issues and put the target clearly on the CDC.

 

Instead all the cruise lines are saying is we cannot do anything because we are waiting for the CDC.

 

Considering that RCL is starting in the Caribbean in a few months they haven't exactly presented detailed protocols to their customers just the same fuzziness.

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10 minutes ago, hcat said:

This does not bode well for our  Jan 2021 Reflection cruise to the Carib  rt  Port Everglades... This was already a "lift and shift"  from a Connie cruise RT  from TPA .We are still hoping to use our large FCC  from a  cancelled Summit cruise to make our final payment on Reflection.

 

   WHAT IFS:  

  Wonder if the final payment date would be extended?

   How long will our FCC be extended ?

   If we apply the FCC to final payment  for the Jan 2022 cruise,  what would         happen if  X cancelled that cruise b/c of CDC  non approval???? 

   Will there be another round of lift and shift?

  Could they move Reflection to Nassau Bahamas...? We would be okay flying   there..

 

Cruises from the US are apparently  very disfavored compared to Disney and similar resorts.,,Guess the  CDD has no control over the current Spring Break  disgrace in Miami, which is  appears to be a "health emergency"...,,., huge crowds, no masks, no controls...not to mention destructive violence!

CDC has no control over Spring Break in Miami.  They have no enforcement authority inside any state.  They can recommend (and what is happening in Miami is clearly not in line with their recommendations) but they cannot enforce.  You need to talk to the Governor of Florida about that.

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1 hour ago, nocl said:

CDC has no control over Spring Break in Miami.  They have no enforcement authority inside any state.  They can recommend (and what is happening in Miami is clearly not in line with their recommendations) but they cannot enforce.  You need to talk to the Governor of Florida about that.

I understand CDC has no authority over many things,  but seem to issue many opinions and guidance.  Recently  they changed distance recs for students in classrooms which is having a big impact on planned school re openings.....less space needed, makes it more feasible.  etc. 

 

CdC seems to start from a premise that cruising is just a poor option...in many ways they are correct.  Hope the cruises outside the US are successful..and show it can work,

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Has anyone seen a primary source on any of this? Or is this just a standard PAO response to a random email inquiry? I see nothing on the CDC web page. Is there a copy of the industry request?

 

This looks more and more like much ado about nothing. The order remains in effect would be a correct and meaningless statement. 

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Just now, markeb said:

Has anyone seen a primary source on any of this? Or is this just a standard PAO response to a random email inquiry? I see nothing on the CDC web page. Is there a copy of the industry request?

 

This looks more and more like much ado about nothing. The order remains in effect would be a correct and meaningless statement. 

CLIA requested the CDC drop the CSO non sense and let cruising return. The CDC said "Get Lost".

 

Cruise Lines International Association, the main lobbying group for cruise companies including Carnival, issued a statement earlier Wednesday calling for the CDC to drop the order and agree to let U.S. sailings resume by July.

 

But in an emailed response to questions, the CDC said the so-called Framework for Conditional Sailing Order, or CSO, remains in effect.

“Returning to passenger cruising is a phased approach to mitigate the risk of spreading Covid-19,” the CDC said. “Details for the next phase of the CSO are currently under interagency review.”

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

CLIA requested the CDC drop the CSO non sense and let cruising return. The CDC said "Get Lost".

 

Cruise Lines International Association, the main lobbying group for cruise companies including Carnival, issued a statement earlier Wednesday calling for the CDC to drop the order and agree to let U.S. sailings resume by July.

 

But in an emailed response to questions, the CDC said the so-called Framework for Conditional Sailing Order, or CSO, remains in effect.

“Returning to passenger cruising is a phased approach to mitigate the risk of spreading Covid-19,” the CDC said. “Details for the next phase of the CSO are currently under interagency review.”


No. That’s a factual answer. Emailed to who? The cruise press? There would be a formal response to a formal request. That’s a public affairs response to a press inquiry. 

Edited by markeb
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This seems logical to me. CDC has still not approved sailings from U.S. ports, including test sailings.

So, here's the scoop. Royal and Celebrity are cruising the Caribbean from June through August. Nice seven night itineraries I might add and open to all travelers. These cruises will be considered the test cruises for R & X. At the same time, there will be no Europe, Alaska or Asia cruising through October 2021. Between gathering data from the Caribbean cruises and planning future cruising across the RCG fleet from that data, November would be the logical earliest date that global sailing would resume. Other than the June through August Caribbean cruises, I would disregard any other offerings from R & X. So many variables to factor, including of course worldwide ports-of-call and their readiness for cruise ships.    

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1 minute ago, hcat said:

I understand CDC has no authority over many things,  but seem to issue many opinions and guidance.  Recently  they changed distance recs for students in classrooms which is having a big impact on planned school re openings.....less space needed, makes it more feasible.  etc. 

 

CdC seems to start from a premise that cruising is just a poor option...in many ways they are correct.  Hope the cruises outside the US are successful..and show it can work,

Well if you read the Conditional Sailing Order document you will see why.  The fact that the Diamond Princess had an R0 of in the 12-14 range, a level higher then even with family members in the same household.  The experiences of the cruise ships at the start of the pandemic  provided a fair amount of information and the spread of an airborne infection on cruise ships certainly has something to do with it. Strike 1

 

Couple that with the fact that cruising has inside dinning, bars, lounges, and probably a higher density of people per square foot to most people living in institutions, areas that were recommended to be shut down or restricted. Strike 2

 

Cruising by its very nature is a form of non-essential travel.  One of the means for controlling spread is to limit travel. People traveling will come into contact with more people than those staying in their home area (people at home tend to interact with the same set in the same locations). If someone is infected they can carry variant from their home out, or from their travel location back home.  As such non-essential travel has been discouraged by the CDC. Strike 3.

 

The CDC will change their mind when the disease incidence is down significantly, when the level of infections is not rapidly generating new variants that threaten the benefit of the vaccines, and there is experience in the real world on the effectiveness and duration of the vaccines.

 

Again what I come back to is if the cruise lines really want to sail out of the US, they should be proactive and generate detailed policies and plans on exactly what they would do.  Make the CDC respond to the proposals, but not one large cruise line has done so in the US.

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11 minutes ago, markeb said:

Has anyone seen a primary source on any of this? Or is this just a standard PAO response to a random email inquiry? I see nothing on the CDC web page. Is there a copy of the industry request?

 

This looks more and more like much ado about nothing. The order remains in effect would be a correct and meaningless statement. 

 

I scoured Google and the only thing that comes up is this response to TradeWinds News emailing such a basic question. This is a non-event that the newswires picked up quicker than people here did.

 

"On October 30, 2020, CDC issued Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) that remains in effect until November 1, 2021," the CDC told TradeWinds in an email on Wednesday. 

 

https://www.tradewindsnews.com/cruise-and-ferry/cdc-denies-cruise-sectors-request-to-lift-us-sailing-restrictions-by-july/2-1-986849

 

So this publication asked, CDC responded with a canned answer....now it's reignited all of these stories. Is there an actual CDC statement or quote from a person somewhere??? Until then.....

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2 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

This seems logical to me. CDC has still not approved sailings from U.S. ports, including test sailings.

So, here's the scoop. Royal and Celebrity are cruising the Caribbean from June through August. Nice seven night itineraries I might add and open to all travelers. These cruises will be considered the test cruises for R & X. At the same time, there will be no Europe, Alaska or Asia cruising through October 2021. Between gathering data from the Caribbean cruises and planning future cruising across the RCG fleet from that data, November would be the logical earliest date that global sailing would resume. Other than the June through August Caribbean cruises, I would disregard any other offerings from R & X. So many variables to factor, including of course worldwide ports-of-call and their readiness for cruise ships.    

Another thing to consider is usually during the summer about the only cruises out of the US are to Alaska.  Summer is off season for the Caribbean and very few cruises (most lines none) take place there during these months.  You get the New England cruises in the fall and the Mexican and Hawaii cruises start up after the Alaskan season ends.  The Caribbean cruises normally start up in the fall when the ships return from Europe from the Alaska season.

 

So the real impact to the US cruise season, with Alaska unavailable due to the Canadian lockout, the real impact would be in October/November time frame pretty much when the order expires.

 

The inability to cruise in Europe and Alaska (neither a function of the CDC) is the real impact for May-September.

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Just now, paulh84 said:

 

I scoured Google and the only thing that comes up is this response to TradeWinds News emailing such a basic question. This is a non-event that the newswires picked up quicker than people here did.

 

"On October 30, 2020, CDC issued Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) that remains in effect until November 1, 2021," the CDC told TradeWinds in an email on Wednesday. 

 

https://www.tradewindsnews.com/cruise-and-ferry/cdc-denies-cruise-sectors-request-to-lift-us-sailing-restrictions-by-july/2-1-986849

 

So this publication asked, CDC responded with a canned answer....now it's reignited all of these stories. Is there an actual CDC statement or quote from a person somewhere??? Until then.....


Exactly. This probably came out of the PAO smart book. They probably would have cleared it with a subject matter expert in the responsible section, but this is a 15 minute non-event. 
 

if CLIA or a CEO sent a formal request, they’d get a formal reply. Thank you for your recent inquiry... Signed out at an appropriate assistant director level. Not seeing that. And yes, I’ve done those letters in DOD. 

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1 minute ago, PTC DAWG said:

Meanwhile, in my area, cases are down to basically nil.

 

 

Good now when the entire country gets like that cruising will restart

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12 minutes ago, nocl said:

Good now when the entire country gets like that cruising will restart

Not if the 'Can Decimate* Cruising' agency can stop it!

 

* and yes, I know that 100% is far greater than the 10% the Romans meant by this, but I've given up on this one...

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7 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Not if the 'Can Decimate Cruising' agency can stop it!

 

5 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Nonsense.

 

Say that with a straight face after what they tried to do to American Cruise Lines – stopping a cruise that doesn't even come under their jurisdiction (because US line, US ports and under the size limit).  They are anti-cruise.  At some point you will have to admit it.

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