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CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions


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Here is a question for those of you that do not like how the CDC is handling things.

 

How long do you think it will be before Australia and New Zealand actually open up not only for cruises, but even for travelers to enter the country?

 

After all they historically do not tend to vaccinate at level higher than the US.  So that would leave large segments of their population unprotected, with few cases of immunity from prior infection.

 

Rather unlikely that they are going to open up soon, probably not for a long time after the US since they will be far more at risk from the virus getting loose than the US.

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21 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Hardly.  If the latest number posted was accurate, that is approx 16 per 100K population, which is relatively low compared to course of the pandemic.

Compared to our Covid numbers they are ‘mind blowing’. Stay safe Steelers36. Vicki. 🙂 

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I pulled this link from Royal Caribbean website;  does this look like the company is trying to comply with the CDC health standards?  I don't know exactly what the CDC is asking for; so I figure someone on this thread may know.  Thanks and have a nice weekend.

The Healthy Sail Center | Healthy & Safe Cruises | Royal Caribbean Cruises

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24 minutes ago, AF-1 said:

I pulled this link from Royal Caribbean website;  does this look like the company is trying to comply with the CDC health standards?  I don't know exactly what the CDC is asking for; so I figure someone on this thread may know.  Thanks and have a nice weekend.

The Healthy Sail Center | Healthy & Safe Cruises | Royal Caribbean Cruises

Nope.  Just more obfuscation by the PR folks written at the 6th grade level.

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8 hours ago, nocl said:

Here is a question for those of you that do not like how the CDC is handling things.

 

How long do you think it will be before Australia and New Zealand actually open up not only for cruises, but even for travelers to enter the country?

 

After all they historically do not tend to vaccinate at level higher than the US.  So that would leave large segments of their population unprotected, with few cases of immunity from prior infection.

 

Rather unlikely that they are going to open up soon, probably not for a long time after the US since they will be far more at risk from the virus getting loose than the US.

I believe that Australia and New Zealand is still waiting to receive adequate supplies of vaccines.

 

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Having decided not to continue with the back and forth with several individuals, I must admit that I have been watching from the background and reading the post of several people has brought me to ask this question:  To those of you who are posting as if you are experts in cruise line financial statistics, state and federal budgets, medical response to viruses and the COVID numbers; those of you who condemn the cruise lines response to COVID and whom continuously state that the cruise lines are only about the money, don't care about passenger's health or wellbeing, do everything to avoid taxes, regulation and instruction, why are you on a web site designed for those who enjoy cruising, enjoy talking about the different ships, entertainment, food, ports of call and meeting others?  Having looked back at some of your earlier post, it is obvious that you are not fans of cruising or the cruise line operations.  

Speaking for myself, I sure do wish you posters would find another way to voice your displeasure and stop raining on my parade.  I for one am looking forward to getting back to cruising, meeting up with old friends and making new ones and enjoy a great vacation after a year of worry.

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10 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Here you are pattering on about MERS and SARS. You're not an expert on Epidemiology. Nor are you an expert on the long-haul casualties of covid19. What do you know about the 'facts'?

 

The UK variant is currently ravaging Europe, after doing a job on the UK. Ontario is doubling its cases as the UK variant becomes dominant. The USA is just weeks behind Europe, as in the second wave.

 

You should be grateful that the CDC today has an eye on the ball.

 

Where did the UK variant start? First identified in Kent. Took root in this resort island of 40k...

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-uk-variant/

 

From its humble beginnings, this variant will infect millions and kill hundreds of thousands.

 

The vax-resistant strains are next. The next big one could be 'Made in Florida', courtesy of the people of Florida.

 

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No need to be insulting, just because you have a difference in opinion.

My facts stand.

In respect to the variants, I have not seen any articles that shows that the vaccines currently available, especially the Pfizer and Moderna which uses mRNA technology, to be ineffective against the variants, especially when we include moderate to severe complications.

In Florida we have seen a plateau in rates, but the mortality rate is definitely decreasing.  In addition, median age of infection has shifted from the elderly who, historically,  have the most serious complications, to the young-middle age which can better "weather" the virus.  This is at least partially due to the fact that in Florida, the Governor has been very aggressive in getting the elderly vaccinated.

In addition, one must realize that in no other disease have we ever done testing so many times on so many people.  We routinely send any individual who has a fever, or "body ache" for a Covid test.  Fortunately most times these testss are negative.

A positive test indicates that an individual has been infected, an in fact with the PCR, that the individual has had contact with the virus.  It does not indicate the severity of infection.  We do need for statistical purposes to bring down infection with Covid to include categories such as infected but asymptomatic, mild infection, moderate infection, and severe infection. 

When one looks at the State of Florida Covid Data Base which is a good reflection of the disease in general, one will notice that Emergency Room visits for "Flu-Like Illness" which does cover Covid are declining. 

In addition, the hospitals in Central Florida have gone to Condition Green and show a decline in both number of admissions, and of even more importance hospital days secondary to Covid.

One of the reasons to talk about SARS and MERS, my friend, is because these are also CoronaVirus called illnesses.  

Anyway, thanks for your reply and permitting me to continue to our discussion. 

Lets just keep it civil.

You do seem very knowledgeable and you have done your research.  Might I take the liberty to ask if you are a physician or a researcher.

 

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20 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

On the other hand cruise lines have all the expertise in the wold on COVID-19, employ epidemiologist and embark them on cruise ships.  I think we know what kind of "expertise" cruise lines have from their wonderful responses with the poster child being Diamond Princess and its 700 cases.

 

Cruise line just want to take your money and couldn't give a horse's pitute about you safety unless it impacts their profits.

Actually we did learn a great deal in respect to what occurred on the Diamond Princess.

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1 hour ago, stevenr597 said:



In respect to the variants, I have not seen any articles that shows that the vaccines currently available, especially the Pfizer and Moderna which uses mRNA technology, to be ineffective against the variants, especially when we include moderate to severe complications.





 

At first reading, I was confused by that paragraph. Then I realized there was a double negative, not and ineffective. Am I now reading you correctly that the Moderna (which we have had our 2 shots) and Pfizer do seem to be effective against the variants so far?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, AF-1 said:

Thanks

🤣 ...  AF-1, some thing tells me that particular individual would have a hard time  puttin' up his feet with a martini in hand listening to Crosby Stills & Nash or some smooth jazz.

Edited by c-boy
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3 hours ago, AF-1 said:

I pulled this link from Royal Caribbean website;  does this look like the company is trying to comply with the CDC health standards?  I don't know exactly what the CDC is asking for; so I figure someone on this thread may know.  Thanks and have a nice weekend.

The Healthy Sail Center | Healthy & Safe Cruises | Royal Caribbean Cruises

Even the Healthy Sail Panel's recommendations are not the detailed action/response plan that is required by the CDC, merely general recommendations. 

 

One thing I note is that all the cruise lines tout "100% fresh air" is introduced to the ship, but then say that the air is only exchanged 12-15 times an hour, which is pretty much HVAC industry standard, and no change from what was done before on ships.  Then they mention "fan coil units" that "continuously scrub the air", which are air recirculation units, so there is still the dreaded boogey-man of recirculated air.  The air contamination study that they quote as saying that cross-contamination is almost non-existent, did not study any "new" system on a ship, just a standard system.  Most of the HEPA filter moves are mainly PR, as even ASHRAE admits HEPA filters in large systems are not shown to have any benefit.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, stevenr597 said:

Lets hope that we see a steady decline in the morbity and mortality rates.  

 

Hope is not a plan.

 

The CDC has a plan. So, let's not jump the gun. Stick to the plan.

 

By June, every American adult who wants a jab will have at least one dose. In addition, there's this...

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/26/do-you-need-to-wear-masks-after-covid-vaccine-new-nih-backed-study-hopes-to-answer-that.html?recirc=taboolainternal

 

What's the point of being 'hopeful' today? What does the CDC say about reopening too soon? What should be your priorities until November? 

Edited by HappyInVan
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On 3/26/2021 at 1:31 PM, scottca075 said:

 

I think Diamond Princess did a great job. Out of 3,700 people on board in cramped quarters with no protective gear at all and not enough medical gear (respirators) they managed to keep the outbreak down to only 700 and only 14 deaths and the average age of those people was 78. We don't know what other underlying conditions they might have had.

 

The crew and staff of the Diamond Princess did all this when we knew virtually nothing about the disease. They deserve medals for what they did.

I think that most people forget that *Japan* was responsible for quarantining the Diamond, not Princess. I had to do a search to see if I remembered correctly. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7156812/

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On 3/24/2021 at 6:01 PM, stevenr597 said:

The CDC has lost its way.  They have become a political organization, no longer basing their decisions on the science. 

Do not understand.  Are you implying that cruising right now is supported by science?  Both the USA  and Canada are likely beginning a 3rd wave of this cursed virus now due to these darn variants and looser behavior.

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13 hours ago, stevenr597 said:

Actually we did learn a great deal in respect to what occurred on the Diamond Princess.

If you have not seen it look up the documentary that was done by the Japanese network.  It went through in very good detail infection patterns, rooms locations (no trend in room locations), timing of infections, issues with crew training, etc.

 

very good information.

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14 hours ago, AF-1 said:

I pulled this link from Royal Caribbean website;  does this look like the company is trying to comply with the CDC health standards?  I don't know exactly what the CDC is asking for; so I figure someone on this thread may know.  Thanks and have a nice weekend.

The Healthy Sail Center | Healthy & Safe Cruises | Royal Caribbean Cruises

The healthy sail document consists of pretty high level recommendations.  For example it might recommend lower capacity. The question then is exactly how is lower capacity going to be accomplished?  A recommendation might recommending testing.  Again exactly how, when where, done by whom, what type test, etc.

 

The Devil is in the details so to speak.

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14 hours ago, stevenr597 said:

I believe that Australia and New Zealand is still waiting to receive adequate supplies of vaccines.

 

Yes, but the question is if 60% of their population gets vaccinated and the rest of the population, which unlike the US, was not really exposed to many cases of the virus, would be at risk when they decide to open up to outside travelers.  Actually makes for an interesting problem.  They kept their numbers low by locking down, but even with vaccinations if they do get get a higher number than normal, opening will be an interesting challenge.  

 

The US might reach herd immunity through vaccination and the relatively large number of cases that we have hand.  Australia without the cases will not reach it with their normal vaccination patterns alone.

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14 hours ago, whitecap said:

Having decided not to continue with the back and forth with several individuals, I must admit that I have been watching from the background and reading the post of several people has brought me to ask this question:  To those of you who are posting as if you are experts in cruise line financial statistics, state and federal budgets, medical response to viruses and the COVID numbers; those of you who condemn the cruise lines response to COVID and whom continuously state that the cruise lines are only about the money, don't care about passenger's health or wellbeing, do everything to avoid taxes, regulation and instruction, why are you on a web site designed for those who enjoy cruising, enjoy talking about the different ships, entertainment, food, ports of call and meeting others?  Having looked back at some of your earlier post, it is obvious that you are not fans of cruising or the cruise line operations.  

Speaking for myself, I sure do wish you posters would find another way to voice your displeasure and stop raining on my parade.  I for one am looking forward to getting back to cruising, meeting up with old friends and making new ones and enjoy a great vacation after a year of worry.

Prior to the pandemic I spent over 100 days on cruise ships the year prior and had 8 cruises scheduled for 2020.

 

The pandemic and the associated issues are the biggest impact on cruising today.

 

If you don't care about the discussion you can always not read the topic.

 

The pandemic is pretty unique, the impact on cruising is unique.  100 years from now they will still probably be debating pro and cons of actions taken or not taken by different groups.

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14 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Hope is not a plan.

 

The CDC has a plan. So, let's not jump the gun. Stick to the plan.

 

By June, every American adult who wants a jab will have at least one dose. In addition, there's this...

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/26/do-you-need-to-wear-masks-after-covid-vaccine-new-nih-backed-study-hopes-to-answer-that.html?recirc=taboolainternal

 

What's the point of being 'hopeful' today? What does the CDC say about reopening too soon? What should be your priorities until November? 

Have to disagree in that while the CDC did have some excellent protocols for managing Pandemics; h early on they decided not to go with establish protocols.  

Dr. Fauci, the NIH and the CDC relied too much on the World Health Organization, and the government of China in respect to how serious a risk the Novel Coronavirus posed to the world.  In respect to development of an effective test for detection of Coronavirus, wearing face masks early on, and other methods of mitigation they, to be diplomatic, were "late getting out of the gate." 

Unfortunately, although there are indeed many fine individuals working for the CDC, NIH, and one can easily see that Dr. Fauci is indeed a brilliant individual, these organizations have to a certain extent became politicized.

A good example is that the Former Director of the CDC Robert Redfield stated, " I am of the point of view that I still think the most likely etiology of this pathogen in Wuhan was from a laboratory which escaped. It is not unusual for respiratory pathogens that are being worked on in the laboratory to infect the laboratory worker." 

Dr. Redfield commented that he is free to state this because he was no longer in the service of the government. 

But we do learn from our mistakes, and at least in the United States we are pushing ahead very aggressively with administration of vaccines to the population.  We are beginning at this time I am writing this to immunize all adults, and studies have now begun on children.

Together with the generation of a natural herd immunity, and more effective means to treat individuals who have moderate to severe disease,  we are already starting to see a decrease in the mortality rate, and can hopefully expect to see a decrease in individuals testing positive in the future.  

 

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23 hours ago, whitecap said:

Having decided not to continue with the back and forth with several individuals, I must admit that I have been watching from the background and reading the post of several people has brought me to ask this question:  To those of you who are posting as if you are experts in cruise line financial statistics, state and federal budgets, medical response to viruses and the COVID numbers; those of you who condemn the cruise lines response to COVID and whom continuously state that the cruise lines are only about the money, don't care about passenger's health or wellbeing, do everything to avoid taxes, regulation and instruction, why are you on a web site designed for those who enjoy cruising, enjoy talking about the different ships, entertainment, food, ports of call and meeting others?  Having looked back at some of your earlier post, it is obvious that you are not fans of cruising or the cruise line operations.  

Speaking for myself, I sure do wish you posters would find another way to voice your displeasure and stop raining on my parade.  I for one am looking forward to getting back to cruising, meeting up with old friends and making new ones and enjoy a great vacation after a year of worry.

Best post of the entire thread.

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15 minutes ago, Roberto256 said:

 

Did you expect that a thread titled: "CDC denies cruise sector's request to lift US sailing restrictions"

would be upbeat and optimistic about cruising?

 

It seems to me that if you simply want to read optimistic posts, you should skip over the obvious thread that don't appeal to you.

 

Problem solved.

 

 

 

Well, by listening to ALL sides, one is best able to make good decisions, however when one side is consistently speaking in a derogatory way about an entity, they aren't looking for a solution, they are just speaking with emotion.  One side is CDC and Federal Government good, Cruise Industry bad; my thought is, why the heck aren't all you people working together to solve this problem and why is it taking so long?

 

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14 minutes ago, richsea said:

Nope, just young Invincables! Ahh, I recall those days many moons ago.

A lot of the so-called Spring Breakers are not College Students.  

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