Florida Looking to Push Back Against CDC

[Hlitner]

Just saw a post that the Mayor of Miami says he had a productive phone call with Rochelle Walensky (Director of the CDC) and that the CDC will soon issue new or revised cruise guidelines that apparently will incorporate vaccines into the plan.   The Mayor seemed somewhat optimistic that this would lead to the resumption of cruises out of Florida....but we have heard this kind of talk before.   I do think the good news is that at least Dr. Walensky is now aware that her agency is the hold up to cruising and might have her staff working on some kind of path forward.

 

Hank

[idiebabe]

1 minute ago, Hlitner said:

Just saw a post that the Mayor of Miami says he had a productive phone call with Rochelle Walensky (Director of the CDC) and that the CDC will soon issue new or revised cruise guidelines that apparently will incorporate vaccines into the plan.   The Mayor seemed somewhat optimistic that this would lead to the resumption of cruises out of Florida....but we have heard this kind of talk before.   I do think the good news is that at least Dr. Walensky is now aware that her agency is the hold up to cruising and might have her staff working on some kind of path forward.

 

Hank

That is good news and a step in the right direction!  It just seemed to be going nowhere with it being stuck "In Review".    A Vaccine Requirement (along with following other Guidelines) could be the game changer in getting Cruises up and going.  🤞

[ontheweb]

22 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

That is good news and a step in the right direction!  It just seemed to be going nowhere with it being stuck "In Review".    A Vaccine Requirement (along with following other Guidelines) could be the game changer in getting Cruises up and going.  🤞

But the governor of Florida is very dead set against any vaccine requirement.😒

[tinaincc]

On 3/31/2021 at 5:35 PM, kazu said:

 

All I will say here are that the younger are the ones now with the most cases and a number are getting hospitalized.  Many more than before.

Young?  19 - 49 - the people that weren’t supposed to be vulnerable.  

I confess I am more focused on Canadian numbers than U.S. 😉 I think that’s understandable.  I can say in our province the bulk of the cases are those under 50 and a lot under 30 now.

 

And here, most seniors have still not been vaccinated.  I’m guessing the younger aren’t as cautious as we are?

I do hope that Canadian vaccinations ramp up soon. I spend a lot of time with this data and it is clear:

hospitalizations for those under 50 are half of those (at most) than those over 50.

In the US of the 550,000 deaths 22k were under 50 the rest are above 50. 
 

I just wish we could have modified our approach to this using a risk based model vs a one size fits all approach.

 

 

[idiebabe]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

But the governor of Florida is very dead set against any vaccine requirement.😒

I'm not sure what this has to do with the CDC having a Requirement for Ships to have their Crew and Passengers Vaccinated in order to Sail? There will be people in all the States (and elsewhere) who won't get the Vaccine.  Their choice but if the Requirement is to be Vaccinated in order to Cruise, the Unvaccinated won't be Sailing!

 

Things are looking up for Travel so, hopefully, the CDC will make a move for Cruising to resume! 

 

Fully vaccinated people may travel, CDC says (msn.com)

 

Domestic Travel During COVID-19 | CDC

 

   

Edited April 2, 2021 by idiebabe

[T8NCruise]

On 3/31/2021 at 3:35 PM, kazu said:

 

All I will say here are that the younger are the ones now with the most cases and a number are getting hospitalized.  Many more than before.

Young?  19 - 49 - the people that weren’t supposed to be vulnerable.  

I confess I am more focused on Canadian numbers than U.S. 😉 I think that’s understandable.  I can say in our province the bulk of the cases are those under 50 and a lot under 30 now.

 

And here, most seniors have still not been vaccinated.  I’m guessing the younger aren’t as cautious as we are?

Fortunately, here in BC vaccinating ramped up so fast that we are at 65+ now and with more vaccine coming soon we can hopefully get to the young 'uns!

[Etta1213]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

But the governor of Florida is very dead set against any vaccine requirement.😒

The governor of FL has no authority regarding what the cruise line requires. He's against businesses in FL such as restaurants, movie theaters, etc etc requiring that a customer has to show proof of vaccination in order to be allowed in. For one thing, it would violate hippa laws. Scary slippery slope. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Etta1213

[Roz]

46 minutes ago, Etta1213 said:

For one thing, it would violate hippa laws. 

 

If that's the case, HIPPA has gone too far.  Is it a violation of HIPPA for schools to require vaccinations?

[cruisemom42]

48 minutes ago, Etta1213 said:

The governor of FL has no authority regarding what the cruise line requires. He's against businesses in FL such as restaurants, movie theaters, etc etc requiring that a customer has to show proof of vaccination in order to be allowed in. For one thing, it would violate hippa laws. Scary slippery slope. 

 

Businesses requiring customers to show proof of vaccination would NOT violate the HIPAA act. That act has to do with, e.g.,  doctors, hospitals and health insurers not being permitted to share your personal medical information with third parties, such as whether you have been vaccinated.

 

However what's under discussion is you sharing your OWN medical information, e.g., individuals are given a record of their own immunization – either digitally or on paper – and then can be asked to share it for entrance to certain places.

[Heartgrove]

1 hour ago, Etta1213 said:

The governor of FL has no authority regarding what the cruise line requires. He's against businesses in FL such as restaurants, movie theaters, etc etc requiring that a customer has to show proof of vaccination in order to be allowed in. For one thing, it would violate hippa laws. Scary slippery slope. 

 

Cruise ships would be similar to embassies of a foreign country. Once you embark on a cruise ship, you have now left that port country and entered the country that the cruise ship is flagged. This would be much like visiting Canada and Mexico for US citizens. Only NCL's MS Pride of America is flagged in the USA so is not out of the country for US citizens.

 

Requiring vaccination proof would not violate HIPAA, but if the cruise line shared your medical information elsewhere it would possible be a violation. The reason being that the cruise ship would/could only follow the country's, where it is flagged, HIPAA or similar laws - if they exist.

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Heartgrove

[kazu]

16 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

Requiring vaccination proof would not violate HIPAA, but if the cruise line shared your medical information elsewhere it would possible be a violation. The reason being that the cruise ship would/could only follow the country's, where it is flagged, HIPAA or similar laws - if they exist.

 

 

That’s interesting as I am guessing just like your passport to enter countries, the cruise ships may well have to provide some proof all on board are vaccinated.

Not sure how it will be done, of course but just like their word isn’t taken on passports and a list of passengers has to be reviewed and some checked, I would guess it would be the same with proof of vaccine?  It’s a guessing game at this point.

We may well find ourselves signing something or being advised pre-cruise that we are granting authorization to share this in the future.  Just a supposition, of course.

[Mary229]

CDC says vaccinated people can travel 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/02/cdc-fully-vaccinated-may-travel/

 

 

[cruisemom42]

4 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

CDC says vaccinated people can travel 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/02/cdc-fully-vaccinated-may-travel/

 

 

 

Can, but shouldn't.

 

"While fully vaccinated people are at lower risk of infection, the officials said, travel is still not recommended due to the rising number of cases in the United States and globally."

[Mary229]

5 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Can, but shouldn't.

 

"While fully vaccinated people are at lower risk of infection, the officials said, travel is still not recommended due to the rising number of cases in the United States and globally."

Yes, but it is a change in direction. It gives choice

[Heartgrove]

18 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

CDC says vaccinated people can travel 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/04/02/cdc-fully-vaccinated-may-travel/

 

 

 

 "While fully vaccinated people are at lower risk of infection, the officials said, travel is still not recommended due to the rising number of cases in the United States and globally."

 

If other countries remain shutdown, where are we racing to go?

 

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Heartgrove

[ontheweb]

11 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Can, but shouldn't.

 

"While fully vaccinated people are at lower risk of infection, the officials said, travel is still not recommended due to the rising number of cases in the United States and globally."

Yes, but people read just the part they want to read.

[ontheweb]

28 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

That’s interesting as I am guessing just like your passport to enter countries, the cruise ships may well have to provide some proof all on board are vaccinated.

Not sure how it will be done, of course but just like their word isn’t taken on passports and a list of passengers has to be reviewed and some checked, I would guess it would be the same with proof of vaccine?  It’s a guessing game at this point.

We may well find ourselves signing something or being advised pre-cruise that we are granting authorization to share this in the future.  Just a supposition, of course.

Good analogy, but I'm not sure anything would have to be signed as there is nothing you have to sign without which a cruise ship could not share your passport information with a country's immigration authorities.

[cruisemom42]

Just now, Mary229 said:

Yes, but it is a change in direction. It gives choice

 

Given what I read on here daily, I am pessimistic about whether people understand the difference in degree though.

 

CDC advisories still say travelers should avoid all travel to a number of destinations (Level 4) that cruise ships would be sailing to within the next couple of months and even more would fall into that group if you include Level 3 (avoid all non-essential travel).

 

Some Level 4 countries: Antigua, Greece, Aruba, Haiti, Puerto Rico, Israel, St. Lucia, St. Martin, Italy, Jamaica, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Turks & Caicos, Martinique, Curacao, Mexico, etc.

 

And the Bahamas, where one ship is supposed to be based is a Level 3...

 

 

[ArizonatoFlorida]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

But the governor of Florida is very dead set against any vaccine requirement.😒

The governor of Florida just issued an executive order stating no business can require a vaccine passport in order to enter.  But he order also states.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, Ron DeSantis, as Governor of Florida, by virtue of the authority vested in me by Article IV, Section 1(a) of the Florida Constitution and by the Florida Emergency Management Act, as amended, and all other applicable laws, promulgate the following Executive Order:

No Florida government entity, or its subdivisions, agents, or assigns, shall be permitted to issue vaccine passports, vaccine passes, or other standardized documentation for the purpose of certifying an individual’s COVID-19 vaccination status to a third party, or otherwise publish or share any individual’s COVID-19 vaccination record or similar health information."

So if Floridians want to travel to a state or country that does require a vaccine passport or proof of vaccine, what could we do?

 

[Cruise NH]

If I were a resident of Florida I would be worried how far DeSantis wants to take this.  If, for example, cruise lines require proof of vaccination from the CDC for example, states would have to share their data with the CDC (if they haven't already).  If DeSantis doesn't want to cooperate with that request (because he's so opposed to vaccine passports) he could be hurting citizens of Florida.

 

Our vaccine data is already with the CDC because our state used the VAMS CDC scheduling system.  I think 9 or 10 other states did the same, the rest had their own system I guess.

[HappyInVan]

28 minutes ago, ArizonatoFlorida said:

No Florida government entity, or its subdivisions, agents, or assigns, shall be permitted to issue vaccine passports, vaccine passes, or other standardized documentation for the purpose of certifying an individual’s COVID-19 vaccination status to a third party, or otherwise publish or share any individual’s COVID-19 vaccination record or similar health information."

So if Floridians want to travel to a state or country that does require a vaccine passport or proof of vaccine, what could we do?

 

 

Looks pretty definite. FL will not share their vax database with the Feds. Will not participate in a digital passport program. Will not permit cruise companies to check vax status, unless the CDC (senior government) mandates vax for cruise ships.

 

To be part of a digital passport program, Floridians will have to manually enroll. Not sure if that would be even possible? 

 

Those vax in FL (including the snowbirds) will have to show their paper documents at checkpoints. We know how easy it is to counterfeit those. So, would the officials in Italy, Japan, Switzerland or Central America recognize the paper documents from 50 individual states?

 

"Amigo, what is thissss???" 

 

What do you think?

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by HappyInVan

[Heartgrove]

This is what I thought might happen if DeSantis starts flexing his perceived authority. Remember cruise ships are foreign-flagged. More ships moving out of Florida to other ports with less contentious governors. By this I mean, are the cruise companies going to require vaccinations to limit their liability?.

[CruiserBruce]

The executive order says no "Florida governmental agency" can give info related to a person's vaccine status. Doesn't stop a cruise line from requiring proof of vaccine,  or another state or a foreign country requiring proof of a Florida resident to travel elsewhere. 

 

DeSantis can try to leverage the cruise lines by making doing business hard, but I suspect that would backfire on him.

[cruisemom42]

37 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

The executive order says no "Florida governmental agency" can give info related to a person's vaccine status. Doesn't stop a cruise line from requiring proof of vaccine,  or another state or a foreign country requiring proof of a Florida resident to travel elsewhere. 

 

Based on the precise wording given above, though, it sounds as if Florida agencies would not be allowed to issue a vaccine passport or pass even to an individual requesting it if the purpose is to certify their status to a third party (e.g., a cruise line).

 

So...if the cruise lines mandate a specific proof of vaccination, something more tamper-proof than a card let's say, how would a Florida resident who wants to cruise obtain one?

[Vict0riann]

Do you think a cruise line could go back to those forms you had to sign saying you were well, had no gastrointestinal ailment, etc., and for the passenger just to sign that he/she had been vaccinated?  I'm sure there were people who lied on those forms, but at least it would be something the cruise line could use to cover their ***** if there was an outbreak.