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The elephant in the room..


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The interesting (but not surprising) thing about this thread is that there are so many people seemingly refusing to acknowledge that cruises right now aren’t the death traps they are portrayed to be..  There’s a whole lot of “yeah but” and that’s about it..

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Ellaleah said:

I was responding to Boatseller, who said that it was a right to be free to travel.  He’s making a lot of noise about his rights and freedom being infringed upon if he wants a vax.  I believe that he has stated he will not be getting one.  I am hoping for fully vaccinated cruises for all so that we can feel safe.  Stop fighting the science and get a shot.  Vaccines for most all is the only way to stop the virus from mutating into new variants.  We must leave no hosts for the virus!

 

Therein lies the beauty....whatever the rules end up looking like for travel/cruising/dining/etc, you'll get to decide if you 'feel safe', and then can act accordingly....nobody should declare it's safe for you, and you won't declare it's safe for anybody else (outside of family members that you may have control over).

Edited by bucfan2
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I think the elephant in the room will always be asymptomatic. Yes, I want cruises to resume this year as we're booked Oct. 17. However, I want us all to be safe. I'd have to guess that previous superspreader events occurred when many people were exposed to an asymptomatic person. I think the CDC will be more willing to move forward as a much higher percentage of the population becomes vaccinated. 15% of Ohioans have been dosed and that percentage will be much higher pretty soon. These next couple of months will have a huge impact on our ability to safely move forward.

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1 hour ago, bucfan2 said:

 

Therein lies the beauty....whatever the rules end up looking like for travel/cruising/dining/etc, you'll get to decide if you 'feel safe', and then can act accordingly....nobody should declare it's safe for you, and you won't declare it's safe for anybody else (outside of family members that you may have control over).

How about the science?  It sounds like you would prefer to throw darts on a board to determine if it is safe.  I will stick with the science and scientists instead of your ridiculous post!

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56 minutes ago, Ellaleah said:

How about the science?  It sounds like you would prefer to throw darts on a board to determine if it is safe.  I will stick with the science and scientists instead of your ridiculous post!

Isn’t hard evidence relevant to you?  We have very smart people with good intentions stating that cruises will be floating covid death balls, then we have active cruises going on right now demonstrating this isn’t true.

 

How do you personally reconcile these opposing things?

 

By the way - This is the very definition of cognitive dissonance..  

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48 minutes ago, Ellaleah said:

How about the science?  It sounds like you would prefer to throw darts on a board to determine if it is safe.  I will stick with the science and scientists instead of your ridiculous post!

How about the rules. I didnt find the post ridiculous at all. He said whatever the rules wind up being to cruise or travel, then it's up to each individual to decide if they feel safe and want to travel with those rules.

 

In the end it's going to be their ship, their rules. It actually doesnt matter what your interpretation of science is or isnt. Rcl is having a lot of these conversations with vaccines required for cruises specifically for this summer. There was a post on rcl site that's been removed, about boarding by appointment not by loyalty. Cant just show up when you feel like it. Diamond lounge on capacity basis. You can only be in coastal kitchen with a reservation, not go in and sit and read. You can say follow the science, but in the end it is about the rules to board and cruise. Rcl is unveiling rules and backtracking and some that got released late friday and caused a big stir.

 

Carnival is still mum about when they will resume or what rules. Not good for their stock price. If carnival says rules you dont like, then dont cruise. It's about protocols and new rules. 

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19 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

No tests result in no cases. I think that approach has been tried before.

 

We have already read some threatening to forge vaccination documents which really is an issue in some countries. I can see that as an issue on vaccinated cruises.

 

Totally unvaccinated cruises, without numerous safeguards, were death traps.

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/06/covid-19-cruise-ship-studies-reflect-unique-disease-traits

 

As far as a "death trap", it was about 80 total people from all cruises, all over the world who died from COVID from a cruise. With the majority coming from two Princess cruises with much older crowds, long itineraries, no immunity, and little procedure or understanding of the virus. 80 from hundreds of thousands of passengers and crew with little to no focus on it.

 

And for one more, anecdotal, example, I was on one of the last cruises before they were paused. Either there was no mention of it, or there was not one case. No quarantine. Nothing. I wish I was informed of the death trap so I would have been educated to be scared for my life.

 

Combined with all we know now, immunities in place, etc, it's only fear mongering at this point to consider it a death trap.

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Those who utter the meaningless it's about the science ... lol just wait until carnival actually comes up with their protocols..what do you mean capacity controlled lounge or eating area. No gifts delivered to my cabin?? I'm entitled, I earned those free gifts. Priority boarding is temporarily suspended? 

 

Rcl has the key which gives you priority and boarding lunch, it's not for sale on these early cruises, so fttf might not be sold either. So far here it's about vaccines, masks and if you can explore ports on your own ... wait ...there will be more. Lololol. ..just keep saying it's all about the science when they dont deliver that logo gift or you cant get free laundry hahahahaha.

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16 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Those who utter the meaningless it's about the science ... lol just wait until carnival actually comes up with their protocols..what do you mean capacity controlled lounge or eating area. No gifts delivered to my cabin?? I'm entitled, I earned those free gifts. Priority boarding is temporarily suspended? 

 

What do you mean? Decades of study from world-renowned institutes have firmly concluded that this virus spreads through free lanyards. Since I have used the word science, it is indisputable.

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On 3/27/2021 at 4:02 PM, ObstructedView2 said:

 

Oh my.....!!!  

As of March 22, (over the last seven days), Florida has had the most Covid-19 cases IN THE COUNTRY, according to data from the (CDC), the 12th highest per capita case-rate, the fourth highest number of deaths, and the 17th highest death rate.

 

 

 

😷

Florida does not have the 17th  highest death rate, it is 27th and has been for a long time, that is deaths per million population and is below the national average. 

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50 minutes ago, coscab said:

Florida does not have the 17th  highest death rate, it is 27th and has been for a long time, that is deaths per million population and is below the national average. 

Not what Florida has doe since the beginning of time, but what has Florida done lately? 7 day average positivity - in good company with Texas.

map-testing.jpg?noicon

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I have a legit question.  If you are vaccinated, then why are you afraid of people who aren't?  Also. I have read that since the vaccine does not have any of the virus living or dead, it won't protect you from getting it, but you'll get a much milder case. Before you accused me of being an "antivaxxer", I'm not. I'm just very careful about what I put in my body. 

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24 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

I have a legit question.  If you are vaccinated, then why are you afraid of people who aren't?  Also. I have read that since the vaccine does not have any of the virus living or dead, it won't protect you from getting it, but you'll get a much milder case. Before you accused me of being an "antivaxxer", I'm not. I'm just very careful about what I put in my body. 

Um - control.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

I have a legit question.  If you are vaccinated, then why are you afraid of people who aren't?  

I’ll answer that one. I’m vaccinated, but I’m not afraid of people who aren’t. I humbly believe that the whole concept of “being afraid” during these times of Covid is something that was perpetuated by some leaders in order to advance their personal (and political) agenda. But I digress. 
 

There’s a difference between being afraid, and being cautious and responsible. As mentioned before, I’m vaccinated, but at the same time I know that we’re still learning about this virus. And while we are in this learning process, I think that it’s wise to be cautious. 
 

As we attempt to restart cruising in the US, I think that being cautious is the intelligent thing to do. Maybe even a bit more cautious than necessary in order to increase the chances further of a successful restart. Over time, and as we gather more data, some protocols and restrictions will undoubtedly be tweaked. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this approach. There’s little to be lost by it, but a lot to be gained by it. 
 

On a personal basis concerning the vaccine: As mentioned above, I finally got vaccinated (with zero side effects) a few weeks ago, and so did my elderly parents in their 80’s (also with zero side effects). After a year and a half, it was absolutely amazing to hug them again last week. That moment was worth any possible side effects or any concerns or second thoughts I may have had about the vaccine . 
 

 

Edited by Tapi
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18 minutes ago, Tapi said:

I’ll answer that one. I’m vaccinated, but I’m not afraid of people who aren’t. I humbly believe that the whole concept of “being afraid” during these times of Covid is something that was perpetuated by some leaders in order to advance their personal (and political) agenda. But I digress. 
 

There’s a difference between being afraid, and being cautious and responsible. As mentioned before, I’m vaccinated, but at the same time I know that we’re still learning about this virus. And while we are in this learning process, I think that it’s wise to be cautious. 
 

As we attempt to restart cruising in the US, I think that being cautious is the intelligent thing to do. Maybe even a bit more cautious than necessary in order to increase the chances further of a successful restart. Over time, and as we gather more data, some protocols and restrictions will undoubtedly be tweaked. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this approach. There’s little to be lost by it, but a lot to be gained by it. 
 

On a personal basis concerning the vaccine: As mentioned above, I finally got vaccinated (with zero side effects) a few weeks ago, and so did my elderly parents in their 80’s (also with zero side effects). After a year and a half, it was absolutely amazing to hug them again last week. That moment was worth any possible side effects or any concerns or second thoughts I may have had about the vaccine . 
 

 

We never restricted ourselves from our family including our grandchildren.  Our adult son who lives with us had it last summer.  Neither myself or husband got it.  We did quarantine ourselves for 2 weeks as not to spread it to others.  In November I had to take my sister to the hospital so she could have surgery.  I was there for 13 hours. I came down with it 3 days later. I am sure I got it at the hospital.  All I'm trying to say is it is not a death sentence.  My husband and I are considered to be in the high risk group because of our age, over 65.  We're probably will not be getting the vaccine.  We are going to rely on our body's natural antibodies.  I understand that people are lining up for the vaccine and good for them.   I'm just weary of all the self righteous people out there condemning people with opposing opinions. 

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8 hours ago, firefly333 said:

How about the rules. I didnt find the post ridiculous at all. He said whatever the rules wind up being to cruise or travel, then it's up to each individual to decide if they feel safe and want to travel with those rules.

 

In the end it's going to be their ship, their rules. It actually doesnt matter what your interpretation of science is or isnt. Rcl is having a lot of these conversations with vaccines required for cruises specifically for this summer. There was a post on rcl site that's been removed, about boarding by appointment not by loyalty. Cant just show up when you feel like it. Diamond lounge on capacity basis. You can only be in coastal kitchen with a reservation, not go in and sit and read. You can say follow the science, but in the end it is about the rules to board and cruise. Rcl is unveiling rules and backtracking and some that got released late friday and caused a big stir.

 

Carnival is still mum about when they will resume or what rules. Not good for their stock price. If carnival says rules you dont like, then dont cruise. It's about protocols and new rules. 

 

Thanks for putting that more eloquently than I did...wow, felt like I'd been speared making a simple statement.  Your response probably saved me for a few days off from cc, as I was about to respond in a much different way.

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19 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

All I'm trying to say is it is not a death sentence. 

Humbly and respectfully, I agree that it’s not a death sentence. That is, until death comes knocking on your door, or on the door of a loved one or friend. 


Due to the nature of my job, I was pretty much required to continue working, going out to eat, traveling (even internationally) and foregoing many of the same protocols that most people were required and encouraged to follow during the pandemic. Because of my experience, I’m respectful of people who have legitimate and well thought out reasons for not following prescribed protocols either, or for deciding not to get vaccinated. Everybody knows what their personal situation is,  and what the reasoning for their actions is. 

With that said, I do have less understanding for people whose reasoning is based on nothing more than what their political affiliation has dictated. I do believe that we would’ve been farther along (and maybe even back to cruising by now) if we had not allowed politics to be injected into the way that we responded to this pandemic. 

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21 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

This info is pretty worthless.  We (and many people we know) didn't get the vaccine in the county where we we live.  We got it in a neighboring county because it was easier to make an appointment there.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Tapi said:

Humbly and respectfully, I agree that it’s not a death sentence. That is, until death comes knocking on your door, or on the door of a loved one or friend. 

 

Absolutely. I am not denying this can be a very deadly virus.  But there is an over a 98% survival rate.


With that said, I do have less understanding for people whose reasoning is based on nothing more than what their political affiliation has dictated. I do believe that we would’ve been farther along (and maybe even back to cruising by now) if we had not allowed politics to be injected into the way that we responded to this pandemic.

I agree 100%

Edited by Butterbean1000
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1 minute ago, ledges1 said:

Bitterness toward Florida seems to be strong by some. Do you plan to boycott Florida cruise ports when cruising returns?

Thank you for asking this; I have wondered the same.

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