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Show your support for the return of cruising in US


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Posted (edited)
On 3/27/2021 at 9:37 PM, LGW59 said:

I don't think anybody missed it.  I also do not think anybody missed your response to a poll asking for response to contact your congressperson or senator, which you responded to.  You then said, gee I did not know OP changed it after I responded, he did not, you just back tracked.  You made a comment earlier here saying to someone, I paraphrase but something to the effect of "Hmmm waffling now are you, eh!"  Can't eat from both sides of the plate...   

😄 What if you like what's on 'both sides of the plate' (meaning the top NOT both top and bottom - impossible to do 😉)....I sometimes do and it's not just waffles...LOL.  Seriously...one can miss details first time around and consequently change their opinion....can't one?  I'm on the other side of the fence (border) and couldn't/wouldn't contact my rep in any case for resumption of cruising in our home ports because we, the majority, just want to.  There's much to consider here and putting pressure on our govt. reps. isn't the best way to ensure we cruise safely...IMHO.

Edited by Oceangoer2
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Are you suggesting that Canadians, Australians, Germans, etc (all of whom I see are posting) have no business having an opinion on this board and that perhaps those in the UK should stick to their designated website?  We all cruise this line and as far as most of us see it, we have every right to chime in when and if we feel like sharing.  But keep politics out of it....IMO.

Oh brother....  He did not say that...

 

A post that supports a return to cruising is political?  What about a fishing site that supports a return to fishing?  I just can't imagine people on this board being pro cruising and anxious to get back as most of us will be vaccinated shortly.

 

If you want to participate in this thread feel free to post links where the decision makers in your country can be contacted.

 

I fully expect that opinions on this board are relative to vaccination percentages.

Edited by NMTraveller
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

If you want to participate in this thread feel free to post links where the decision makers in your country can be contacted.

Again...are you personally telling me I shouldn't 'participate on this board unless I follow your dictums?  Do most of the US posters feel we Canadians should keep our comments to ourselves?  Indicating Cdn. political contacts should be provided to you IS a political statement.  And why would I do your investigating for you....some of your post doesn't make much sense.  (I could add...as usual).

Edited by Oceangoer2
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Again...are you personally telling me I shouldn't 'participate on this board unless I follow your dictums?  Do most of the US posters feel we Canadians should keep our comments to ourselves?  Indicating Cdn. political contacts should be provided to you IS a political statement.  And why would I do your investigating for you....some of your post doesn't make much sense.  (I could add...as usual).

I don't have any dictums.  No I was inviting you to participate.  The tear down your wall post was a joke.  Very Reaganesque though. 🙂

 

Anyways I have had two Canadian cruises cancelled in the last year or so.  I have two land trips to Canada this summer.  I will wait and see if the border is open.

 

Edited by NMTraveller
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5 hours ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Are you suggesting that Canadians, Australians, Germans, etc (all of whom I see are posting) have no business having an opinion on this board and that perhaps those in the UK should stick to their designated website?  We all cruise this line and as far as most of us see it, we have every right to chime in when and if we feel like sharing.  But keep politics out of it....IMO.

Not at all.  I was replying to a prior post [context is important] that suggested that asking US members of Cruise Critic to contact CLIA was exclusionary to our international members – with the implication that each and every thread on Cruise Critic should apply equally to members from every country.  We have many threads about the different T&C rules for UK customers vs. North Americans, or about how pricing in Canadian dollars is not as good a deal as the US offers.  I would be happy to see a similar thread asking Canadian members to contact Canada to ask them to open up cruising.  Or UK members to contact their government about opening up travel.

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16 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Not at all.  I was replying to a prior post [context is important] that suggested that asking US members of Cruise Critic to contact CLIA was exclusionary to our international members – with the implication that each and every thread on Cruise Critic should apply equally to members from every country.  We have many threads about the different T&C rules for UK customers vs. North Americans, or about how pricing in Canadian dollars is not as good a deal as the US offers.  I would be happy to see a similar thread asking Canadian members to contact Canada to ask them to open up cruising.  Or UK members to contact their government about opening up travel.

As I said in another post....I don't agree putting citizen pressure on govt officials (excluding medical reps) is the way to start cruising in a safe manner.  So wouldn't contact any Cdn. rep.  I do agree, however, that Cdn. pricing is really poor compared with US pricing.

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1 hour ago, NMTraveller said:

I don't have any dictums.  No I was inviting you to participate.  The tear down your wall post was a joke.  Very Reaganesque though. 🙂

 

This phrase is hardly a joke...no comparison with Canada/US and East/West Germany and all that it stood for.  Joking in French to cover the intention?

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56 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Joking in French to cover the intention?

Now you have me laughing.  Really?  Us Americans can't read French?

 

I will buy you an adult beverage on our next cruise.  Cheers.

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1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Not at all.  I was replying to a prior post [context is important] that suggested that asking US members of Cruise Critic to contact CLIA was exclusionary to our international members – with the implication that each and every thread on Cruise Critic should apply equally to members from every country.  We have many threads about the different T&C rules for UK customers vs. North Americans, or about how pricing in Canadian dollars is not as good a deal as the US offers.  I would be happy to see a similar thread asking Canadian members to contact Canada to ask them to open up cruising.  Or UK members to contact their government about opening up travel.

Canadians contacting our gov. to ask to open cruising does not make sense.. Too much covid and they have enough to do without being bothered by people who selfishly want international travel during a pandemic

 

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As a small d democrat, i.e. I like democracies, I think every citizen should have the right to lobby their government representatives about anything. So if folks want to write their congressmen and women or their Senators lobbying for the a restart of U.S. cruising, I say go for it. Now, I think writing Santa Claus would have a better chance of success, but what the heck, give it the old college try.

 

I think you would have a better chance of success if the cruise industry was not such a niche industry in the U.S. with very little economic impact compared to many other industries. If the cruise industry started up today, would it have any meaningful impact on the U.S. unemployment rate? No, the industry doesn't employ all that many of the U.S. labour force. If the cruise industry started up today, and the cruise companies began to generate profits again, would it have any meaningful impact on the U.S. Treasury? No, the industry doesn't pay very much in U.S. income tax in the best of times.  

 

As cruisers we have to face the fact that the cruise industry's importance to the U.S. economy is tiny. A cruise industry study by the CLIA places the industry's economic impact at about a quarter of one percent of the U.S. GDP.  That would make the industry about the size of New Zealand's  economy compared to the Global economy. Kiwi is a great place but just not very important. 

 

And speaking of New Zealand, I'm off to write a letter to Prime Minister Ardern to she if she will waive Kiwi' no visitors rule and let me drop in next month? Wish me luck!

 

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5 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

As a small d democrat, i.e. I like democracies, I think every citizen should have the right to lobby their government representatives about anything. So if folks want to write their congressmen and women or their Senators lobbying for the a restart of U.S. cruising, I say go for it. Now, I think writing Santa Claus would have a better chance of success, but what the heck, give it the old college try.

 

I think you would have a better chance of success if the cruise industry was not such a niche industry in the U.S. with very little economic impact compared to many other industries. If the cruise industry started up today, would it have any meaningful impact on the U.S. unemployment rate? No, the industry doesn't employ all that many of the U.S. labour force. If the cruise industry started up today, and the cruise companies began to generate profits again, would it have any meaningful impact on the U.S. Treasury? No, the industry doesn't pay very much in U.S. income tax in the best of times.  

 

As cruisers we have to face the fact that the cruise industry's importance to  U.S. economy is tiny. A cruise industry study by the CLIA places the industry's economic impact at about a quarter of one percent of the U.S. GDP.  That would make the industry about the size of New Zealand's  economy compared to the Global economy. Kiwi is a great place but just not very important. 

 

Imo, the ten US states that benefit from the Cruise and associated Hospitality industry just might disagree with you.

 

https://cruising.org/en/news-and-research/press-room/2020/november/cruise-industry-contribution-to-us-economy-grew-to-55-billion-in-2019

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

Imo, the ten US states that benefit from the Cruise and associated Hospitality industry just might disagree with you.

 

https://cruising.org/en/news-and-research/press-room/2020/november/cruise-industry-contribution-to-us-economy-grew-to-55-billion-in-2019

Might? LOL 🤣

They'd 100% disagree with me! 

 

But the good Senator who represents Sheboygan Wisconsin would 200% agree with me because the cruise industry's economic impact in the dairy state is beyond tiny, it's darn right microscopic.

 

Here is another comparison for the cruise industry in the U.S. It is as important to the U.S.  economy as curling is to North American sports. 🥌 🧹 Of course, curling is way more important in Wisconsin than it is in Florida but does anybody in D.C care about curling? Has the U.S. national curling champions ever been invited to the White House? So write all the letters you want but those writing efforts, to use a curling phrase, will just result in another blank end for the cruise industry. 

 

BTW the Men's world curling championships are stating in Calgary this week. 

Edited by DirtyDawg
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Now you have me laughing.  Really?  Us Americans can't read French?

 

I will buy you an adult beverage on our next cruise.  Cheers.

Never said you couldn't read it or speak it, but it seemed to me you googled it and threw it out there because some think French is unique to all Canadians.  There are bilingual provinces but a small part of our language use.  WE Canadians may have a problem with whatever your secondary dialect is in your area...perhaps Spanish? so no criticism in either direction.  I'll take a nice Chablis....🍷...virtual cheers!

Edited by Oceangoer2
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We have gone over a year since cruising stopped do to what many consider non-US cruise lines callous safety and security treatment and behavior towards customers.  I have been "cruising" since what I remember as 1949 and transiting the Atlantic from NYC to Rotterdam.  Even before that, crossing the eastern Pacific Hawaii (where I was born) to San Francisco.  Thirty years in the US Navy, many at sea on "big grey boats" to a include a circumnavigation of the world on USS Enterprise.  The sea is in my blood, so to speak.  However, we have lived the past 14 months without "cruising" and we disembarked Reflection on 2 March just as the pandemic was starting.  We were very fortunate to not have caught COVID-19.  I can relish life without "cruising."

 

My example is the the 737Max grounding by the US and other national aviation organizations do to safety reasons.  Cruising was stopped by the US and other countries do to safety and health reasons.  The countries "grounding" cruising are going through critical review processes to insure its safe in the future for their citizens to cruise and safe for the cruise lines to resume operations.  Once that determination has been achieved, cruising will return although likely a bit different than the mass market experience pre-pandemic.

 

We have to let the the government, the many different governments involved, health and safety professionals do their jobs to insure the safety of their citizens.  The process we are in right now.  It would benefit all of us if people followed proper protocols and used PPE instead of partying during what becomes super spreader events.  It would be embarrassing to me to "lobby" my elected representatives to bypass health and safety protocols established to safely cruise for my own personal desires at the cost of lives of others.  

 

As I learned during my 30 years in the Navy, safety comes first.  We need to let the experts do their jobs and refrain from insinuating that they are only interested in raining on our cruising parade.

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13 minutes ago, Globehoppers said:

We have gone over a year since cruising stopped do to what many consider non-US cruise lines callous safety and security treatment and behavior towards customers.  I have been "cruising" since what I remember as 1949 and transiting the Atlantic from NYC to Rotterdam.  Even before that, crossing the eastern Pacific Hawaii (where I was born) to San Francisco.  Thirty years in the US Navy, many at sea on "big grey boats" to a include a circumnavigation of the world on USS Enterprise.  The sea is in my blood, so to speak.  However, we have lived the past 14 months without "cruising" and we disembarked Reflection on 2 March just as the pandemic was starting.  We were very fortunate to not have caught COVID-19.  I can relish life without "cruising."

 

My example is the the 737Max grounding by the US and other national aviation organizations do to safety reasons.  Cruising was stopped by the US and other countries do to safety and health reasons.  The countries "grounding" cruising are going through critical review processes to insure its safe in the future for their citizens to cruise and safe for the cruise lines to resume operations.  Once that determination has been achieved, cruising will return although likely a bit different than the mass market experience pre-pandemic.

 

We have to let the the government, the many different governments involved, health and safety professionals do their jobs to insure the safety of their citizens.  The process we are in right now.  It would benefit all of us if people followed proper protocols and used PPE instead of partying during what becomes super spreader events.  It would be embarrassing to me to "lobby" my elected representatives to bypass health and safety protocols established to safely cruise for my own personal desires at the cost of lives of others.  

 

As I learned during my 30 years in the Navy, safety comes first.  We need to let the experts do their jobs and refrain from insinuating that they are only interested in raining on our cruising parade.

Excellent post.

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1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

Imo, the ten US states that benefit from the Cruise and associated Hospitality industry just might disagree with you.

 

https://cruising.org/en/news-and-research/press-room/2020/november/cruise-industry-contribution-to-us-economy-grew-to-55-billion-in-2019

Using the numbers you quoted   55 billion/ US GDP 21.43 trillion = .26%

 

Seems to me that his statement of the cruises industries contribution to the US economy being a quarter of 1 percent is pretty accurate.

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8 minutes ago, nocl said:

Using the numbers you quoted   55 billion/ US GDP 21.43 trillion = .26%

 

Seems to me that his statement of the cruises industries contribution to the US economy being a quarter of 1 percent is pretty accurate.

What percentage of Florida's GDP is cruising?  Since Florida is a swing state they have some pull.

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10 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

What percentage of Florida's GDP is cruising?  Since Florida is a swing state they have some pull.

Using numbers from a report on florida ports cruise lines contributed a little less than 8 billion to florida's GDP of about 951 billion so about 8/10's of 1 percent.

 

Just as a comparison the total amount spent in the state by tourists each year is about 89 billion (2017 report).  So cruising accounts for less than 9% of tourist spending in Florida.

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Just now, nocl said:

Using numbers from a report on florida ports cruise lines contributed a little less than 8 billion to florida's GDP of about 951 billion so about 8/10's of 1 percent.

 

Just as a comparison the total amount spent in the state by tourists each year is about 89 billion (2017 report).  So cruising accounts for less than 9% of tourist spending in Florida.

Eight percent is still a large amount.  

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6 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Eight percent is still a large amount.  

not 8 percent  of the Florida economy it  is .8%

 

the 9% is compared to overall tourism spend.  

 

When it comes to taxes paid  the 89 billion total tourism spend spent in the state  results in 13.3 billion in Federal taxes and 11.4 billion in state and local taxes.  Taxes paid by the cruise industry is an extremely small fraction.

 

To put it simply Disney World has more of an impact on the Florida economy than the entire cruise industry with it generating 18.2 billion in economic impact.

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15 hours ago, nocl said:

not 8 percent  of the Florida economy it  is .8%

 

the 9% is compared to overall tourism spend.  

 

When it comes to taxes paid  the 89 billion total tourism spend spent in the state  results in 13.3 billion in Federal taxes and 11.4 billion in state and local taxes.  Taxes paid by the cruise industry is an extremely small fraction.

 

To put it simply Disney World has more of an impact on the Florida economy than the entire cruise industry with it generating 18.2 billion in economic impact.

 

The actual impact may be more than 9%.   My family has visited Disney World and other theme parks at Florida 2 times in the last 6 years.   Both times were because we were there for a cruise and then stay an extra week for the parks.   If we were not there for the cruises, we were not have gone to there just for parks as we live in SoCal.   We already have most of the parks here locally.

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18 hours ago, Globehoppers said:

We have gone over a year since cruising stopped do to what many consider non-US cruise lines callous safety and security treatment and behavior towards customers.  I have been "cruising" since what I remember as 1949 and transiting the Atlantic from NYC to Rotterdam.  Even before that, crossing the eastern Pacific Hawaii (where I was born) to San Francisco.  Thirty years in the US Navy, many at sea on "big grey boats" to a include a circumnavigation of the world on USS Enterprise.  The sea is in my blood, so to speak.  However, we have lived the past 14 months without "cruising" and we disembarked Reflection on 2 March just as the pandemic was starting.  We were very fortunate to not have caught COVID-19.  I can relish life without "cruising."

 

My example is the the 737Max grounding by the US and other national aviation organizations do to safety reasons.  Cruising was stopped by the US and other countries do to safety and health reasons.  The countries "grounding" cruising are going through critical review processes to insure its safe in the future for their citizens to cruise and safe for the cruise lines to resume operations.  Once that determination has been achieved, cruising will return although likely a bit different than the mass market experience pre-pandemic.

 

We have to let the the government, the many different governments involved, health and safety professionals do their jobs to insure the safety of their citizens.  The process we are in right now.  It would benefit all of us if people followed proper protocols and used PPE instead of partying during what becomes super spreader events.  It would be embarrassing to me to "lobby" my elected representatives to bypass health and safety protocols established to safely cruise for my own personal desires at the cost of lives of others.  

 

As I learned during my 30 years in the Navy, safety comes first.  We need to let the experts do their jobs and refrain from insinuating that they are only interested in raining on our cruising parade.

Very well said, I couldn't agree with you more.

I  will cruise when the pandemic is declared to be over,  is allowed by the CDC and our government officials confirm it is safe to do so. 

Unfortunately I believe we are not there yet, as anxious as we all are to get back on the high seas.     

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