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2 minutes ago, TMLAalum said:

 

 If her comment reflected her tipping policies it did impact crew members. At the very least, it seemed to me she had no sense of empathy for the crew, who continued to do their jobs while having a far greater risk of contracting the virus than the confined passengers. 

Why are we here arguing semantics?

 

You don't know what the woman was thinking.  You don't know how she had been tipping.  

 

For making a remark that was tacky - and edited into the film without full context - people here have labelled her a "Karen" (a loathsome woke term) and recounted their emotional trauma from hearing it.  "Horrific".

 

I don't expect model behavior from someone who is confined on a ship, given little information, with a contagious virus on the ship.

 

That's not semantics.  It's manipulation by the film maker. 

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Posted (edited)

When all of this started I made the mistake of reading the 'long' Eclipse thread on here, I don't think I'll ever forget it.  There is no way I am watching that show on HBO.  Part of it might have been I got off that ship in Jan.

Edited by rmalbers
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16 hours ago, cantstopingcruising said:

What is a Karen?

My name is Karen.  I’m a daughter, wife, sister, mom, grandma and friend.  I worked as a nurse for over 40 years.  I’m a friend to many. I love animals and am a loving pet owner.  I volunteer. 
What another example of sad labeling society has chosen vs kindness once again.  
jmo

Edited by Cachecara
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I watched the documentary tonight.

So many of us who love cruising followed the news stories when it was all unfolding... but I found seeing the footage of the passengers and crew dealing with everything to be compelling... 

It was like I “knew” what was going to happen, but seeing it gave me perspective... and pause.

 

 

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On 4/2/2021 at 8:54 AM, TeeRick said:

Honestly it gave me a pause to think about ships like Millennium and others going out in June.  What if there is a new variant virus on board that evades vaccines and spreads?  And the ship needs to be quarantined to contain it?  Passengers and crew stuck again.  Maybe science fiction and irrational at this point but the documentary was enough to make me think twice about early cruises.

 

I admit I am biased, since I'm booked on the Millennium for July, but if you look at the "Healthy at Sea" protocols for the sailings, you can see that Celebrity has considered this scenario. The ships are sailing between 40%-60% full (only verandas+ are available), every adult needs to be vaccinated, and we will have to get tested before flying out and boarding. 

One of the main challenges that the Princess ship had was that none of the countries allowed them to dock and get their passengers quarantined outside the ship, making the situation even worse. X has a protocol that if you're infected during your trip, they will cover the cost for your quarantine, medical care and transport back to the US.... if you pair this with some of the latest CDC reports of mRNA vaccine efficacy, even against new variants of 90% it can help feel like it can be a fun escape again... just my $.02

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I thought that HBO did a good job of telling the story. I just remember last winter, watching the news every day in horror -- as one ship or another sailed around, looking for a port that would let them in! We actually had our bags packed, and were getting ready to fly to Miami for a charter cruise -- that was cancelled at the 'eleventh hour'! Watching what some of these poor passengers and crew endured, I couldn't help but feel that we had dodged a bullet!

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10 hours ago, gauchotex said:

 

I admit I am biased, since I'm booked on the Millennium for July, but if you look at the "Healthy at Sea" protocols for the sailings, you can see that Celebrity has considered this scenario. The ships are sailing between 40%-60% full (only verandas+ are available), every adult needs to be vaccinated, and we will have to get tested before flying out and boarding. 

One of the main challenges that the Princess ship had was that none of the countries allowed them to dock and get their passengers quarantined outside the ship, making the situation even worse. X has a protocol that if you're infected during your trip, they will cover the cost for your quarantine, medical care and transport back to the US.... if you pair this with some of the latest CDC reports of mRNA vaccine efficacy, even against new variants of 90% it can help feel like it can be a fun escape again... just my $.02

gauchotex,

I am sure you will have a healthy cruise with all of the knowledge that has been gained about the virus as well as having passengers and crew fully vaccinated.  My comments were irrational as I said in my post but I was just expressing my immediate feelings after watching the documentary. 

 

When I cruise again I just want well documented procedures in place and port agreements in place so I know exactly what happens if there is a certain threshold of COVID-positive people on board during the cruise - which could happen.  The Millennium cruise will have unvaccinated kids on board.  My fear is being stuck on the ship in my cabin.  I would be vaccinated but still be subject to the local authorities on what happens.  I would want to know in advance of the cruise.  If out of the US, according to the latest updates, the CDC would require port agreements and operational agreements in place.  Of course going around the CDC out of St Martin no such requirements exist (or they have not been communicated yet).

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I watched it last weekend, and was surprised that I didn't really learn anything new or revealing as I followed the situation pretty closely when it was happening.  We were on a Celebrity ship at the same time and I watched some of it unfold on the TV during our voyage.   The Wikipedia page has lots to statistics, and assuming it is correct, no one under age 60 died, and most were in 70's or 80's that died. That seems pretty consistent with the world wide spread of the disease.  It appears that no crew died.   As I followed the case and realized how it was quickly spread, I knew in my gut that there had to be asymptomatic spread, and even used that exact word in a conversation in March of last year.   This whole year has been awful.  But I hated that some how cruising was being blamed for the spread, there was just no stopping this virus, even lock downs of entire cities couldn't stop it.   Immunity through exposure or vaccine really does seem to be the only way to stop the spread.  And we have treatments now, which will diminish the number of deaths from those who do get it.

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On 4/2/2021 at 3:59 PM, billslowsky said:

"Horrific"?

 

Horrific is the behavior of the various governments, particularly Indonesia, as shown in the documentary refusing to get their citizens home.  A tacky remark by a frustrated passenger doesn't compare.

It's not a horror contest. However if you insist on comparing, I'd agree your example is more horrific than the tacky passenger. 

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8 hours ago, CroozFanatic said:

 

A racist term typically used by self-proclaimed anti-racists. Oh, the irony.

Nice.  Exactly.  ITA.  

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21 hours ago, TeeRick said:

gauchotex,

I am sure you will have a healthy cruise with all of the knowledge that has been gained about the virus as well as having passengers and crew fully vaccinated.  My comments were irrational as I said in my post but I was just expressing my immediate feelings after watching the documentary. 

 

When I cruise again I just want well documented procedures in place and port agreements in place so I know exactly what happens if there is a certain threshold of COVID-positive people on board during the cruise - which could happen.  The Millennium cruise will have unvaccinated kids on board.  My fear is being stuck on the ship in my cabin.  I would be vaccinated but still be subject to the local authorities on what happens.  I would want to know in advance of the cruise.  If out of the US, according to the latest updates, the CDC would require port agreements and operational agreements in place.  Of course going around the CDC out of St Martin no such requirements exist (or they have not been communicated yet).

I also am concerned that children, who are now considered the spreaders and the teens and kids might be on the ship and cause an outbreak.  While since I had the vaccination, I am not worried (much) about becoming seriously ill, who needs that to even worry about.  I would hate to spend a vacation in my cabin. I will wait until 2022.  We cancelled all of our future 2021 cruises.

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On 4/2/2021 at 4:38 PM, billslowsky said:

 

You don't know what the woman was thinking.  You don't know how she had been tipping.  

 

For making a remark that was tacky - and edited into the film without full context - people here have labelled her a "Karen" (a loathsome woke term) and recounted their emotional trauma from hearing it.  "Horrific".

 

I don't expect model behavior from someone who is confined on a ship, given little information, with a contagious virus on the ship.

 

That's not semantics.  It's manipulation by the film maker. 

I agree.  The "outrage" over that remark is, IMHO, way overblown.  I swear these days so many people are just on the hunt for reasons to criticize others and presume the worst about them.  And for the record, I have a number of crew members I have known for years whom I consider friends, and I always, always treat all the crew with respect and politeness and frequently tip above and beyond the suggested. 

 

It was a flippant comment made by someone in a very stressful situation, presented without context nor any chance to defend herself.  And let's be honest here people - while I absolutely love the crew and I think they work incredibly long hours in an incredibly difficult situation, I'll bet there are many times dealing with not-so-nice passengers that they would absolutely love to not have to pander to them as they need to in order to keep their jobs and get better tips or because they don't want to risk a complaint or a bad review.  That's just human nature and I don't blame them one bit.  

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15 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

I agree.  The "outrage" over that remark is, IMHO, way overblown.  I swear these days so many people are just on the hunt for reasons to criticize others and presume the worst about them.  And for the record, I have a number of crew members I have known for years whom I consider friends, and I always, always treat all the crew with respect and politeness and frequently tip above and beyond the suggested. 

 

It was a flippant comment made by someone in a very stressful situation, presented without context nor any chance to defend herself.  And let's be honest here people - while I absolutely love the crew and I think they work incredibly long hours in an incredibly difficult situation, I'll bet there are many times dealing with not-so-nice passengers that they would absolutely love to not have to pander to them as they need to in order to keep their jobs and get better tips or because they don't want to risk a complaint or a bad review.  That's just human nature and I don't blame them one bit.  

I'll just add that the comment was at the very beginning of the quarantine situation on the ship when neither passengers nor crew really knew about the virus or what would happen.  That is the context.  It seems like a much worse comment now of course based on our knowledge of what happened on that ship and on the pandemic to come.  There was absolutely no reason for the film makers to include her comment.  What was the point of it.

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I, too, watched this film- following closly the happenings a year ago through David Abels reports which he postet every day on youtube.

He tells a totaly different story about how Princess handled the situation. You can watch him still on youtube.

According to him he and his wife have another 5 Princess Cruises booked in 2022 and would choose no other cruise line.

I found this film not very well done, repeatative  and not all to well narrated.

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8 minutes ago, Germancruiser said:

I, too, watched this film- following closly the happenings a year ago through David Abels reports which he postet every day on youtube.

He tells a totaly different story about how Princess handled the situation. You can watch him still on youtube.

According to him he and his wife have another 5 Princess Cruises booked in 2022 and would choose no other cruise line.

I found this film not very well done, repeatative  and not all to well narrated.

I followed David on Facebook and he was very impressed with how Princess handled it.  I think they did the best they could with what they knew at the time.  And btw, the crew was offered vacation afterwards, but that was before things got difficult.

 

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I read too, that the crew got a vacation- but each has one´s own experience. I might be totaly different if you had to stay in an inside cabin with four persons for two weeks.

Nobody was responsible for that outbreak- nobody could see it coming and it was totaly new- so nobody could open a guide book and act accordingly.

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