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4-2-2021 CDC has issued new guidance


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5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This has no bearing on foreign ports, as the CDC has no jurisdiction there.

 

These requirements were known, in general terms, a year ago, and these instructions still only tell the what is required (the same as the NSO and the CSO), which is what the CDC is competent to promulgate.  The how is still up to the cruise lines, just as it has been since last April, and even when it was stated about 2 months ago what the "phase 2" would require, the cruise lines have not done any pre-planning or negotiating to even the level of a "letter of intent" with the various local and state agencies, which could be quickly completed when the levels of service are defined.  And, even here, the CDC is leaving the exact level of services required (max passengers, hospital space, quarantine space) to the parties in the agreements, the cruise lines and the state and local agencies. So, this shows that the cruise lines are even more negligent in not starting discussions with these agencies, since the CDC is generally opting out of the details.

 

How quickly the cruise lines get these agreements in place will show whether they have been working towards this for a year, or merely sitting on their hands.

 

Sounds like you work for the CDC 🙂

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2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

I question why the CDC can control the cruise industry and not any other sector of the economy - what sense does that make?  Our governor is questioning the legality of this control. 

Then your Governor merely needs to look at the mandate of the US Public Health Service, which the CDC is part of.  They are mandated to prevent the introduction of infectious disease into the US.  The CDC is controlling all seaborne commerce, not just the cruise industry, with restrictions on crew, and requirements for reporting, etc, for any ship wanting to enter US waters.  The CDC is not stopping the cruise industry from sailing, they are controlling access to US waters.  If the cruise lines wish to operate elsewhere, they are free to do so.

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Just now, LisaAtlCruiser said:

 

Sounds like you work for the CDC 🙂

No, but I've worked for the cruise lines, under CDC regulation, and also on other ships, which also must meet CDC requirements when in US waters.  I know how the CDC works, I know how government regulatory agencies work, and how "technical instructions" or even advisory panel reports are not "action plans" or "remediation plans", and that these detailed plans are what are always required. I've worked for over 30 years under the ISM (International Safety Management) code (which all ships and shipping companies must follow), where the governing organization (the flag state) gives general requirements for the code, and each company is required to establish their own, detailed, set of policies, procedures, and protocols to meet the requirements.  Each company comes up with their own documents, because each company is unique in its fleet, or its business practices.

 

I don't hold the cruise industry in contempt, but what I have seen since the pandemic started is a clear case of the executives hoping the pandemic will end, so that they can go back to business with no further regulation, and not having spent a dime on regulations.  All this, that everyone is saying is going to be difficult to achieve, was known a year ago, in the No Sail Order.

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1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

I don't recall the CDC shutting down international cargo operations.

 
How many cargo ships carry 5,000 passengers? They certainly have crew restrictions. 

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Just now, smokeybandit said:

I don't recall the CDC shutting down international cargo operations.

Because the number of possible infections are less with each ship, it is much easier to control, and ships are under tight CDC control.  Also, crew can be restricted in shore leave.  For those who feel that masks should not be required, know that every merchant mariner, on every ship, of every nation, that enters the US, must wear masks at all times, unless sleeping or eating.  So, in a 130*F engine room, and doing physical labor, we are still required to wear a mask.  Most ships will require a new crew member, or a crew member who goes ashore to go into limited quarantine, where they must take their temperature twice daily, and eat separately from the rest of the crew.  Many ports do not allow foreign crew ashore at all, even if the ship has never had a case of covid, and has been at sea (in quarantine) for 10 or more days.  Even US mariners are restricted in some ports, even though the USCG considers us to be essential workers.

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37 minutes ago, LisaAtlCruiser said:

 

Sounds like you work for the CDC 🙂

Truth hurts doesn't it. The Cruiseline's haven't done the neccessary changes to restart in the US. That is why we are where we are.

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10 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Truth hurts doesn't it. The Cruiseline's haven't done the neccessary changes to restart in the US. That is why we are where we are.

 

Cruise lines have gone above and beyond.  The CDC just has no interest in allowing them to restart.

 

What necessary change has the CDC asked cruise lines to do that the cruise lines had enough info to satisfy that they haven't done?

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30 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't hold the cruise industry in contempt, but what I have seen since the pandemic started is a clear case of the executives hoping the pandemic will end, so that they can go back to business with no further regulation, and not having spent a dime on regulations.  All this, that everyone is saying is going to be difficult to achieve, was known a year ago, in the No Sail Order.

 

Thank you for this.  It has always been my thought that the cruise lines were going to "wait out" the pandemic instead of putting in the time, effort and money to try to comply with very difficult regulations which carry high risks (possible outbreak on ships & the PR nightmare that would follow) and minimal payback with only a few ships sailing at restricted capacity.  The NSO gave the cruise lines perfect cover to lay low while the CDC took the heat for "trying to destroy the cruise industry".  Not sure why that would want to do that but apparently that is a very common opinion here on CC.

 

Now that we can play Monday morning quarterback, had the cruise line exec know the pandemic would last this long, perhaps things would have happened differently.  Now its just a wait and see how many people can be vaccinated by summer. IMO, it's no coincidence that the Caribbean sailing from the islands are only June - Aug, which should be about the time the majority of US residents should be fully protected.

 

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2 minutes ago, molly361 said:

Never mind

 

One of these days, I'm going to catch what you originally post before you change you mind. 😀😇

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4 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

Cruise lines have gone above and beyond.  The CDC just has no interest in allowing them to restart.

 

What necessary change has the CDC asked cruise lines to do that the cruise lines had enough info to satisfy that they haven't done?

3071CD50-5577-42E6-87F5-033C56339767.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

IMO, it's no coincidence that the Caribbean sailing from the islands are only June - Aug, which should be about the time the majority of US residents should be fully protected.

 

Lol did sept get cancelled?

 

Carnival has more or less said they will wait it out. That at this time they wouldnt seek to cruise from foreign ports. Sitting on their hands. Let rcl be the Guinea pigs

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6 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

3071CD50-5577-42E6-87F5-033C56339767.jpeg

That doesn't answer the question. Cruise lines satisfied Phase 1 a few months ago. Now the CDC is just getting around to Phase 2, which they decided to add a new phase.

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1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Then your Governor merely needs to look at the mandate of the US Public Health Service, which the CDC is part of.  They are mandated to prevent the introduction of infectious disease into the US.  The CDC is controlling all seaborne commerce, not just the cruise industry, with restrictions on crew, and requirements for reporting, etc, for any ship wanting to enter US waters.  The CDC is not stopping the cruise industry from sailing, they are controlling access to US waters.  If the cruise lines wish to operate elsewhere, they are free to do so.

 

Why is it that international flights are allowed?  The CDC should control airlines too then -- but they don't.  

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3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

That doesn't answer the question. Cruise lines satisfied Phase 1 a few months ago. Now the CDC is just getting around to Phase 2, which they decided to add a new phase.

No matter, the ships, the ports aren't ready, until they put money out to get what needs to be done we just sit tight and wait. In the meantime, find another type of vacation. No problem.

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13 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

3071CD50-5577-42E6-87F5-033C56339767.jpeg

This graphic doesn't mention vaccines. This looks like a graphic done based on the stuff from late last year.  

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6 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Lol did sept get cancelled?

 

Carnival has more or less said they will wait it out. That at this time they wouldnt seek to cruise from foreign ports. Sitting on their hands. Let rcl be the Guinea pigs

 

My bad, I didn't realize it was Jun - Sept for Adventure or Vision. But that gets them closer to the magical Nov 1st date. I can see Royal continue to add additional sailings to both ship from Bahama and Bermuda or simply shift them over to Florida when the time comes.

 

Hopefully the experience will give Royal a leg up over Carnival.

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1 minute ago, rockmom said:

This graphic doesn't mention vaccines. This looks like a graphic done based on the stuff from late last year.  


They recommended vaccines rather than mandating them. If the lines want to provide a plan without a vaccination element, they are free to do so. 

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The entire country is "solving" the COVID-19 infection by vaccinating people. That is the ultimate answer to this pandemic. Even the CDC is behind this.

 

A cruise ship of entire vaccinated people, both passengers and crew, is exactly what the CDC wants for the entire US.

 

It is beyond unbelievably irresponsible for the CDC not to recognize this as an opportunity to see this work now. And, for that matter, to consider this approach completely within the guidelines they are working toward for the entire country.

 

Even worse, is the CDC is doing almost nothing anywhere else within the country where they do have jurisdiction to control issues related to public health. They are clearly just completely foundering amidst whatever it is they think they are responsible for and have absolutely no competent leadership internally whatsoever.

 

The terms of the conditional sail order and what led up to it are almost completely irrelevant in a post-vaccinated world, and even in an almost-vaccinated world. Consider the cruise ship a microcosm, a controlled experiment, and one where people can be readily monitored and quarantined quickly, too.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

Cruise lines have gone above and beyond.  The CDC just has no interest in allowing them to restart.

 

What necessary change has the CDC asked cruise lines to do that the cruise lines had enough info to satisfy that they haven't done?

While i am currently looking to book a cruise What have the cruise lines done?

I respect Chengkp75s opinion since he is the only one on these boards that isnt talking out their arse's concerning what actually goes on onboard a ship 

 

Edited by jonbgd
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31 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

Cruise lines have gone above and beyond.  The CDC just has no interest in allowing them to restart.

 

What necessary change has the CDC asked cruise lines to do that the cruise lines had enough info to satisfy that they haven't done?

The cruise lines had enough info to create proposed action plans back last April.  Regulatory agencies like the CDC only resorts to "technical instructions" when there is no feedback from industry with regards to requirements the regulatory agency has already promulgated.  The CDC set the requirements back in April 2020, and the cruise lines did nothing.  They took months to even put together advisory panels, they took more months before they complied with the crew rules, even though that system had been in place since June 2020.  Since the industry never came back with action plans, only advisory board recommendations (again, the what not the how), the CDC had to resort to technical instructions to spell out the requirements in more detail.

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21 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Why is it that international flights are allowed?  The CDC should control airlines too then -- but they don't.  

They do control international flights.  But as there have been almost no cases of community transmission on international flights, their recommendations are different than cruise ships, plus it is a totally different environment between airplanes and cruise ships.

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14 minutes ago, dswallow said:

Even worse, is the CDC is doing almost nothing anywhere else within the country where they do have jurisdiction to control issues related to public health.

Please advise where "in the country" the CDC has jurisdiction.

 

14 minutes ago, dswallow said:

The terms of the conditional sail order and what led up to it are almost completely irrelevant in a post-vaccinated world, and even in an almost-vaccinated world.

What do you consider an "almost vaccinated world"?  Does this include the Philippines, which supplies one third of cruise ship crew, and has only received about 500k doses of the vaccine, has vaccinated about 0.1% of the population, and where only 19% are willing to be vaccinated, and 46% are unwilling?

Unless you are going to go with a fully US crew, the vaccination rates for crew are going to be low for a long time.

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6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The cruise lines had enough info to create proposed action plans back last April.  Regulatory agencies like the CDC only resorts to "technical instructions" when there is no feedback from industry with regards to requirements the regulatory agency has already promulgated.  The CDC set the requirements back in April 2020, and the cruise lines did nothing.  They took months to even put together advisory panels, they took more months before they complied with the crew rules, even though that system had been in place since June 2020.  Since the industry never came back with action plans, only advisory board recommendations (again, the what not the how), the CDC had to resort to technical instructions to spell out the requirements in more detail.

I have to agree with what you are saying.  But...  what would prevent the CDC from adding a clause spelling out very specific requirements for a limited number of ships to sail for a specific period of time?  As a suggestion, 100% vaccinated employees and passengers, live within four driving hours of the port, no international travel for 14 days prior to the cruise, for a sixty-day period?  Couldn’t something like that be done as a limited exception?

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