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New technical instructions - Phase 2a


paulh84
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Posted (edited)

Broken down into four main elements. Apparently cruise lines have been aware of this for quite some time. It's been alluded to on this site several times. They want plans for a worst case scenario. 

  1. Vaccination Components of a Cruise Ship Operator’s Agreement with Port and Local Health Authorities
  2. Additional Port Components of a Cruise Ship Operator’s Agreement with Port and Local Health Authorities
  3. Medical Care Components of a Cruise Ship Operator’s Agreement with Port and Local Health Authorities
  4. Housing Components of a Cruise Ship Operator’s Agreement with Port and Local Health Authorities

 

 

 

 

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Edited by paulh84
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27 minutes ago, Auntiemomo said:

 

I guess you think running the entire country can be McGyvered with a toothpick, a rubber band and a wing nut?

 

When you're about to have surgery are you happy to proceed without a surgeon who has a demonstrated knowledge of all that "medical goobledygook"?

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Auntiemomo said:

Well.....I Have absolutely NO legal education but it certainly is not “gobbledygook” to me.  Just plain common sense given the times we are living in....if you want to cruise with all the bases covered....

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If I'm reading this right the local agreements only refer to US ports where the ships embark/disembark or make port stops.   Is that what others think as well?

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15 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

If I'm reading this right the local agreements only refer to US ports where the ships embark/disembark or make port stops.   Is that what others think as well?

That’s the only place the CDC has any authority.

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1 hour ago, wrk2cruise said:

If I'm reading this right the local agreements only refer to US ports where the ships embark/disembark or make port stops.   Is that what others think as well?

Based upon the definition they included it would appear so

 

  • For the purpose of these technical instructions only, “local health authorities” refers to all health departments responsible for implementing state, territorial, and local laws relating to public health (e.g., city, county, territorial, and/or state health departments) and exercising jurisdiction over the U.S. port where the cruise ship operator intends to conduct one or more simulated voyages and commence restricted passenger operations.
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1 hour ago, grandgeezer said:

That’s the only place the CDC has any authority.

Yes and no.  Since the ship is coming to or returning to the US they could implement requirements that apply outside of US waters during  that voyage.  For example with the rule about needing to test prior to boarding an international flight returning to the US.  Those rules are clearly being enforced during the boarding process in a different country, not when they arrive on US soil.

 

They can similar apply rules that will apply to the entire voyage in order to maintain the ability to enter the US ports on return.

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8 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

If I'm reading this right the local agreements only refer to US ports where the ships embark/disembark or make port stops.   Is that what others think as well?

 

Yes, I think you're correct.  This is the framework for the agreements that must be in place between the local officials and the cruise lines for the embark/disembark ports and port stops in order for the test cruises to occur.  After these agreements are in place, the CDC will allow the cruise lines to re-crew the ships according to their rules.  I don't really see any major changes from the previous CDC direction.  However the recognition of the performance of the vaccines should lower the risk and decrease the probability of a widespread outbreak onboard the ship as well as significantly reduce the impact on the local communities.  I would hope the cruise lines and the port cities could complete these agreements quickly.   But it will still be months before cruising will resume from US ports.  

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10 hours ago, PEIpair said:

Well.....I Have absolutely NO legal education but it certainly is not “gobbledygook” to me.  Just plain common sense given the times we are living in....if you want to cruise with all the bases covered....

 I agree most is common sense but I  think it is a very complex document.. Lots of pieces must fall in place,  and need approvals from diff authorities aside from CDC.

 

The chart posted by paulh84  at post #4, breaks it down more easily for those who prefer a summary.    

 

Still hopeful it can all be pulled together but  seems challenging!

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17 minutes ago, hcat said:

 I agree most is common sense but I  think it is a very complex document.. Lots of pieces must fall in place,  and need approvals from diff authorities aside from CDC.

 

The chart posted by paulh84  at post #4, breaks it down more easily for those who prefer a summary.    

 

Still hopeful it can all be pulled together but  seems challenging!

 

It may happen quicker than you think.  Everyone but the CDC has an economic interest in resuming cruising.

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I notice some key issues missing (or purposely excluded) from the latest documents.  There does not seem to be any mention of a 7 day cruise maximum and very little additional information regarding the so-called "test cruises."  There is no additional mention of a ship by ship certification (by the CDC) process although they do mention that agreements with ports must list all the ships covered by the agreement.  

 

It seems like the CDC might be slowly moving towards something that is actually workable (we can hope).  Their guidance on vaccines is very carefully worded to allow the cruise lines lots of flexibility in that it says everyone who can be vaccinated should be vaccinated but it does not use language that would make it a mandate (I am guessing that most cruise lines will make mandatory adult vaccination part of their plan).    I would think that one or more cruise lines will now submit restart proposals which would force the CDC to actually make a decision.

 

Hank

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9 hours ago, nocl said:

Based upon the definition they included it would appear so

 

  • For the purpose of these technical instructions only, “local health authorities” refers to all health departments responsible for implementing state, territorial, and local laws relating to public health (e.g., city, county, territorial, and/or state health departments) and exercising jurisdiction over the U.S. port where the cruise ship operator intends to conduct one or more simulated voyages and commence restricted passenger operations.

 

So for me, to resume the Caribbean season this summer with planned Equinox Edge sailings from PE and Bermuda from Cape Liberty they would have to have these agreements in place in just 2 ports. 

 

To me they will probably drop any US port stops like Newport, Charleston, Key West to avoid the requirement.

 

Of course this shines the light on the fact that we have no idea if there are any similar agreements between Celebrity and the Caribbean ports of the currently planned sailings when positive cases and traveling party or contact traced individuals are put off in one of these ports.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, hcat said:

Too many steps....the impossible  quest????

 

They've known about port service agreements for a while. Next step is a simulated sailing. The service agreements have been posted about here for quite a while. If cruiselines are more in the dark than CC nuts, that's a big problem!

 

20 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I notice some key issues missing (or purposely excluded) from the latest documents.  There does not seem to be any mention of a 7 day cruise maximum and very little additional information regarding the so-called "test cruises."  There is no additional mention of a ship by ship certification (by the CDC) process although they do mention that agreements with ports must list all the ships covered by the agreement.  

 

It seems like the CDC might be slowly moving towards something that is actually workable (we can hope).  Their guidance on vaccines is very carefully worded to allow the cruise lines lots of flexibility in that it says everyone who can be vaccinated should be vaccinated but it does not use language that would make it a mandate (I am guessing that most cruise lines will make mandatory adult vaccination part of their plan).    I would think that one or more cruise lines will now submit restart proposals which would force the CDC to actually make a decision.

 

Hank

 

This portion does not include all of the elements for test cruises based on #17. The initial CSO document mentions the 7 day rule which still applies. 

 

#17 A copy of the signed and executed agreement (including all attachments, exhibits, and annexes) must also be provided to CDC as part of a cruise ship operator’s application to conduct one or more simulated voyages. CDC will provide additional information about simulated voyages in future technical instructions and orders.

 

Edited by paulh84
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I'm finding this statement in the Purpose section interesting:

 

As required by the terms of CDC’s Framework for Conditional Sailing Order, a cruise ship operator must document the approval of all U.S. port and local health authorities where the ship intends to dock or make port during one or more simulated voyages or restricted passenger voyages as a condition of receiving or retaining controlled free pratique for conducting one or more simulated voyages or receiving and retaining a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate.

 

And then later in the Restricted Sail Components section:

 

A cruise ship operator must document the approval of all U.S. port and local health authorities where the ship intends to dock or make port during one or more simulated voyages or restricted passenger voyages as a condition of receiving or retaining controlled free pratique for conducting one or more simulated voyages or obtaining and retaining a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate. 

 

When Celebrity announced their new Caribbean cruises out of San Maarten, they noted they would be sailing at a reduced capacity, mainly by blocking the sale of inside and oceanview cabins, which usually equates to around 40+% of the cabins. I'm just wondering if this option might be used for the first Edge and Equinox cruises out of Ft Lauderdale as an alternative to having to do "no revenue" test sailings as part of the CDC certification process. Obviously, I have no idea, but thought the addition of the "restricted passenger voyages" option was interesting.

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Could “restricted passenger voyages” mean something like travel agents or invited guests only?  I don’t think it sounds like they just mean reduced capacity.

Jane

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1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

It may happen quicker than you think.  Everyone but the CDC has an economic interest in resuming cruising.

True..but will CDC speed things up  b/c of that?

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14 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

They've known about port service agreements for a while. Next step is a simulated sailing. The service agreements have been posted about here for quite a while. If cruiselines are more in the dark than CC nuts, that's a big problem!

 

 

This portion does not include all of the elements for test cruises based on #17. The initial CSO document mentions the 7 day rule which still applies. 

 

#17 A copy of the signed and executed agreement (including all attachments, exhibits, and annexes) must also be provided to CDC as part of a cruise ship operator’s application to conduct one or more simulated voyages. CDC will provide additional information about simulated voyages in future technical instructions and orders.

 

Yeah, I did see that language and wondered about the use of "simulated cruise."  The original idea of each ship having to have a "test cruise" with real passengers (who do not pay) always seemed to me to be one of the more onerous items int the framework.  A "simulated voyage" could have differing interpretations.  For example, one could "simulate" a cruise without actually having a cruise.  Expecting each cruise line to conduct a real "test cruise" on each and every ship with unpaying passengers is a very expensive proposition that we suspect will disappear from final restart deals.  

 

I think we do need to consider that when the framework was written (back in October) there were no approved vaccines!  But vaccines are a game changer (which seems to be reflected in the latest CDC documents) which may make many of the framework ideas/conditions obsolete.  But it was not until yesterday that the CDC finally published a document that puts vaccination into the mix for the cruise lines.

 

Hank
 

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12 minutes ago, JaneStarr said:

Could “restricted passenger voyages” mean something like travel agents or invited guests only?  I don’t think it sounds like they just mean reduced capacity.

Jane

Possibly. I just thought it was interesting that they added that optional wording.

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Posted (edited)

Will this section be a problem for the mega Ports -

 

General components of a Cruise Ship Operator’s Agreement with Port and Local Health Authorities, sections 11 and 12

  • The agreement must be specific regarding the following:
    • number of ships that will be permitted to make port, embark, and disembark,
    • hours of the day, and days of the week, and during which these activities will occur, and
    • maximum number of travelers permitted during those hours and on those days.
  • If the port authority intends to allow more than one cruise ship operator to operate at its port facilities, then the port authority and local public health authorities should jointly consider the numbers of ships and maximum number of travelers (passengers and crew) that can safely operate, make port, embark, or disembark at any one time. Specifically, the parties should consider whether allowing multiple cruise ships to operate at any one time would potentially overwhelm necessary medical supplies or the ability of local public health, port authorities, hospital, and other emergency response personnel to respond to an onboard outbreak of COVID-19, particularly if the jurisdiction experiences an unanticipated simultaneous surge of cases.


above contained within this link:

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/instructions-local-agreements.html
 

Edited by BSocial
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1 minute ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Possibly. I just thought it was interesting that they added that optional wording.

 
I agree that wording is kind of peculiar. I’m not sure which way to interpret it. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

It may happen quicker than you think.  Everyone but the CDC has an economic interest in resuming cruising.

You speak logic.CDC is now panicking seeing so many ships started sailing elsewhere.

They now realized the people working at the ports are important to the economy.

FLORIDA  is the nation's cruise capital with three of the world's busiest ports: Miami, Port Canaveral near Kennedy Space Center, and Port Everglades near Fort Lauderdale. Millions typically cruise from Florida each year and the industry generates billions for the state's economy.

Edited by verizon
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