Jump to content

Florida governor bans Covid-19 'vaccine passports'


Recommended Posts

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/03/us/florida-covid-vaccine-passport-ban/index.html

 

"blocks businesses from requiring any such documentation"

 

So how is this going to work with cruise lines that are requiring vaccination?  Do you think those cruise lines will simply just not do business/port in FL?  I don't have an answer, just curious what others think.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the guise of helping to re-start cruises from Florida, this may likely cause a setback. The last thing a cruise line wants is an outbreak on a future cruise, and this ruling would make that more likely. And I am not sure it is legal to prevent a private company from deciding who to do business with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

this is so stupid. this is called VACCINATION RECORD. we have one that includes all of our vaccines like yellow fever, hep, tetnus, typhoid, shingles etc

Link to post
Share on other sites

My understanding from legal experts quoted in various articles on the vaccine requirement ban is that it's unlikely to stand in court with regard to ports. (Possible exception if going from one Florida port to another, such as Miami to Key West. But if that turns out to be an obstacle the cruise lines will just skip Key West.)

 

But even if Florida loses, getting a court decision and going through possible appeals will take time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/4/2021 at 7:45 AM, Love.II.Cruise said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/03/us/florida-covid-vaccine-passport-ban/index.html

 

"blocks businesses from requiring any such documentation"

 

So how is this going to work with cruise lines that are requiring vaccination?  Do you think those cruise lines will simply just not do business/port in FL?  I don't have an answer, just curious what others think.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a mixed bag on this. Probably each cruise line will make a business decision on whether or not to require vaccination. Those who decide to require vaccination will have decided that it's more advantageous to them to not sail from Florida at all than it is to risk an outbreak. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

If Ship Owners require all passengers to be vaccinated they have that right and Florida argues against this Its easy the Cruise lines  just pulls up stakes and move to another port state like Texas, New Orleans and the state of Florida loses out on all the business.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As a non-American, can someone explain the political and/or logical and/or scientific reasoning behind this bill?

I'm from Denmark, and what I have read about the bill seems like completely reversed logic.

In Denmark, we are slowly opening up business across the board; indoor dining, cinemas, fitness centers etc. However, all indoor-based non-retail businesses (ie. fitness centres, dining, cinemas etc.) MUST require valid Covid passports, either showing completed vaccination or a negative PCR/antigen test not older than 72 hours. Both test types are available completely free for anyone in Denmark. Just a few days ago, Covid immunity (from an earlier contracting of Covid) was added as a valid option in the Covid passport. The Covid passport is available as an phone app or on print. The latest major re-opening was just last week on May 6, and I couldn't even imagine BANNING Covid passports in that situation, like I understand DeSantis is aiming to do.

 

Any layman explanation about this bill is highly appreciated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, you’re likely to get some impassioned responses on this one. Everything in the US is becoming politically tribalized, unfortunately. And DeSantis is a particularly polarizing figure. 
 

My understanding of the rationale behind the directive is this: the COVID vaccines were developed quickly to answer a pressing need. And the two major vaccines in this country are based on a new, unproven technology. (And the third has had some rare side effects that have caused concern.) None of the vaccines have been approved yet by the FDA except for emergency use. Some people are reluctant to get vaccinated right now for these reasons. And now that the vaccine is getting approved for younger children, many who have been vaccinated themselves are finding they are reluctant to make that same call for their children. 
 

There was also an awful point in our history where people of color were used for medical experimentation, which has led to a distrust among a substantial number in that community that persists today, especially toward vaccines that are strongly pushed by the government. 


For these reasons, as I understand it, the governor of Florida wants to ensure that people who choose not to get the vaccine at this time — either for themselves or their children — will not be treated as lesser citizens with fewer rights.
 

From what I can tell, underlying Florida’s directive are a couple of assumptions. First is the assumption that those who do get vaccinated will be protected from getting COVID or from getting seriously ill from COVID, so their risk from being around people who choose not to get vaccinated is low. Not zero, but low. This is an assumption that needs time in order to be proven, which is why there is strong pushback against Florida’s approach. 
 

Second is the assumption that herd immunity — and thus eradicating COVID entirely — is not achievable anytime soon, if ever. We are all too interconnected now across the globe, and COVID is too widespread. It has become one of the circulating viruses we need to find ways to live with, and each of us must decide what level of risk we’re willing to take, including whether to take an experimental vaccine.
 

That’s my understanding of the rationale behind Florida’s directive. 
 

For my part, I’ve been vaccinated but have no issue with those who are currently choosing otherwise for the above reasons. Based on the data I’ve seen so far, the first assumption I mentioned appears to be accurate — the vaccinated have an extremely low chance of getting seriously ill from COVID. So I’m good with dining, working, exercising, etc. with everyone, vaccinated or otherwise. I also believe no one should be coerced into taking any drug, especially one with so little track record as these. And since they’re unlikely to cause harm to the rest of us, the unvaccinated should continue to have the same rights as anyone else. But that’s just me. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

My husband will not cruise out of Florida if vaccination status is not allowed to be taken.  A flight, a movie, a concert is very different from a cruise.  If Florida does not allow vaccinations to be required we will either not cruise or cruise out of a state that allows the cruise line to require vaccines.  I have taken a number of excellent cruises out of San Juan.  I have a cruise scheduled in February out of Florida but I can cancel up to October.  I very well may.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Twitchly, thank you for your reply.

It sounds like the Covid passport in the US (or Florida) can only be valid with a completed vaccination program, as opposed to a negative PCR/antigen test not older than XX hours (as is the case in Denmark and I believe all of EU). If a negative test result is also valid, why would that not be sufficient to gain access to the event/facility/business in question, hence making DeSantis' bill and reasoning "invalid"? I can understand that some people may choose not to get vaccinated, be it a personal/philosophical or medical reason, in Denmark the vaccine is voluntary (and free) as well. But those people then still have the possibility of going to Covid passport-mandated locations by showing a negative PCR/antigen test not older than 72 hours. The very very low amount of people who, due to medical reasons, should not take Covid tests, are exempt from the Covid passport requirement, no doctor's attestation needed. The same applies for the mask requirement. It seems very excessive to propose a bill specifically forbidding the use of the Covid passport.

Sorry if this is getting too political, if this post is already too much, the moderators are free to delete the post.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mikkelhansen said:

@Twitchly, thank you for your reply.

It sounds like the Covid passport in the US (or Florida) can only be valid with a completed vaccination program, as opposed to a negative PCR/antigen test not older than XX hours (as is the case in Denmark and I believe all of EU). If a negative test result is also valid, why would that not be sufficient to gain access to the event/facility/business in question, hence making DeSantis' bill and reasoning "invalid"? I can understand that some people may choose not to get vaccinated, be it a personal/philosophical or medical reason, in Denmark the vaccine is voluntary (and free) as well. But those people then still have the possibility of going to Covid passport-mandated locations by showing a negative PCR/antigen test not older than 72 hours. The very very low amount of people who, due to medical reasons, should not take Covid tests, are exempt from the Covid passport requirement, no doctor's attestation needed. The same applies for the mask requirement. It seems very excessive to propose a bill specifically forbidding the use of the Covid passport.

Sorry if this is getting too political, if this post is already too much, the moderators are free to delete the post.


If two assumptions are true, then testing people for COVID as a protection measure is no longer necessary. The assumptions are:
 

1. Vaccinated people are highly unlikely to get or transmit COVID.

2. Everyone who wants a vaccine has access to one.

 

At that point, the only people who would be affected by someone with COVID are people who have chosen to remain unvaccinated. I believe Florida’s approach would put the responsibility on those individuals to guard their own health in whatever way makes sense to them rather than make the government or other entities responsible. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guarding my health means only cruising with vaccinated passengers.  I believe I have that right.  If not I I will not cruise out of Florida.  Simple as that.  Testing doesn't work as it is only valid for a moment in time.  There are many options for vacationing.  I can cruise else where, go to Hawaii, Europe, all inclusive, etc.  I will not cruise with unvaccinated passengers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
On 5/13/2021 at 9:20 AM, Twitchly said:

Well, you’re likely to get some impassioned responses on this one. Everything in the US is becoming politically tribalized, unfortunately. And DeSantis is a particularly polarizing figure. 
 

My understanding of the rationale behind the directive is this: the COVID vaccines were developed quickly to answer a pressing need. And the two major vaccines in this country are based on a new, unproven technology. (And the third has had some rare side effects that have caused concern.) None of the vaccines have been approved yet by the FDA except for emergency use. Some people are reluctant to get vaccinated right now for these reasons. And now that the vaccine is getting approved for younger children, many who have been vaccinated themselves are finding they are reluctant to make that same call for their children. 
 

There was also an awful point in our history where people of color were used for medical experimentation, which has led to a distrust among a substantial number in that community that persists today, especially toward vaccines that are strongly pushed by the government. 


For these reasons, as I understand it, the governor of Florida wants to ensure that people who choose not to get the vaccine at this time — either for themselves or their children — will not be treated as lesser citizens with fewer rights.
 

From what I can tell, underlying Florida’s directive are a couple of assumptions. First is the assumption that those who do get vaccinated will be protected from getting COVID or from getting seriously ill from COVID, so their risk from being around people who choose not to get vaccinated is low. Not zero, but low. This is an assumption that needs time in order to be proven, which is why there is strong pushback against Florida’s approach. 
 

Second is the assumption that herd immunity — and thus eradicating COVID entirely — is not achievable anytime soon, if ever. We are all too interconnected now across the globe, and COVID is too widespread. It has become one of the circulating viruses we need to find ways to live with, and each of us must decide what level of risk we’re willing to take, including whether to take an experimental vaccine.
 

That’s my understanding of the rationale behind Florida’s directive. 
 

For my part, I’ve been vaccinated but have no issue with those who are currently choosing otherwise for the above reasons. Based on the data I’ve seen so far, the first assumption I mentioned appears to be accurate — the vaccinated have an extremely low chance of getting seriously ill from COVID. So I’m good with dining, working, exercising, etc. with everyone, vaccinated or otherwise. I also believe no one should be coerced into taking any drug, especially one with so little track record as these. And since they’re unlikely to cause harm to the rest of us, the unvaccinated should continue to have the same rights as anyone else. But that’s just me. 

 

I think cruising is much different than going to a restaurant, theater, or Disneyland. I respect your tolerance for the unvaccinated, but these folks will be visiting multiple ports and coming into contact with many people. If there is an outbreak on board, then the ship will return to its departure site or sit off shore. I don’t fear for my own health, but I don’t want to lose my vacation because some don’t want to get a vaccination. It’s a reasonable request to require a vaccination for participating on a cruise and if someone doesn’t want to get a vaccine, then they should find another vacation outlet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/9/2021 at 1:14 PM, KericJan said:

 If there is an outbreak on board, then the ship will return to its departure site or sit off shore. I don’t fear for my own health, but I don’t want to lose my vacation because some don’t want to get a vaccination.


Yeah, I think that’s probably the strongest argument for requiring vaccination to cruise, at least for now as we ease back into travel. So far, the cruises with a couple positive cases have been able to continue, but ports were missed. Covid may not make us sick anymore, but it can still disrupt everybody’s trip.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/13/2021 at 9:00 PM, jrblach said:

this is so stupid. this is called VACCINATION RECORD. we have one that includes all of our vaccines like yellow fever, hep, tetnus, typhoid, shingles etc

Thank you. I have one too. Vaccinations have been required to visit various countries for years. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Thank You for 25 Years - Click for Fun Stuff!
      • Forum Assistance
      • ANNOUNCEMENT: Crystal Cruises - New! Luxury Bahamas Escapes
      • ICYM Our Cruise Critic Live Special Event: Explore the Remote World with Hurtigruten!
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...