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Florida governor bans Covid-19 'vaccine passports'


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https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/03/us/florida-covid-vaccine-passport-ban/index.html

 

"blocks businesses from requiring any such documentation"

 

So how is this going to work with cruise lines that are requiring vaccination?  Do you think those cruise lines will simply just not do business/port in FL?  I don't have an answer, just curious what others think.

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In the guise of helping to re-start cruises from Florida, this may likely cause a setback. The last thing a cruise line wants is an outbreak on a future cruise, and this ruling would make that more likely. And I am not sure it is legal to prevent a private company from deciding who to do business with.

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this is so stupid. this is called VACCINATION RECORD. we have one that includes all of our vaccines like yellow fever, hep, tetnus, typhoid, shingles etc

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My understanding from legal experts quoted in various articles on the vaccine requirement ban is that it's unlikely to stand in court with regard to ports. (Possible exception if going from one Florida port to another, such as Miami to Key West. But if that turns out to be an obstacle the cruise lines will just skip Key West.)

 

But even if Florida loses, getting a court decision and going through possible appeals will take time.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/4/2021 at 7:45 AM, Love.II.Cruise said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/03/us/florida-covid-vaccine-passport-ban/index.html

 

"blocks businesses from requiring any such documentation"

 

So how is this going to work with cruise lines that are requiring vaccination?  Do you think those cruise lines will simply just not do business/port in FL?  I don't have an answer, just curious what others think.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a mixed bag on this. Probably each cruise line will make a business decision on whether or not to require vaccination. Those who decide to require vaccination will have decided that it's more advantageous to them to not sail from Florida at all than it is to risk an outbreak. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

If Ship Owners require all passengers to be vaccinated they have that right and Florida argues against this Its easy the Cruise lines  just pulls up stakes and move to another port state like Texas, New Orleans and the state of Florida loses out on all the business.

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As a non-American, can someone explain the political and/or logical and/or scientific reasoning behind this bill?

I'm from Denmark, and what I have read about the bill seems like completely reversed logic.

In Denmark, we are slowly opening up business across the board; indoor dining, cinemas, fitness centers etc. However, all indoor-based non-retail businesses (ie. fitness centres, dining, cinemas etc.) MUST require valid Covid passports, either showing completed vaccination or a negative PCR/antigen test not older than 72 hours. Both test types are available completely free for anyone in Denmark. Just a few days ago, Covid immunity (from an earlier contracting of Covid) was added as a valid option in the Covid passport. The Covid passport is available as an phone app or on print. The latest major re-opening was just last week on May 6, and I couldn't even imagine BANNING Covid passports in that situation, like I understand DeSantis is aiming to do.

 

Any layman explanation about this bill is highly appreciated.

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Well, you’re likely to get some impassioned responses on this one. Everything in the US is becoming politically tribalized, unfortunately. And DeSantis is a particularly polarizing figure. 
 

My understanding of the rationale behind the directive is this: the COVID vaccines were developed quickly to answer a pressing need. And the two major vaccines in this country are based on a new, unproven technology. (And the third has had some rare side effects that have caused concern.) None of the vaccines have been approved yet by the FDA except for emergency use. Some people are reluctant to get vaccinated right now for these reasons. And now that the vaccine is getting approved for younger children, many who have been vaccinated themselves are finding they are reluctant to make that same call for their children. 
 

There was also an awful point in our history where people of color were used for medical experimentation, which has led to a distrust among a substantial number in that community that persists today, especially toward vaccines that are strongly pushed by the government. 


For these reasons, as I understand it, the governor of Florida wants to ensure that people who choose not to get the vaccine at this time — either for themselves or their children — will not be treated as lesser citizens with fewer rights.
 

From what I can tell, underlying Florida’s directive are a couple of assumptions. First is the assumption that those who do get vaccinated will be protected from getting COVID or from getting seriously ill from COVID, so their risk from being around people who choose not to get vaccinated is low. Not zero, but low. This is an assumption that needs time in order to be proven, which is why there is strong pushback against Florida’s approach. 
 

Second is the assumption that herd immunity — and thus eradicating COVID entirely — is not achievable anytime soon, if ever. We are all too interconnected now across the globe, and COVID is too widespread. It has become one of the circulating viruses we need to find ways to live with, and each of us must decide what level of risk we’re willing to take, including whether to take an experimental vaccine.
 

That’s my understanding of the rationale behind Florida’s directive. 
 

For my part, I’ve been vaccinated but have no issue with those who are currently choosing otherwise for the above reasons. Based on the data I’ve seen so far, the first assumption I mentioned appears to be accurate — the vaccinated have an extremely low chance of getting seriously ill from COVID. So I’m good with dining, working, exercising, etc. with everyone, vaccinated or otherwise. I also believe no one should be coerced into taking any drug, especially one with so little track record as these. And since they’re unlikely to cause harm to the rest of us, the unvaccinated should continue to have the same rights as anyone else. But that’s just me. 

 

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My husband will not cruise out of Florida if vaccination status is not allowed to be taken.  A flight, a movie, a concert is very different from a cruise.  If Florida does not allow vaccinations to be required we will either not cruise or cruise out of a state that allows the cruise line to require vaccines.  I have taken a number of excellent cruises out of San Juan.  I have a cruise scheduled in February out of Florida but I can cancel up to October.  I very well may.

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@Twitchly, thank you for your reply.

It sounds like the Covid passport in the US (or Florida) can only be valid with a completed vaccination program, as opposed to a negative PCR/antigen test not older than XX hours (as is the case in Denmark and I believe all of EU). If a negative test result is also valid, why would that not be sufficient to gain access to the event/facility/business in question, hence making DeSantis' bill and reasoning "invalid"? I can understand that some people may choose not to get vaccinated, be it a personal/philosophical or medical reason, in Denmark the vaccine is voluntary (and free) as well. But those people then still have the possibility of going to Covid passport-mandated locations by showing a negative PCR/antigen test not older than 72 hours. The very very low amount of people who, due to medical reasons, should not take Covid tests, are exempt from the Covid passport requirement, no doctor's attestation needed. The same applies for the mask requirement. It seems very excessive to propose a bill specifically forbidding the use of the Covid passport.

Sorry if this is getting too political, if this post is already too much, the moderators are free to delete the post.

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10 hours ago, mikkelhansen said:

@Twitchly, thank you for your reply.

It sounds like the Covid passport in the US (or Florida) can only be valid with a completed vaccination program, as opposed to a negative PCR/antigen test not older than XX hours (as is the case in Denmark and I believe all of EU). If a negative test result is also valid, why would that not be sufficient to gain access to the event/facility/business in question, hence making DeSantis' bill and reasoning "invalid"? I can understand that some people may choose not to get vaccinated, be it a personal/philosophical or medical reason, in Denmark the vaccine is voluntary (and free) as well. But those people then still have the possibility of going to Covid passport-mandated locations by showing a negative PCR/antigen test not older than 72 hours. The very very low amount of people who, due to medical reasons, should not take Covid tests, are exempt from the Covid passport requirement, no doctor's attestation needed. The same applies for the mask requirement. It seems very excessive to propose a bill specifically forbidding the use of the Covid passport.

Sorry if this is getting too political, if this post is already too much, the moderators are free to delete the post.


If two assumptions are true, then testing people for COVID as a protection measure is no longer necessary. The assumptions are:
 

1. Vaccinated people are highly unlikely to get or transmit COVID.

2. Everyone who wants a vaccine has access to one.

 

At that point, the only people who would be affected by someone with COVID are people who have chosen to remain unvaccinated. I believe Florida’s approach would put the responsibility on those individuals to guard their own health in whatever way makes sense to them rather than make the government or other entities responsible. 

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Guarding my health means only cruising with vaccinated passengers.  I believe I have that right.  If not I I will not cruise out of Florida.  Simple as that.  Testing doesn't work as it is only valid for a moment in time.  There are many options for vacationing.  I can cruise else where, go to Hawaii, Europe, all inclusive, etc.  I will not cruise with unvaccinated passengers.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 5/13/2021 at 9:20 AM, Twitchly said:

Well, you’re likely to get some impassioned responses on this one. Everything in the US is becoming politically tribalized, unfortunately. And DeSantis is a particularly polarizing figure. 
 

My understanding of the rationale behind the directive is this: the COVID vaccines were developed quickly to answer a pressing need. And the two major vaccines in this country are based on a new, unproven technology. (And the third has had some rare side effects that have caused concern.) None of the vaccines have been approved yet by the FDA except for emergency use. Some people are reluctant to get vaccinated right now for these reasons. And now that the vaccine is getting approved for younger children, many who have been vaccinated themselves are finding they are reluctant to make that same call for their children. 
 

There was also an awful point in our history where people of color were used for medical experimentation, which has led to a distrust among a substantial number in that community that persists today, especially toward vaccines that are strongly pushed by the government. 


For these reasons, as I understand it, the governor of Florida wants to ensure that people who choose not to get the vaccine at this time — either for themselves or their children — will not be treated as lesser citizens with fewer rights.
 

From what I can tell, underlying Florida’s directive are a couple of assumptions. First is the assumption that those who do get vaccinated will be protected from getting COVID or from getting seriously ill from COVID, so their risk from being around people who choose not to get vaccinated is low. Not zero, but low. This is an assumption that needs time in order to be proven, which is why there is strong pushback against Florida’s approach. 
 

Second is the assumption that herd immunity — and thus eradicating COVID entirely — is not achievable anytime soon, if ever. We are all too interconnected now across the globe, and COVID is too widespread. It has become one of the circulating viruses we need to find ways to live with, and each of us must decide what level of risk we’re willing to take, including whether to take an experimental vaccine.
 

That’s my understanding of the rationale behind Florida’s directive. 
 

For my part, I’ve been vaccinated but have no issue with those who are currently choosing otherwise for the above reasons. Based on the data I’ve seen so far, the first assumption I mentioned appears to be accurate — the vaccinated have an extremely low chance of getting seriously ill from COVID. So I’m good with dining, working, exercising, etc. with everyone, vaccinated or otherwise. I also believe no one should be coerced into taking any drug, especially one with so little track record as these. And since they’re unlikely to cause harm to the rest of us, the unvaccinated should continue to have the same rights as anyone else. But that’s just me. 

 

I think cruising is much different than going to a restaurant, theater, or Disneyland. I respect your tolerance for the unvaccinated, but these folks will be visiting multiple ports and coming into contact with many people. If there is an outbreak on board, then the ship will return to its departure site or sit off shore. I don’t fear for my own health, but I don’t want to lose my vacation because some don’t want to get a vaccination. It’s a reasonable request to require a vaccination for participating on a cruise and if someone doesn’t want to get a vaccine, then they should find another vacation outlet.

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On 6/9/2021 at 1:14 PM, KericJan said:

 If there is an outbreak on board, then the ship will return to its departure site or sit off shore. I don’t fear for my own health, but I don’t want to lose my vacation because some don’t want to get a vaccination.


Yeah, I think that’s probably the strongest argument for requiring vaccination to cruise, at least for now as we ease back into travel. So far, the cruises with a couple positive cases have been able to continue, but ports were missed. Covid may not make us sick anymore, but it can still disrupt everybody’s trip.

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On 4/13/2021 at 9:00 PM, jrblach said:

this is so stupid. this is called VACCINATION RECORD. we have one that includes all of our vaccines like yellow fever, hep, tetnus, typhoid, shingles etc

Thank you. I have one too. Vaccinations have been required to visit various countries for years. 

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On 5/13/2021 at 12:20 PM, Twitchly said:

Well, you’re likely to get some impassioned responses on this one. Everything in the US is becoming politically tribalized, unfortunately. And DeSantis is a particularly polarizing figure. 
 

My understanding of the rationale behind the directive is this: the COVID vaccines were developed quickly to answer a pressing need. And the two major vaccines in this country are based on a new, unproven technology. (And the third has had some rare side effects that have caused concern.) None of the vaccines have been approved yet by the FDA except for emergency use. Some people are reluctant to get vaccinated right now for these reasons. And now that the vaccine is getting approved for younger children, many who have been vaccinated themselves are finding they are reluctant to make that same call for their children. 
 

There was also an awful point in our history where people of color were used for medical experimentation, which has led to a distrust among a substantial number in that community that persists today, especially toward vaccines that are strongly pushed by the government. 


For these reasons, as I understand it, the governor of Florida wants to ensure that people who choose not to get the vaccine at this time — either for themselves or their children — will not be treated as lesser citizens with fewer rights.
 

From what I can tell, underlying Florida’s directive are a couple of assumptions. First is the assumption that those who do get vaccinated will be protected from getting COVID or from getting seriously ill from COVID, so their risk from being around people who choose not to get vaccinated is low. Not zero, but low. This is an assumption that needs time in order to be proven, which is why there is strong pushback against Florida’s approach. 
 

Second is the assumption that herd immunity — and thus eradicating COVID entirely — is not achievable anytime soon, if ever. We are all too interconnected now across the globe, and COVID is too widespread. It has become one of the circulating viruses we need to find ways to live with, and each of us must decide what level of risk we’re willing to take, including whether to take an experimental vaccine.
 

That’s my understanding of the rationale behind Florida’s directive. 
 

For my part, I’ve been vaccinated but have no issue with those who are currently choosing otherwise for the above reasons. Based on the data I’ve seen so far, the first assumption I mentioned appears to be accurate — the vaccinated have an extremely low chance of getting seriously ill from COVID. So I’m good with dining, working, exercising, etc. with everyone, vaccinated or otherwise. I also believe no one should be coerced into taking any drug, especially one with so little track record as these. And since they’re unlikely to cause harm to the rest of us, the unvaccinated should continue to have the same rights as anyone else. But that’s just me. 

 

 

This is a good discussion of this issue. I respect your opinion. I attended a school where medical experimentation on humans took place, so I understand the history. It was not limited to one location. However, DeSantis has proven time and time again that he is not truly for citizen equality but is definitely grandstanding for his 2024 Presidential run. We will never know the true status of coronavirus in the state of Florida because of the falsified and curated data. Transparency is not his forte.

 

I can appreciate the concerns of people who don’t want the new technology used (it’s actually old technology with a new application, the J&J vaccine uses decades old vaccine technology) or are concerned about the emergency approval process and/or side effects. People have the right to refuse vaccination if that is their choice. I have a medical degree, I worked for FDA at one time, and I chose to be vaccinated. I’ve said from the beginning of this pandemic that it would become endemic and annual (or even semi annual) vaccination would be used similar to the season flu vaccines. In immunocompetent people, vaccines protect them from the disease and limit the spread of disease. But no vaccine is 100% effective.

 

These types of viruses can harbor in a person’s nasal passages (regardless of vaccination status) for up to 72 hours but there haven’t many studies to see how efficient disease spread would be in these situations. But it’s my theory on how vaccinated asymptomatic passengers can test positive. 

 

We should remember that we are currently in the middle of a world wide pandemic.  This is an international medical emergency. There are new variants emerging at any given moment. Had everyone pulled together and done what was necessary when the pandemic began, we would not be having this conversation.

 

All that being said, cruising is a privilege, not a right. The cruise lines are businesses who decide how to keep their employees and customers safe. Vaccination status is not a legally protected class.  One court has recently upheld the mandatory vaccination for a company’s employees. Crew ship employees don’t work if they are sick, quarantined or dead. And a cruise ship doesn’t run without a crew. Any measures the cruise lines take are to protect the crew as well as the passengers. “Fully” vaccinated cruises reduce the risk of disease spread and disease severity. It is simply science. And it would likely be a temporary requirement.

 

The Miami Herald reported today that the cruise lines will likely be assessing additional charges to unvaccinated passengers and enforcing safety precautions. I’ve switched four 2021 fall cruises to 2022. Not because of coronavirus but because of my concern regarding violence from passengers aboard ship when people refuse to abide by the safety precautions. We shall see. 

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On 5/13/2021 at 10:31 PM, mikkelhansen said:

@Twitchly, thank you for your reply.

It sounds like the Covid passport in the US (or Florida) can only be valid with a completed vaccination program, as opposed to a negative PCR/antigen test not older than XX hours (as is the case in Denmark and I believe all of EU). If a negative test result is also valid, why would that not be sufficient to gain access to the event/facility/business in question, hence making DeSantis' bill and reasoning "invalid"? I can understand that some people may choose not to get vaccinated, be it a personal/philosophical or medical reason, in Denmark the vaccine is voluntary (and free) as well. But those people then still have the possibility of going to Covid passport-mandated locations by showing a negative PCR/antigen test not older than 72 hours. The very very low amount of people who, due to medical reasons, should not take Covid tests, are exempt from the Covid passport requirement, no doctor's attestation needed. The same applies for the mask requirement. It seems very excessive to propose a bill specifically forbidding the use of the Covid passport.

Sorry if this is getting too political, if this post is already too much, the moderators are free to delete the post.

Thank you for explanation of the Danish system. Unfortunately, the United States was one of the first, if not the first country, countries to highly politicize this virus instead of following the science as other countries have. Hopefully we will soon be able to sail safely with proper precautions in place. 

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Easier said than done, but they may just decide to move their headquarters elsewhere to a state that will require them.  That could cost BILLIONS of dollars!  Florida can waive buh-bye to all the port fees, taxes, agriculture, and business that the cruise industry brings them.  They could also waive buh-bye to some travel business, especially in regards to the hotel industry.

 

In the short term, cruises could just be re-routed so that they don't visit Florida.  All it would take would be a call to the captains to tell them the new port.  These can be to ports that already serve the cruise industry so that not as many terminals need to be built.  For example, my next cruise is to Port Canaveral and The Bahamas.  The cruise line could easily make arrangements for us to spend and extra day or two in The Bahamas and not visit Florida at all.

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Tired of having to follow this.  I am cancelling my February Celebrity cruise out of Florida and going to do a 14 day Celebrity Cruise from Singapore to Tokyo later in February.  Flying Japan Airlines.  Good job DeSantis.  US airfare, Florida hotel, taxis etc. now going overseas.  My recent viewing of Crazy Rich Asians reinforces this as the correct move.

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Desantis won a court case to make cruising less safe:

 

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/06/19/judge-sides-with-floridas-opposition-to-cdc-rules-on-cruise-lines/

 

since cruise lines were already getting back to business, all he is doing is making it harder for cruise lines to protect us.  What a RINO!

 

I hope the cruise lines pull more business out of Florida to punish him but I doubt it.

 

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On 6/19/2021 at 7:55 AM, seamus69 said:

Desantis won a court case to make cruising less safe:

 

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/06/19/judge-sides-with-floridas-opposition-to-cdc-rules-on-cruise-lines/

 

since cruise lines were already getting back to business, all he is doing is making it harder for cruise lines to protect us.  What a RINO!

 

I hope the cruise lines pull more business out of Florida to punish him but I doubt it.

 

 

That was a great link. Fortunately, it is only temporary.  Can’t wait to hear the complaints from people who have to pay more and are banned from certain venues. 

 

I found it interesting that Florida’s complaint compared cruising to other industries. What other industry keeps the same people in close contact for days on end, sometimes without the ability to leave the structure (i.e. sea days)? Studies of the outbreak on the Princess, pretty much ground zero for cruise ships, determined that the ventilation/air movement system was the reason the virus spread so quickly. Unless they put in HEPA filtration systems on the ships, that can still happen. What other “industry” has been shown to successfully disseminate disease and have hundreds fall sick or die from exposure? Churches come to mind with singing and oral responses, so a ship where people spend days together would be even more efficient in disease spread amongst the unvaccinated.

 

Successful cruising? Those ships probably had passengers from countries with much less disease than the United States and the passengers complied with safety requirements. That won’t happen with a lot of passengers from the United States, there will be physical fights over safety precautions especially now that the unvaccinated will be allowed onboard. I’ve switched or cancelled four fall 2021 cruises. Hopefully by January, things will settle down. 

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On 5/14/2021 at 5:58 AM, Twitchly said:

At that point, the only people who would be affected by someone with COVID are people who have chosen to remain unvaccinated. I believe Florida’s approach would put the responsibility on those individuals to guard their own health in whatever way makes sense to them rather than make the government or other entities responsible. 

Likewise, we could just leave it up to everyone to be responsible (as they see it) for their health and well-being.  Got the flu?  "Well, yes, but I'm not contagious, so I'm not missing my trip".  Don't wash your hands, shower, or wash clothes?  No problem, personal decision.  Can't control bodily functions and don't want to be burdened with diapers etc.?  Welcome aboard.  Chain smoker that needs a smoke every 15 minutes but doesn't want to be restricted as to where?  Light up, it's your own business, those anti-smoking nutjobs are just trying to restrict your freedom.  Don't feel safe without your AR-15?  Bring it along!!

Exaggerated, sure, but these people already have free choice, and unfortunately DeSantis etc. have chosen to restrict the rights of businesses to set basic rules that benefit all of their customers.  Don't want to get vaccinated, think it's all a hoax, want to impress Trump and his ilk, or just like being obstinate?  Fine, go somewhere that welcomes you as you are.

Cruise lines and the passengers are affected adversely if disease or illness breaks out on their cruises, even among only the un-vaccinated.  If the trip is curtailed, you have coughing sick passengers roaming around the decks claiming they feel "fine", or just the bad publicity that results does affect all of us who try to cooperate and do our part.  So let them form their own cruise lines and cruise out of DeSantis's Florida all they want, they're free to do so.

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This only applies to Florida though right? Obviously a major port, but many cruise goers I know of in person and on Reddit are watching closely. If this is only applicable to Florida, a lot of people I know, myself included, will just try to save time and money and go somewhere else to cruise, whether it be other States, Europe, or Asia as long as vaccination proof is required.

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