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NCL Counters CDC new phase with it's own plan. Really bold move.


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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, giustot said:

Even in the unlikely event the NCL request is approved, no one has yet mentioned that the Florida governor has signed an executive order prohibiting any businesses in Florida from requiring proof of vaccination. This idea of requiring vaccinations to cruise still has to play out. It's not as simple as, "a private business can do whatever it wants." Businesses have to obey the law.

 

Tom.

Several areas of federal law completely preempt a governor's ability to set standards for international or even interstate travel including the Commerce Clause,  Martime law and even to an extent immigration and naturalization clauses. Your cruise ticket, which I posted in another thread,  clearly recognizes that state law is almost completely preempted by federal law except for a few irrelevant exceptions

Edited by Stallion
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1 hour ago, giustot said:

Even in the unlikely event the NCL request is approved, no one has yet mentioned that the Florida governor has signed an executive order prohibiting any businesses in Florida from requiring proof of vaccination. This idea of requiring vaccinations to cruise still has to play out. It's not as simple as, "a private business can do whatever it wants." Businesses have to obey the law.

 

Tom.

His Executive order expires in 90 days.

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1 hour ago, iamaqt2 said:

Absolutely.  But the cruise lines are almost all likely to require masking for some time regardless.

FWIW, there's a difference between having a requirement and enforcing one. I was on a ferry 2 weeks ago in Florida and there was a requirement to wear a mask, but most people weren't wearing one and I never saw or heard a crewmember enforce it, despite the fact that they made several announcements over the speaker system. Sooooo... yeah...

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4 hours ago, Sand and Seas said:

They are saying face masks will be required.    This is from NCL's website:

https://www.ncl.com/sail-safe

 

Face Coverings

Face coverings are currently required for guests while indoors except for in their own accommodations and while eating and drinking in restaurants, bars and lounges or outdoors when physical distancing is not possible.

So face coverings not required when:

1. In your own cabin

2. Eating and drinking

3. Outdoors

 

I don't know about you, but that accounts for about 99% of my time on board, so no masks it is! LOL

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Interesting! This completely supports what I have been saying here for months. Cruise ships won't sail under the current CTS because there is too much risk IF a covid case is found onboard.

 

It's not about vaccinations making it safer. The cruise lines need the CDC to amend all the heavy burden requirements  they currently need to meet in the event a positive case is found onboard. Some of those requirements seem excessively expensive and perhaps very difficult (impossible) to comply with.

 

My 2 cent prediction remains,.,,. nothing sails until the CDC reworks the conditions to sail order. Since it expires November 1st, I suspect nothing will be done until then. The big question remains.... what will the CDC do after November 1st. A new order? An amended order? No order?

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7 hours ago, oteixeira said:

https://www.otcdynamics.com/nclh-norwegian-cruise-line-holdings-ltd-submits-plan-to-cdc-and-will-be-ready-to-join-americas-national-opening/

Basically NCL says we will vaccinate all crew and require fully vaccinated guests if you drop all the other stuff you are trying to make us do.  I expect the CDC to deny the request, as it would take away the control they so seem to love over this industry.

I also expect them to deny this and you are exactly right as to why, but I love this move by NCL. 

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The federal government will not mandate the use of vaccine passports for travelers or businesses post-pandemic, President Biden's chief medical adviser, Dr. Anthony Fauci, told the Politico Dispatch podcast Monday.

 

Looks like cruise lines can make there own rules on vaccination requirements? If so, I bet the cruise lines drop it like its hot.

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12 minutes ago, asalligo said:

I also expect them to deny this and you are exactly right as to why, but I love this move by NCL. 

Yeah I'm thinking the same thing they will probably deny it, but it would be nice if it worked. Either way It is nice to see the Cruise lines finally pushing back some. Maybe something will actually get done now.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, SplashOfWater said:

If the CDC says "no" to fully vaccinated cruises, I'm not sure what they would say "yes" to.

You would think that would be enough but the CDC seems to be on some kind of power trip. I hope they do OK it because I'm ready to cruise, but I will not hold my breath that's for sure. If not I'm booking a nice land vacation.

Edited by knight2096
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6 hours ago, SplashOfWater said:

If the CDC says "no" to fully vaccinated cruises, I'm not sure what they would say "yes" to.

I am not sure the CDC has any plans to ever say yes. I think they intend to block cruising as long as they can. Just last week I saw a news article that started with the comment, "The cruise industry has long flouted employment and tax laws by flagging out of country". People like the director of the CDC have no love for the cruise industry. 

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1 hour ago, Stallion said:

Several areas of federal law completely preempt a governor's ability to set standards for international or even interstate travel including the Commerce Clause,  Martime law and even to an extent immigration and naturalization clauses. Your cruise ticket, which I posted in another thread,  clearly recognizes that state law is almost completely preempted by federal law except for a few irrelevant exceptions

I agree, and I’m not arguing that vaccinations shouldn’t be required. But is there currently  a federal law that allows cruise lines operating out of US ports to require vaccinations? I don’t think so. 
 

And if such a federal directive is issued, there is likely to be a legal challenge over discrimination. 

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14 minutes ago, knight2096 said:

Yeah I'm thinking the same thing they will probably deny it, but it would be nice if it worked. Either way It is nice to see the Cruise lines finally pushing back some. Maybe something will actually get done now.

I think that is when the CDC caves. When they feel the public is really pushing for cruising to restart and they are worried they start to look like the bad guys to more than just cruise critic members. 

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 I will vaccinate (not only in order to cruise), but I wonder why CDC is so different from other countries agencies. For example TUI Mein Schiff 2 (German market) is sailing around Canaries as we speak. They do all tests numerous times, but ship is sailing!

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15 minutes ago, giustot said:

I agree, and I’m not arguing that vaccinations shouldn’t be required. But is there currently  a federal law that allows cruise lines operating out of US ports to require vaccinations? I don’t think so. 
 

And if such a federal directive is issued, there is likely to be a legal challenge over discrimination. 

 

Private companies can require whatever they want I believe...

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13 minutes ago, giustot said:

I agree, and I’m not arguing that vaccinations shouldn’t be required. But is there currently  a federal law that allows cruise lines operating out of US ports to require vaccinations? I don’t think so. 
 

And if such a federal directive is issued, there is likely to be a legal challenge over discrimination. 

Every country has requirements for entry into the country. Yellow Fever is a common example of a required vaccination in some countries. I'm not sure if there are any required vaccinations for mere travel  but I did find that the United States has required vaccinations for immigration. (see attached).  I believe certain Caribbean countries have issued  at least temporary vaccination requirements as well. 

 

 https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/laws-regs/vaccination-immigration/revised-vaccination-immigration-faq.html#whatvaccines

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lol @ all of the people super-excited by this update. Like the CDC will read it and think "vaccines!?" Why didn't we think of that? 

  

1 hour ago, iamaqt2 said:

CDC has issued new guidance today to the cruise lines, and vaccines will not be mandatory.  This is very disappointing IMO, and I hope the cruise lines will still require them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/05/business/cruise-lines-guidance.html

 

This will be ignored. 

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35 minutes ago, asalligo said:

I am not sure the CDC has any plans to ever say yes. I think they intend to block cruising as long as they can. Just last week I saw a news article that started with the comment, "The cruise industry has long flouted employment and tax laws by flagging out of country". People like the director of the CDC have no love for the cruise industry. 

Nothing to do with that. One COVID cruise and it would make Biden and Faucci look bad for allowing it. So it won’t happen. Because COVID will appear on a fully vaccinated cruise. 

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2 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

CDC has issued new guidance today to the cruise lines, and vaccines will not be mandatory.  This is very disappointing IMO, and I hope the cruise lines will still require them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/05/business/cruise-lines-guidance.html

This did not come out today. That was the guidance from last week.

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1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

So face coverings not required when:

1. In your own cabin

2. Eating and drinking

3. Outdoors

 

I don't know about you, but that accounts for about 99% of my time on board, so no masks it is! LOL

 

But then I'll have a mask between me and that fresh beautiful hallway air!

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3 hours ago, Petoonya said:

I don't know about that. My white CDC card shows that I received Moderna. Is it not true that yours does as well? Just a guess but I think your state or whatever governing body keeps a record of vaccines, would also record which vaccine you received.

Mine too.  The name, the lot numbers and the dates and time rcvd.  The administering body (mine was through a hospital system) keeps records.

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50 minutes ago, Tatka said:

 

Private companies can require whatever they want I believe...

I don’t think that is true. Private companies must obey the laws where they operate. 
 

The Florida governor’s order specifically bans private businesses from requiring proof of vaccinations. I’m not saying I agree. But that’s what it says. 

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12 minutes ago, giustot said:

I don’t think that is true. Private companies must obey the laws where they operate. 
 

The Florida governor’s order specifically bans private businesses from requiring proof of vaccinations. I’m not saying I agree. But that’s what it says. 

They tried that in Texas when the Governor cut back the mask rules. They found a lot of private companies didn't care. To get in the door they required people to wear mask

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6 hours ago, molly361 said:

That stinks!!  And they are still going to test you upon boarding even with 100% vaccinated

Yes they will. Before embarkation and prior to  disembarkation paid for by the cruise line. With an antigen test.

https://issuu.com/hochmania/docs/nclh__sailsafe_health___safety_protocols_final_for

 

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