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1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

Sorry folks for having to rehash this for the umteenth time but here goes..........

 

Those people who refuse to wear a mask must have been protected by folks who WERE wearing masks. Universal masking is effective for source control, not nearly as effective for protection.

 

You wearing a mask did not protect you very well as you seem to feel it should have. As I have already said, masking is effective for source control. You needed to DISTANCE yourself from others and stay FAR FAR away from anyone not wearing a mask or not wearing their mask PROPERLY. You also should have been keeping your hands away from your face. That is the way to have a better chance to not contract this virus. Everyone should be following these guidelines.

And these people that are whining about never getting a vaccine, are the same people that will be protected because WE got the vaccine.  I can hear them now saying, "see, I didn't get a vaccine, and I never got sick", because they were protected by the people around them that were vaccinated.  But they would never admit that.  Such a bunch of whiners.  Maybe some people should stop thinking about themselves, and do something that may help someone else. No vaccine, no cruise.  That's their choice.  It won't be forever, hopefully, in the mean time,  they should just get over it, and move on.

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1 hour ago, Gabriele73 said:

 

I´m from Germany. We have two cruise lines sailing right now (Tui Cruises and AIDA). They are sailing around/at/in (sorry, don´t know the right wording) Canary Isles.

 

Tui Cruises has created a special safety-package (mandatory testing before the cruise, flying in on special flights with only cruise-passangers...) and it works really well.

 

If someone is tested positive during their time on board, that person plus all contact-persons will be brought to Gran Canaria for further testing, medical treatment and quarantine for the contact-persons (all covered by TUI Cruises, it comes with your cruise-package).

 

They had several cruises during the last few months and it is working really well.

They only had (as far as I know) two incidents (on two different cruises) during that time.

 

 

Thank you. So much for the "it'll only take one sick person to stop the whole cruise" BS that's been littered about on this website like so much cow dung. 🤣

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3 hours ago, hamrag said:

 

🖐️ 🖐️

Damn. I was hoping the polite wave would be enough... seems the drama keeps them coming back for more. So here I am stirring that pot.


im still trying to figure out where I can go and who I can leave my kids with! Grandparents are all vaccinated, so just need to figure it out.

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I think some are missing the point.  NCL did not say it wasn't safe for kids to cruise.  What they are saying is in order to cruise...all passengers must be vaccinated. 

 

So if someone can't be vaccinated then at this time you can't cruise.  Whether is be a child or an adult.  Not vaccinated not stepping foot on the cruise.

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5 hours ago, Gabriele73 said:


No one wants to be on a ship with a sniffing, coughing person who may spread a disease.

Ist does not matter if it is a kid or an adult. 

Adults are usually more mindful of containing their germs such as coughing into their elbow, not putting their fingers in their nose or mouth than touch all sort of surfaces such as hand railings; you get the idea.

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I really do not understand all the debate on this topic. When evaluated objectively, the possibility of a required vaccination will be with us for some time and we should just accept it and adapt where necessary or find alternative vacations. No one view has a power monopoly to decide this for the whole world  ... not any passenger (or group of passengers), an individual country and most certainly not the view of a single Governor. 


We are already seeing this play out. Look at Greece and Croatia. They are requiring all visitors (by land, air or sea) to show proof of vaccination to enter (limited exception for people with confirmed and documented COVID cases within the past 90 days). I believe there is still a process for non vaccinated folks to enter but they are subject to strict entry quarantine protocols that are not possible for a visiting cruise. They couldn’t care less what NCL, the CDC or any State has to say ... they have made their decision. 
 

The reason why I think we’ll see this more and more around the world is the disconnect between current COVID protocols and the transient nature of cruises specifically. Take Barbados for example. Look at their current protocols ... neg PCR test 72 hrs prior to arrival, immediate quarantine upon arrival in hotel room for another 48hrs followed by another hotel-administered test (which takes up to 48hrs to process). After that second test you are free to use resort facilities and leave your room. So for a 7 day vacation ... you actually to need to plan and budget for a 11 day trip. Does anyone really think they would accept non vaccinated passengers with just a neg test that could have been given 5 days before arrival? Doubtful. It seems reasonable that the accommodation for cruises (which we can all agree everyone wants) will be required vaccination. Is there still a risk? For sure. Would it be better for these ports than either prohibiting cruises or allowing unvaccinated people on land? For sure

 

Cruise lines are going to be between a rock and a hard place and are going to have to adjust their protocols to the highest bar set by a port on each itinerary. Looking at the NCL test cruises, the Greece cruises make sense (country requirement). The interesting thing to me is requiring vaccines in the Caribbean... to my knowledge none of these countries have updated their entry protocols to contemplate vaccinations (they still talk about testing and quarantine). I wonder if they are testing the efficacy and effectiveness of vaccines on these cruises to gather data and present it to the CDC to see if they can get the CSO lifted or amended on the requirement of vaccines.

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Cruise lines already get a ton of bad press. Think about the Costa Concordia accident and the outbreak on Diamond Princess. Add to that all the people who say that ships are breeding grounds for norovirus. Those of us who cruise enough know that these instances are rarities, but you never read articles written about how relaxing it is to watch the world go by on deck or unpack once but visit multiple countries. Days spent making memories, meeting new friends, eating and drinking in a variety of restaurants... NCL is the weakest of the big three lines, lowest stock and most vulnerable. They simply cannot afford any kind of bad press. Having 100% vaccinated cruises lowers the risk of an outbreak. The ships themselves would likely be just fine even with kids, but when you add the risk of visiting multiple foreign countries, that added safety is needed. As many have already said, NCL wants to sail as soon as possible. Last year they said that they could go 18 months without sailing. That brings them to next September. Obviously they need to get the ball rolling. This is definitely not a permanent policy, but I applaud NCL for having the guts to fight the CDC and make sure that the sailings are as safe as possible. 

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1 hour ago, hamrag said:

 

Obviously you've never been on a cruise if you truly believe that!

Over 40 and counting once cruising starts up again. Can't wait.

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On 4/5/2021 at 6:45 PM, Shidah said:

A cruise without kids is my dream come true.  We just booked in December due to our September Alaska cruise being cancelled, but if the CDC approves NCL’s plan, we would gladly move it up just to enjoy an adult only cruise.  Keeping my fingers crossed!

Me too.....can't wait!! 

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2 hours ago, AKR2011 said:

Cruise lines already get a ton of bad press. Think about the Costa Concordia accident and the outbreak on Diamond Princess. Add to that all the people who say that ships are breeding grounds for norovirus. Those of us who cruise enough know that these instances are rarities, but you never read articles written about how relaxing it is to watch the world go by on deck or unpack once but visit multiple countries. Days spent making memories, meeting new friends, eating and drinking in a variety of restaurants... NCL is the weakest of the big three lines, lowest stock and most vulnerable. They simply cannot afford any kind of bad press. Having 100% vaccinated cruises lowers the risk of an outbreak. The ships themselves would likely be just fine even with kids, but when you add the risk of visiting multiple foreign countries, that added safety is needed. As many have already said, NCL wants to sail as soon as possible. Last year they said that they could go 18 months without sailing. That brings them to next September. Obviously they need to get the ball rolling. This is definitely not a permanent policy, but I applaud NCL for having the guts to fight the CDC and make sure that the sailings are as safe as possible. 

Excellent post. I completely agree. 

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15 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

If that is the case, then there are far more criteria to use than that. Remember this is all covid related......So, lets take the scientific approach and be the most conservative as possible.

 

Have you ever had to talk to and convince someone who is really hard to deal with or reason with? You figure out what to say that will be most appealing to that person even if it’s not the most reasonable argument. All you care about is to convince that person in order to get your way. 
 

Well, in this case, that “person” is the CDC, and the thing that may be most appealing to them right now is full vaccination. Of course, you can attempt to reason with the CDC with other arguments that you may consider to be more intelligent, objective, conservative, or scientific, but you may not get the results that you’re looking for.
 

Sometimes it’s better to say what that person wants to hear even if you don’t agree with it 100% if that means that you will get what you want. 

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1 minute ago, david_sobe said:

Did anyone really believe the first sailing was going to be from Miami, with 4000 passengers, and going for 7 nights? 

No but I though it would be the pride of America at full sailing due to the ability to have the American staff all vaccinated? How long can they afford to do baby steps for? Or the major 3 groups NCL is probably worst off financially.

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One of the few bright points of this last year has been some internet discussions which I have provided my with some great entertainment. Vaccines (and related) are a particular cause of these discussions.

 

I have a picture of my son, when he was a year or so old. I don’t recall what had happened, but he is mid tantrum, literally stamping his feet on the floor whilst crying.

 

I often think of that picture whilst reading these discussions. 🙂

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24 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

One of the few bright points of this last year has been some internet discussions which I have provided my with some great entertainment. Vaccines (and related) are a particular cause of these discussions.

 

I have a picture of my son, when he was a year or so old. I don’t recall what had happened, but he is mid tantrum, literally stamping his feet on the floor whilst crying.

 

I often think of that picture whilst reading these discussions. 🙂

Angry Kid GIFs | Tenor

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Beardface said:

 

A - The CDC is also saying that they are not permitting gangways to be used more than once every 12 hours, and not allowing different ships to use the same gangway.  That means, ship comes to port, fully disembarks, then waits 12 hours, and then embarks everyone.  This is a non-starter for the industry, and something that has already been proven to be unnecessary due to overseas cruising.

 

B - Well yeah, that's the point.  The CDC isn't willing to play ball here.  Oh sure, they updated the policy last week, but that was little more than inserting an additional requirement that the industry needs to follow before sailing without coming down on the hard November 1st return to sail date.  This kind of policy is NCL calling the CDC's bluff and saying 'fine, you want to be like that, we'll go the extra step, require everyone to have their vaccines and yet still require the social distancing that you yourselves say is no longer necessary when vaccinated people gather just to be extra safe.  Now either let us sail, or we take legal action.'

 

And the thing is, at least up front, the industry needs to go over the top like this because they have been deemed the scapegoats of COVID in the US from the media and at least the government in 2020.  They are being held to a much higher standard than other similar industries that, when you actually compare policies, makes absolutely no sense.  Remember that gangway policy they are putting on the cruise industry?  They have no such policy for airlines, where they are used far more frequently, and probably by more people per day than the ones at cruise ports.  The cruise industry needs to go over the top because there is no way for them to get good PR from coming back, it can only go bad.  Any hiccup will be magnified 1000% until this disease is truly well behind us.

Extremely well stated.

 

I have read quite a few threads on CC (here and over at Royal and Carnival) essentially scolding the cruise lines for not following the "reasonable, ahem" demands of the CDC. And yet, I wonder if those making that claim are even aware of how ridiculous some of those demands are. 12 hours between embarkations? You've got to be kidding me?! Exactly as you stated, no such demand is made of the airlines. I guess it's because they're considered essential and cruising isn't, but so what? If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

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2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Extremely well stated.

 

I have read quite a few threads on CC (here and over at Royal and Carnival) essentially scolding the cruise lines for not following the "reasonable, ahem" demands of the CDC. And yet, I wonder if those making that claim are even aware of how ridiculous some of those demands are. 12 hours between embarkations? You've got to be kidding me?! Exactly as you stated, no such demand is made of the airlines. I guess it's because they're considered essential and cruising isn't, but so what? If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

The part of this that blows my mind the most is that... I mean the cruise lines ARE following the guidelines that were originally laid out by the CDC, and are doing so right now with overseas cruising.  And some (P&O, NCL, for example with the vaccine requirement) are actually either actively operating or are proposing to operate at a much stricter set of rules than the CDC had outlined.

 

And yet the CDC hasn't budged.  There is no ongoing dialogue between the industry and the CDC.  The CDC makes these proclamations and then effectively takes the phone off the hook until municipalities start putting some political pressure on, only for them to drop another bread crumb or two and then disappear.

 

MSC has been sailing since August.  Don't tell me that there isn't a tried and true method of cruising safely right now.  The world we live in right now, with regards to this virus, is completely and utterly different than the one that existed when these guidelines were introduced 10 months ago, and its different for the better.  But the CDC doesn't care.  Hell, if you only paid attention to the Return To Sail guidelines and their periodic updates, you'd only think the situation with the virus was progressively getting worse, despite essentially every metric out there saying the exact opposite.

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8 minutes ago, Beardface said:

The part of this that blows my mind the most is that... I mean the cruise lines ARE following the guidelines that were originally laid out by the CDC, and are doing so right now with overseas cruising.  And some (P&O, NCL, for example with the vaccine requirement) are actually either actively operating or are proposing to operate at a much stricter set of rules than the CDC had outlined.

 

And yet the CDC hasn't budged.  There is no ongoing dialogue between the industry and the CDC.  The CDC makes these proclamations and then effectively takes the phone off the hook until municipalities start putting some political pressure on, only for them to drop another bread crumb or two and then disappear.

 

MSC has been sailing since August.  Don't tell me that there isn't a tried and true method of cruising safely right now.  The world we live in right now, with regards to this virus, is completely and utterly different than the one that existed when these guidelines were introduced 10 months ago, and its different for the better.  But the CDC doesn't care.  Hell, if you only paid attention to the Return To Sail guidelines and their periodic updates, you'd only think the situation with the virus was progressively getting worse, despite essentially every metric out there saying the exact opposite.

Again, very well stated!!

It's nigh on ludicrous. Once you get out of the weeds and look at the big picture, you have the CDC saying "cruising isn't safe, you have to do this, this and this." Industry responds by saying "we've had 400,000 passengers sail with no outbreaks, and here's all of the things we're doing to ensure cruising is safe, following all of the guidelines." The CDC responds with a toxic combination of "not good enough" and "here are more guidelines you now have to follow." Combo of government bureaucracy and goalpost moving. Unbelievable. What an embarrassment, and I pay for this as a taxpayer. Wow.

Glad the cruise lines are saying "F you," and moving out. Good for them.

 

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4 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Again, very well stated!!

It's nigh on ludicrous. Once you get out of the weeds and look at the big picture, you have the CDC saying "cruising isn't safe, you have to do this, this and this." Industry responds by saying "we've had 400,000 passengers sail with no outbreaks, and here's all of the things we're doing to ensure cruising is safe, following all of the guidelines." The CDC responds with a toxic combination of "not good enough" and "here are more guidelines you now have to follow." Combo of government bureaucracy and goalpost moving. Unbelievable. What an embarrassment, and I pay for this as a taxpayer. Wow.

Glad the cruise lines are saying "F you," and moving out. Good for them.

 

It really is that nuts.

 

So this is why I applaud this announcement from NCL.  Not because they are barring kids or anyone without a vaccine (though, in general, I do applaud the vaccine requirement) but because this is them throwing down the gantlet and calling the CDC's bluff.  If the CDC still isn't willing to play ball after this, you already have the State of Florida and its main port cities ready to sue the hell out of them to force their hand.

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4 minutes ago, electro said:

It is not about age groups, it is about unvaccinated. If your are 50 and not vaccinated, you can't cruise, if you are 30 and not vaccinated, you can't cruise, if you are 16 and can't be vaccinated, you can't cruise.

Bingo!

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5 minutes ago, Beardface said:

It really is that nuts.

 

So this is why I applaud this announcement from NCL.  Not because they are barring kids or anyone without a vaccine (though, in general, I do applaud the vaccine requirement) but because this is them throwing down the gantlet and calling the CDC's bluff.  If the CDC still isn't willing to play ball after this, you already have the State of Florida and its main port cities ready to sue the hell out of them to force their hand.

"force their hand." Speaking of hands, I wish I could shake yours. We're on the same wavelength here.

The effect of NCL's announcement coupled with even holdout Carnival threatening to leave tells me we've reached a tipping point. I laud the CDC for wanting to protect the public, and I mean that. But it's not being consistent, or fair, and I think the cruise lines are just fed up. And again, I can't blame them for being fed up. In the words of my Scottish-American friend's late mother from Aberdeen, "it's gone beyond a joke."

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1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

"force their hand." Speaking of hands, I wish I could shake yours. We're on the same wavelength here.

The effect of NCL's announcement coupled with even holdout Carnival threatening to leave tells me we've reached a tipping point. I laud the CDC for wanting to protect the public, and I mean that. But it's not being consistent, or fair, and I think the cruise lines are just fed up. And again, I can't blame them for being fed up. In the words of my Scottish-American friend's late mother from Aberdeen, "it's gone beyond a joke."

And the thing is, early on I completely supported the decision to shut everything down.  I was one of the most ardent supporters of social distancing to protect yourself and your loved ones.

 

But there has to be an end game to this.  The way we've been living for the past 12 months cannot continue forever.  We were told, just wait til the numbers go down and we'll relax restrictions, but were also reminded that the vaccine was the true end game.

 

Well, the vaccine is here.  The rollout, at least in the US, is rapid and expanding quickly with some states (like my own NC) already making it eligible to literally everyone over the age of 18 as of this morning.  The end game for COVID is approaching quickly, and yet the tone from the CDC seems to keep shifting away from an end game to ways to keep themselves relevant for a longer period of time.  And in no other place is this more apparent than their treatment of the cruise industry.

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4 minutes ago, Beardface said:

And the thing is, early on I completely supported the decision to shut everything down.  I was one of the most ardent supporters of social distancing to protect yourself and your loved ones.

 

But there has to be an end game to this.  The way we've been living for the past 12 months cannot continue forever.  We were told, just wait til the numbers go down and we'll relax restrictions, but were also reminded that the vaccine was the true end game.

 

Well, the vaccine is here.  The rollout, at least in the US, is rapid and expanding quickly with some states (like my own NC) already making it eligible to literally everyone over the age of 18 as of this morning.  The end game for COVID is approaching quickly, and yet the tone from the CDC seems to keep shifting away from an end game to ways to keep themselves relevant for a longer period of time.  And in no other place is this more apparent than their treatment of the cruise industry.

Same here. Like I think most Americans, I also supported the admittedly draconian lockdowns because, in the beginning, there was no knowing how serious and deadly Covid-19 would be and how long the pandemic would last. But as you say, we were told to be patient and that if we did the right things, and especially when there was a vaccine, we could ease the restrictions. Well, the numbers are, broadly speaking, coming down (yes, there are occasional spikes but that's to be expected), and while there are also variants, the current vaccines seem to work on those, too. And many states are easing restrictions, just as promised. No argument there. So again, why is the cruise industry IN THE US being singled out? I guess my irritation is exacerbated by the number of people in this very forum who are still drinking the Kool-Aid of "it's still not safe yet, just wait a little longer," etc....

I wish everyone who still supports the ban on US cruising had to lose money every time a small business in Florida, Texas, Louisiana, New Jersey, New York or California had to let somebody go because there's no cruising happening from any of their ports. This has gone on long enough and it needs to end today. TODAY.

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Which country, by far, provides the most cruise passengers.? I would think the USA.  And I have met so many people from other countries who fly to America for a couple of week visit that is combined with a cruise.  The idea that the cruise companies will so easily just move all of their ships somewhere else is laughable.  I want things back to pre-pandemic status as much as anyone.  I have lost 3 once-in-a-lifetime type cruises that will never be taken, but it is out of our control.  We were originally told it would probably be over in 12 to 18 months, so I am expecting cruising, and other things, to be back on track by this fall.  Exactly where are all of the port facilities and infrastructure available to just move all of these ships?  How many of you have driven on the narrow and crowded road from St Marten airport to the cruise pier?  Now, imagine a LOT of arriving flight passengers doing it and also having to return there to get their flights home?  Kind of crowded and ships are sailing at maybe 60% capacity.

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