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No more cruises with NCL. Mandatory Vaccines?


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1 hour ago, Diver2014 said:

 

Never say never. 

Or he could get himself banned off NCL for life with a nice little phone call and draw a line under them and move on with his life.

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On 4/6/2021 at 7:18 AM, BIG POOCH said:

With the reports of them requiring vaccinations, we will never be cruising on NCL again.  Hope they realize just how much this is going to hurt their business even more than it already has been.

It will be the same on all cruise lines. And, we are happy that there are no unvaccinated people on the ship. If you are not vaccinated, you won’t be on NCL, not your choice. 

Edited by BirdTravels
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36 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Correction...if you believe the survey results,  "WE have a very worrying situation" because we are all in (this world) together.

 

If you believe that a vaccination is required to reach herd immunity, than this chart should frighten you to the core. Less than 70% world wide are willing to get the vaccination and this chart excludes some of the worlds most dense populations. 

 

 

IF that graph is accurate, we are all doomed!!!! LOL.

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On 4/6/2021 at 6:18 AM, BIG POOCH said:

With the reports of them requiring vaccinations, we will never be cruising on NCL again.  Hope they realize just how much this is going to hurt their business even more than it already has been.

Why do you say that?   Because YOU don't want to get vaccinated?  I've been a faithful Princess cruiser (34 cruises in) but really want to get back to cruising.  I've never cruised on NCL but plan to BECAUSE of the vaccination requirement.  Seems like cruises will have less chance of getting canceled in the near term. 

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On 4/6/2021 at 8:18 AM, BIG POOCH said:

With the reports of them requiring vaccinations, we will never be cruising on NCL again.  Hope they realize just how much this is going to hurt their business even more than it already has been.

You are certainly not alone in your choice not to take a covid vaccine. Although I can certainly understand the cruise lines doing whatever they're told to get things going again, I cannot understand how it can be legally allowed for anyone to mandate a medical treatment which has been put through under emergency use authorization...the estimated completion dates for collection of data for the trials of these drugs are way down the road. The ethics of same is an important topic as well.....or one would hope that it should be.

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3 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

You are certainly not alone in your choice not to take a covid vaccine. Although I can certainly understand the cruise lines doing whatever they're told to get things going again, I cannot understand how it can be legally allowed for anyone to mandate a medical treatment which has been put through under emergency use authorization...the estimated completion dates for collection of data for the trials of these drugs are way down the road. The ethics of same is an important topic as well.....or one would hope that it should be.

No one is mandating anything. Each adult over the age 16 is free to make their own choice, but no adult is free from the consequences of the choice they make. And this is nothing new ... proof of vaccination for travel have existed for a very long time. Ask anyone traveling from a country with elevated risk of yellow fever or polio ... many countries require visitors from those countries (by land, sea or air) to provide proof of vaccination before entry. Most of us have never had to deal with this because the successful use of vaccines in our countries in the past have rendered us low risk countries. 
 

The EUA certainly adds a wrinkle and I respect everyone’s right to weigh the decision for themselves. I am not eligible yet, but I’ve weighed all the pros and cons, read all the unbiased research I could get my hands on and have decided when eligible I will get the vaccine. But the whole time I realized that if I did not get the vaccine I would likely be limited in my travel options for probably quite a while and I accepted that.

 

I think we can all agree that more data/details that will come is always a welcome thing. What I think is key right now to how travel protocols will evolve will really depend on the efficiency of the vaccinations in preventing asymptomatic spread. The other month we heard very positive results out of the Israel study. Should those results be duplicated and validated I think you’ll see most countries  move to vaccination requirements (like Greece and Croatia already have). Even in the Caribbean many of the islands have said publicly they are exploring similar requirements ... for a few years on a temporary basis. 
 

On the other hand, if the vaccines are not really that effective to prevent asymptomatic spread then some sort of “vaccination or proof of negative test” protocol would make more sense.

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10 minutes ago, Navis said:

No one is mandating anything. Each adult over the age 16 is free to make their own choice, but no adult is free from the consequences of the choice they make. And this is nothing new ... proof of vaccination for travel have existed for a very long time. Ask anyone traveling from a country with elevated risk of yellow fever or polio ... many countries require visitors from those countries (by land, sea or air) to provide proof of vaccination before entry. Most of us have never had to deal with this because the successful use of vaccines in our countries in the past have rendered us low risk countries. 
 

The EUA certainly adds a wrinkle and I respect everyone’s right to weigh the decision for themselves. I am not eligible yet, but I’ve weighed all the pros and cons, read all the unbiased research I could get my hands on and have decided when eligible I will get the vaccine. But the whole time I realized that if I did not get the vaccine I would likely be limited in my travel options for probably quite a while and I accepted that.

 

I think we can all agree that more data/details that will come is always a welcome thing. What I think is key right now to how travel protocols will evolve will really depend on the efficiency of the vaccinations in preventing asymptomatic spread. The other month we heard very positive results out of the Israel study. Should those results be duplicated and validated I think you’ll see most countries  move to vaccination requirements (like Greece and Croatia already have). Even in the Caribbean many of the islands have said publicly they are exploring similar requirements ... for a few years on a temporary basis. 
 

On the other hand, if the vaccines are not really that effective to prevent asymptomatic spread then some sort of “vaccination or proof of negative test” protocol would make more sense.

The cruise lines that are starting with vaccination requirements are still also requiring testing as part of their protocols.

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1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

The cruise lines that are starting with vaccination requirements are still also requiring testing as part of their protocols.

Sorry for the confusion. I just meant as the vaccine data rolls in and the true efficacy of vaccination becomes clearer then countries will be in a better position to decide what the protocols will be for cruise visitors (it really won’t be the cruise lines that make this decision ... it will be each port and embarkation/disembarkation location). At that point, maybe the non vaccinated will have an option to cruise with just testing. But for these initial test cruises ... vaccination and testing makes total sense as it puts the cruise lines in the best position to prove to these countries that cruising can be done safely. 
 

Like many on here, I am also hopeful that the world we will see in the fall is very different than the one we see now and that the protocols that then go into place will look different. 

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6 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 


You have a very worrying situation

image.png.448617f30001e85dbd095fc223b8c6fc.png

 

Not sure if this survey only included those who were yet to be vaccinated or what but the overall percent of people in the United States that either have gotten the vaccine or are wanting to get the vaccine is much higher than 46.6%.

 

Consider the fact that about 1/3 of the total US population already has received at least 1 dose of the vaccine. That's roughly 40% of the total adult population.

 

About 62% in the United States either have received or will get the vaccine as soon as it's available to them. 17% fall into the "wait and see" category and only 20% are against getting the vaccine.

Untitled.png

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10 hours ago, Navis said:

No one is mandating anything. Each adult over the age 16 is free to make their own choice, but no adult is free from the consequences of the choice they make. And this is nothing new ... proof of vaccination for travel have existed for a very long time. Ask anyone traveling from a country with elevated risk of yellow fever or polio ... many countries require visitors from those countries (by land, sea or air) to provide proof of vaccination before entry. Most of us have never had to deal with this because the successful use of vaccines in our countries in the past have rendered us low risk countries. 
 

The EUA certainly adds a wrinkle and I respect everyone’s right to weigh the decision for themselves. I am not eligible yet, but I’ve weighed all the pros and cons, read all the unbiased research I could get my hands on and have decided when eligible I will get the vaccine. But the whole time I realized that if I did not get the vaccine I would likely be limited in my travel options for probably quite a while and I accepted that.

 

I think we can all agree that more data/details that will come is always a welcome thing. What I think is key right now to how travel protocols will evolve will really depend on the efficiency of the vaccinations in preventing asymptomatic spread. The other month we heard very positive results out of the Israel study. Should those results be duplicated and validated I think you’ll see most countries  move to vaccination requirements (like Greece and Croatia already have). Even in the Caribbean many of the islands have said publicly they are exploring similar requirements ... for a few years on a temporary basis. 
 

On the other hand, if the vaccines are not really that effective to prevent asymptomatic spread then some sort of “vaccination or proof of negative test” protocol would make more sense.j

 

I am very aware of certain vaccines being required for travel to certain parts of the world and why that is so.

 

The goal here is literally to vaccinate the world, children included, with vaccines for which not enough is known about. That makes sense to some and doesn't make sense to others.

 

Not sure how you can say 'No one is mandating anything'. Particularly interesting to me that you bring up Israel, now the land of 'green pass'.

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16 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 


You have a very worrying situation

image.png.448617f30001e85dbd095fc223b8c6fc.png

Strange survey as it seems to be contrary to what we're currently seeing in the US and is dramatically different than any previous reports.  

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On 4/6/2021 at 7:18 AM, BIG POOCH said:

With the reports of them requiring vaccinations, we will never be cruising on NCL again.  Hope they realize just how much this is going to hurt their business even more than it already has been.

Not gonna read thru this thread and the debate.  If you don't get a vaccine, cruising will not be the only thing you can no longer enjoy.  Your choice.  And I'm glad.

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15 hours ago, winterbliss said:

You are certainly not alone in your choice not to take a covid vaccine. Although I can certainly understand the cruise lines doing whatever they're told to get things going again, I cannot understand how it can be legally allowed for anyone to mandate a medical treatment which has been put through under emergency use authorization...the estimated completion dates for collection of data for the trials of these drugs are way down the road. The ethics of same is an important topic as well.....or one would hope that it should be.

You have two choices..... Get a vaccine and be allowed to sail on NCL and other cruise lines or don't get a vaccine and don't go on a cruise. Nobody is making you get the vaccine or go on a cruise. They are a private company and can and will do whatever they feel is best for them, their crew and passengers. Personally I could care less if you get one or not. However I won't go on a cruise with unvaccinated people for the next few years. I'm lucky enough to have a wife who is a scientist, I know many of her friends who are scientist and chemist. I know way to much about the vaccines, I've known the woman who developed the Pfizer vaccine for 35 years

Edited by Laszlo
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16 hours ago, ExploringTheGlobe said:

Why do you say that?   Because YOU don't want to get vaccinated?  I've been a faithful Princess cruiser (34 cruises in) but really want to get back to cruising.  I've never cruised on NCL but plan to BECAUSE of the vaccination requirement.  Seems like cruises will have less chance of getting canceled in the near term. 

Well said

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16 hours ago, ExploringTheGlobe said:

Why do you say that?   Because YOU don't want to get vaccinated?  I've been a faithful Princess cruiser (34 cruises in) but really want to get back to cruising.  I've never cruised on NCL but plan to BECAUSE of the vaccination requirement.  Seems like cruises will have less chance of getting canceled in the near term. 

I don't think you'll have to cruise NCL as Princess and the others will follow .

You can go with Norwegian if you really want to . 😉

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Why do they insist on being fully vaccinated? It should be travelers must have Covid immunity.  That could occur via being vaccinated or previously having COVID and now having natural immunity.  The Cruise lines are eliminating 10-20 percent of the customer base.  

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37 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

You have two choices..... Get a vaccine and be allowed to sail on NCL and other cruise lines or don't get a vaccine and don't go on a cruise. Nobody is making you get the vaccine or go on a cruise. They are a private company and can and will do whatever they feel is best for them, their crew and passengers. Personally I could care less if you get one or not. However I won't go on a cruise with unvaccinated people for the next few years. I'm lucky enough to have a wife who is a scientist, I know many of her friends who are scientist and chemist. I know way to much about the vaccines, I've known the woman who developed the Pfizer vaccine for 35 years

I'm not ignorant when it comes to pharmaceuticals. Worked as RN for 32 years. Have seen alot....good and bad. 

 

I believe in questioning the legalities and ethics of requiring one to take a drug that has EUA only before said person can partake in a certain activity.

 

All of those who have been through having covid could very well be naturally protected. Why the heck should they be required to take a vaccine? There are more questions than answers.

 

And furthermore, with all due respect to anyone affected by covid in any way, shape or form, to focus on one crisis while so much is falling by the wayside and collateral damage continues is ridiculous. Clearly, we all believe what we believe at this point. Whether we can get on a cruise ship will probably become rather unimportant in the long run.

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On 4/6/2021 at 8:38 AM, newbe dave said:

Really? Think a little bit.  This is a change (requiring vaccinated passengers) that will be temporary only for the amount of time needed to start cruising again. And given that NCL has been 100% shut down, how can a temporary decision to start cruising "hurt their business even more"? What is "even more" than completely shut down. 

 

Everyone needs to please relax and think. Private businesses are doing anything they can to generate some type of revenue. The minute they can go back to business as it use to be, they will. 

Not so worried that NCL will always CYA, but that the CDC will do the same to the ultimate degree. Right now, plans are for you to be both vaccinated and tested right before you get onboard. Add to that - testing to get on the plane, then to get off the plane in foreign nations, and then possibly tested at every port. At $100 to $200 per person that makes international cruises to five or more ports VERY expensive and gives you really sore arms. Vaccinations are meaningless under these circumstances, and one wonders why we had to get them in the first place, especially if we already had the virus and recovered.

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9 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

I'm not ignorant when it comes to pharmaceuticals. Worked as RN for 32 years. Have seen alot....good and bad. 

 

I believe in questioning the legalities and ethics of requiring one to take a drug that has EUA only before said person can partake in a certain activity.

 

All of those who have been through having covid could very well be naturally protected. Why the heck should they be required to take a vaccine? There are more questions than answers.

 

And furthermore, with all due respect to anyone affected by covid in any way, shape or form, to focus on one crisis while so much is falling by the wayside and collateral damage continues is ridiculous. Clearly, we all believe what we believe at this point. Whether we can get on a cruise ship will probably become rather unimportant in the long run.

As many have said, no one if forcing anyone to do anything ... the choice is up to each of us. But none of us are free from the consequences of the decisions we make.

 

Some of what you say however is already being taken into consideration. About recovered COVID patients for example, in the countries that are requiring vaccines, they exempt anyone who has fully recovered within the last 90 days of the date of their departure.  Why is that, you might ask? Because of the actual detail in these reports and studies rather than just the headlines (none of which are as key catching as “6 month immunity with vaccination.”  
 

Actually read the whole studies across the world and see that they actually say ... the immune response generated by the vaccine is far to superior and has a lower decay rate than natural immunity. Tests run on blood samples of people with natural immunity and vaccine immunity (with roughly the same date of infection/injection) show that natural immunity wanes much faster and is much more narrow than the mRNA vaccines.

 

Here’s the other kicker ... studies have shown that natural immunity is also effected significantly with the introduction of variant strains! Look at the studies on the impact the vaccines on the UK and South African variant (haven’t seen any on the Brazilian variant yet). With respect to vaccines, they are for sure less effective (roughly 80% effective rather than 94%), but they still work at preventing all death and serious disease and at 80% are enough to maintain herd immunity (if and when reached).  Natural immunity has proven not to work that way ... they estimate at best 50% against variants and unknown impact on deaths and hospitalizations (they don’t have the data on prior infections yet).  So, unless you get reinfected with the same variant you are again rolling the dice.
 

As I mentioned in another thread I think, I went back and forth on whether I should get vaccinated ... I’m in my 40s and thankfully in good health so i’m it even eligible yet, but I have decided I will for many reasons, all of which my primary care physician brought to my attention:

 

1) mRNA vaccines are not really new ... they have been in development for over a decade now. They only difference here is the message. (The analogy he gave me was to think of it as the industry has been working on a proven safe envelope for years .. they are only modifying the paper inside the envelope for COVID). He emphasized to me that these are not in any way, shape or form, gene editing

 

2) mRNA is a fundamental aspect of human existence as our cells receive literally billions of them a day

 

3) The risk of actual infection from an mRNA vaccine is non existent while the risk for other forms of virus based vaccines is not high but it is not zero either

 

4) mRNA vaccines promote broad-based immunity that has shown to so far provide more than adequate protection against current variants and that such protection is far superior to strain specific natural immunity.

 

5) it is true that any possible long term side effects of mRNA vaccines remain unknown, but he cautioned me to weigh that against the emerging long term side effects for a meaningful portion of of those who have recovered. He has seen some very debilitating side effects that have lasted over 9 months now.

 

Also, he sent a link to a recent article that hasn’t received much attention that was really very exciting. It talks about how mRNA has been research for years as a possible cure for HIV (as we know, the issue with HIV has always been that it mutates at and astronomical rate and can’t be pinned down through traditional vaccine approaches). Anyway, these researchers began meeting with Moderna folks while they were working on their COVID vaccine. They worked together to modify the message and ran some tests and studies and it looks like this mRNA vaccine is very promising for HIV as well! My doc added at the end: “the way to think of traditional vaccines vs mRNA vaccines is when the body becomes infected the immune system ‘takes a picture’ and remembers that virus for future defense. Change the picture and you alter the impact the immune system has in the key period while the virus duplicates in your body. mRNA is more like ‘stem cell’ immunity. Rather than taking a picture or the virus, it recognizes all the colors in the picture and crates immunity against the colors.”

 

This is all a long-winded way of saying we each get to make our own choice,  it we should make it with all the facts available. Whatever everyone decides I hope we all remain safe and healthy and I look forward to reading all your trip reports from future cruises! Be they on NCL or another line.

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35 minutes ago, Navis said:

As many have said, no one if forcing anyone to do anything ... the choice is up to each of us. But none of us are free from the consequences of the decisions we make.

 

Some of what you say however is already being taken into consideration. About recovered COVID patients for example, in the countries that are requiring vaccines, they exempt anyone who has fully recovered within the last 90 days of the date of their departure.  Why is that, you might ask? Because of the actual detail in these reports and studies rather than just the headlines (none of which are as key catching as “6 month immunity with vaccination.”  
 

Actually read the whole studies across the world and see that they actually say ... the immune response generated by the vaccine is far to superior and has a lower decay rate than natural immunity. Tests run on blood samples of people with natural immunity and vaccine immunity (with roughly the same date of infection/injection) show that natural immunity wanes much faster and is much more narrow than the mRNA vaccines.

 

Here’s the other kicker ... studies have shown that natural immunity is also effected significantly with the introduction of variant strains! Look at the studies on the impact the vaccines on the UK and South African variant (haven’t seen any on the Brazilian variant yet). With respect to vaccines, they are for sure less effective (roughly 80% effective rather than 94%), but they still work at preventing all death and serious disease and at 80% are enough to maintain herd immunity (if and when reached).  Natural immunity has proven not to work that way ... they estimate at best 50% against variants and unknown impact on deaths and hospitalizations (they don’t have the data on prior infections yet).  So, unless you get reinfected with the same variant you are again rolling the dice.
 

As I mentioned in another thread I think, I went back and forth on whether I should get vaccinated ... I’m in my 40s and thankfully in good health so i’m it even eligible yet, but I have decided I will for many reasons, all of which my primary care physician brought to my attention:

 

1) mRNA vaccines are not really new ... they have been in development for over a decade now. They only difference here is the message. (The analogy he gave me was to think of it as the industry has been working on a proven safe envelope for years .. they are only modifying the paper inside the envelope for COVID). He emphasized to me that these are not in any way, shape or form, gene editing

 

2) mRNA is a fundamental aspect of human existence as our cells receive literally billions of them a day

 

3) The risk of actual infection from an mRNA vaccine is non existent while the risk for other forms of virus based vaccines is not high but it is not zero either

 

4) mRNA vaccines promote broad-based immunity that has shown to so far provide more than adequate protection against current variants and that such protection is far superior to strain specific natural immunity.

 

5) it is true that any possible long term side effects of mRNA vaccines remain unknown, but he cautioned me to weigh that against the emerging long term side effects for a meaningful portion of of those who have recovered. He has seen some very debilitating side effects that have lasted over 9 months now.

 

Also, he sent a link to a recent article that hasn’t received much attention that was really very exciting. It talks about how mRNA has been research for years as a possible cure for HIV (as we know, the issue with HIV has always been that it mutates at and astronomical rate and can’t be pinned down through traditional vaccine approaches). Anyway, these researchers began meeting with Moderna folks while they were working on their COVID vaccine. They worked together to modify the message and ran some tests and studies and it looks like this mRNA vaccine is very promising for HIV as well! My doc added at the end: “the way to think of traditional vaccines vs mRNA vaccines is when the body becomes infected the immune system ‘takes a picture’ and remembers that virus for future defense. Change the picture and you alter the impact the immune system has in the key period while the virus duplicates in your body. mRNA is more like ‘stem cell’ immunity. Rather than taking a picture or the virus, it recognizes all the colors in the picture and crates immunity against the colors.”

 

This is all a long-winded way of saying we each get to make our own choice,  it we should make it with all the facts available. Whatever everyone decides I hope we all remain safe and healthy and I look forward to reading all your trip reports from future cruises! Be they on NCL or another line.

Kind of a little essay here. I do appreciate all of your input. I can see that you are putting lots of thought into your decision making.

 

Time will tell, as they say. Younger folks like yourself, and children, are the ones that I am most concerned about in terms of...well, pretty much everything. Take care and hope you're making sure your vitamin D levels are what they should be!

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42 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

Kind of a little essay here. I do appreciate all of your input. I can see that you are putting lots of thought into your decision making.

 

Time will tell, as they say. Younger folks like yourself, and children, are the ones that I am most concerned about in terms of...well, pretty much everything. Take care and hope you're making sure your vitamin D levels are what they should be!

I am definitely known to be a little long winded!  And thank you for your thoughts and well wishes and, of course, the same to you. Yes, in Dr’s orders I’m doing my best to keep my vit D levels up ... before COVID I did not realize how little I was actually consuming!

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1 hour ago, Navis said:

As many have said, no one if forcing anyone to do anything ... the choice is up to each of us. But none of us are free from the consequences of the decisions we make.

 

Some of what you say however is already being taken into consideration. About recovered COVID patients for example, in the countries that are requiring vaccines, they exempt anyone who has fully recovered within the last 90 days of the date of their departure.  Why is that, you might ask? Because of the actual detail in these reports and studies rather than just the headlines (none of which are as key catching as “6 month immunity with vaccination.”  
 

Actually read the whole studies across the world and see that they actually say ... the immune response generated by the vaccine is far to superior and has a lower decay rate than natural immunity. Tests run on blood samples of people with natural immunity and vaccine immunity (with roughly the same date of infection/injection) show that natural immunity wanes much faster and is much more narrow than the mRNA vaccines.

 

Here’s the other kicker ... studies have shown that natural immunity is also effected significantly with the introduction of variant strains! Look at the studies on the impact the vaccines on the UK and South African variant (haven’t seen any on the Brazilian variant yet). With respect to vaccines, they are for sure less effective (roughly 80% effective rather than 94%), but they still work at preventing all death and serious disease and at 80% are enough to maintain herd immunity (if and when reached).  Natural immunity has proven not to work that way ... they estimate at best 50% against variants and unknown impact on deaths and hospitalizations (they don’t have the data on prior infections yet).  So, unless you get reinfected with the same variant you are again rolling the dice.
 

As I mentioned in another thread I think, I went back and forth on whether I should get vaccinated ... I’m in my 40s and thankfully in good health so i’m it even eligible yet, but I have decided I will for many reasons, all of which my primary care physician brought to my attention:

 

1) mRNA vaccines are not really new ... they have been in development for over a decade now. They only difference here is the message. (The analogy he gave me was to think of it as the industry has been working on a proven safe envelope for years .. they are only modifying the paper inside the envelope for COVID). He emphasized to me that these are not in any way, shape or form, gene editing

 

2) mRNA is a fundamental aspect of human existence as our cells receive literally billions of them a day

 

3) The risk of actual infection from an mRNA vaccine is non existent while the risk for other forms of virus based vaccines is not high but it is not zero either

 

4) mRNA vaccines promote broad-based immunity that has shown to so far provide more than adequate protection against current variants and that such protection is far superior to strain specific natural immunity.

 

5) it is true that any possible long term side effects of mRNA vaccines remain unknown, but he cautioned me to weigh that against the emerging long term side effects for a meaningful portion of of those who have recovered. He has seen some very debilitating side effects that have lasted over 9 months now.

 

Also, he sent a link to a recent article that hasn’t received much attention that was really very exciting. It talks about how mRNA has been research for years as a possible cure for HIV (as we know, the issue with HIV has always been that it mutates at and astronomical rate and can’t be pinned down through traditional vaccine approaches). Anyway, these researchers began meeting with Moderna folks while they were working on their COVID vaccine. They worked together to modify the message and ran some tests and studies and it looks like this mRNA vaccine is very promising for HIV as well! My doc added at the end: “the way to think of traditional vaccines vs mRNA vaccines is when the body becomes infected the immune system ‘takes a picture’ and remembers that virus for future defense. Change the picture and you alter the impact the immune system has in the key period while the virus duplicates in your body. mRNA is more like ‘stem cell’ immunity. Rather than taking a picture or the virus, it recognizes all the colors in the picture and crates immunity against the colors.”

 

This is all a long-winded way of saying we each get to make our own choice,  it we should make it with all the facts available. Whatever everyone decides I hope we all remain safe and healthy and I look forward to reading all your trip reports from future cruises! Be they on NCL or another line.

Funny you should mention HIV. My friend Katalin Karikó who was instrumental in developing mRNA and will most likely get Nobel Prize for it started out with HIV. She is now putting a lot of work into cancers

 

 

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On 4/6/2021 at 7:18 AM, BIG POOCH said:

With the reports of them requiring vaccinations, we will never be cruising on NCL again.  Hope they realize just how much this is going to hurt their business even more than it already has been.

 

 

OK Bye!

 

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