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Recent email urging us to contact the "CLIA action center"


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We last flew in November, 2020 with American from Charlotte to Chicago, and the plane was FULL. Masks were definitely required, but there wasn't any empty seat. All the airlines are starting to add planes, so i presume they need them to provide enough seats.

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39 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

...

The idea that cruising can't restart with reduced capacities and a fully vaccinated ship is preposterous.

 


+1

 

 

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I rec'd 2 emails, 1 from RCI and 1 from Celebrity.  I did not email my Senators.  I trust the CDC more than I do RCI or the CLIA.  The CDC makes its decision based on science, not profit.  I am a retired US govt employee.  I did not work for the CDC.  I carried a badge and arrested people, but I interacted with many other agencies, although not the CDC.   The federal employees that I came into contact with were dedicated, conscientious people.  .Federal Employees are there to protect us.  BTW, Dr. Fauci  does not work for the CDC and it is not his decision to restart cruises, just as was not his decision to shut down.  I admire Dr. Fauci, still working at 80 years old, whereas I retired 18 years ago and love it!!  I have booked a river cruise (under 250 people) in Sept, 2021 and 2 RCI cruises in Jan and March 2022, which I plan to do.

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3 hours ago, Emelda1967 said:

I’ve never understood how people are willing to kill themselves or others (or worse have chronic post disease issues) because of they think they have the right to do so. You have the right to not get vaccinated but you don’t have the right to jeopardize someone else’s health. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, stay home a little longer...The latest survey indicated that most people would definitely cruise if everyone was vaccinated.

 

Airplanes have HEPA filtration air systems that are efficient in deactivating most viruses and bacteria. Most cruise ships do not. And you don’t remain on a plane for 3 nights.

 

The CLIA letter is supporting the restart of cruising from U.S. ports without appropriate safeguards in place. They can resume cruising in other countries because theIr disease rate is much lower than the United States and they have appropriate restrictions in place. So there is less risk of COVID departing from other countries than leaving from here. Comparing those countries to the United States is almost ludicrous.

 

The CDC is not going to change their requirements just because of CLIA or any other entity; the United States has the highest number of cases, 31,000,000 and deaths (560,000) in the entire world. This is a shame and an embarrassment because the U.S. has the best medical resources in the world. But unfortunately, the past administration minimized the disease and the risks and therefore did not do what was needed to control the disease here.  (I know because it was my job, before I retired at the end of 2019 from the federal government, to keep diseases that affect animals and humans out of the U.S.)

 

Norwegian was planning to request the CDC to accept cruises with “fully vaccinated” adult passengers with negative testing for 16-yo children and under along with other safety procedures to speed up the process of allowing cruises from Florida and other states; which probably would have worked, especially if other countries were successful.

 

CLIA should be urging the states to support “fully vaccinated” cruises for now, and getting these governors from FL (my home state) and TX to reverse their executive orders banning businesses from requiring proof of vaccination in order to provide services. I am constantly amazed how these two continue to shoot their constituents and their economy in the foot by their thoughtless actions. And by people who support those actions. Cruise lines are busy moving their business to other countries, their economies will grow. The states that do support fully vaccinated will have cruises long before FL and TX. 

 

The requirement for vaccination wouldn’t even last that long, probably a year or less. It would give time for the pandemic to slow down and also give those of us who are vaccinated a chance to sail and use up some of those future cruise credits (12 cancelled cruises and counting.) 

Great post!!

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3 hours ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

If most cruisers are more comfortable with vaccine-required cruises, then this may be the right approach for the CLIA to take.  I can only speak for myself, but I was willing to book the Adventure this summer only because of the vaccine requirement (for adults).  Perhaps others feel the same way.

We booked the Adventure this summer for the same reason — everyone is required to be vaccinated, and rates were low enough that we could book a jr suite, large enough to relax in more than we normally would.  I read all of the info about protocols and felt comfortable to go.  And I’m someone who has barely left home in 13 months. 
 

I also expect we will be avoiding the shows, casinos, etc., have no problem masking, and social distancing.  We also may skip going ashore other than Coco Cay — we will see how things are going in Mexico and Grand Bahama  before the trip.

 

I did not write my Senators or Rep in response to the email today — I would like to see a more cohesive plan from the CDC over pressure from elected officials 
 

all that being 

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4 hours ago, yogimax said:

I doubt it.  Do you have any proof of your claim?

Our daughter and also some friends have flown on FULL planes the past few weeks.  It depends on the airline, but don't doubt it.

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This epidemic has reached the manageable stage.  We know how to proactively prevent it through vaccines.  We know how to cure it with existing medicines.  We know how to prevent transmission through filtration, sanitation, and distance.  Yes, some vulnerable individuals will be very adversely affected if exposed to the virus, but that holds true for many even worse diseases common to shipboard travel.

Please don't forbid me from traveling; my health concerns have been addressed, and I'm ready, willing and able to take a cruise.  It may not be right for you, due to your health concerns, so please stay safely home.  I have already made my choices regarding disease prevention.  My daily life may involve more exposure than is appropriate for you.  That exposure will not be increased by my vacation plans, even if those plans include cruising.  

Please continue to maintain your own level of safety by distance, sanitation, and filtration in a manner consistent with your health needs.  Be aware that those around you, even if they have not yet chosen to be cruise passengers, are accepting far more exposure than is appropriate for you to accept.  

We each will get on with life as is appropriate to our own situation. 

Please don't mandate your own choices on your neighbors.  

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29 minutes ago, bouhunter said:

Our daughter and also some friends have flown on FULL planes the past few weeks.  It depends on the airline, but don't doubt it.

Here's the hard data for the first eight days of April.  First column is 2021, second is 2020, third is 2019 (normal times)

 

TSA checkpoint travel numbers (current year(s) versus prior year/same weekday)
This page will be updated by 9 a.m. daily. (Back to Coronavirus (COVID-19) information)

 

Date    2021 Traveler Throughput    2020 Traveler Throughput    2019 Traveler Throughput
4/8/2021    1,510,829    104,090    2,487,398
4/7/2021    1,230,939    94,931    2,229,276
4/6/2021    1,195,306    97,130    2,091,056
4/5/2021    1,561,959    108,310    2,384,091
4/4/2021    1,543,474    122,029    2,462,929
4/3/2021    1,397,958    118,302    2,011,715
4/2/2021    1,580,785    129,763    2,476,884
4/1/2021    1,562,239    124,021    2,411,500

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400,000 people have cruised since last July under rigorous protocols to reduce spread of the virus. Of those 400,000, a mere 50 people tested positive at the end of their cruise. Nowhere on land can you be that safe. And most of that was before the widespread distribution of vaccines with among the highest efficacy in medical history.

 

If cruise ships sail initially with fully vaccinated crew and guests, the risk of virus spread is virtually zero. There is no science nor data behind the CDC's further delays.

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10 minutes ago, publicpersona said:

There is no science nor data behind the CDC's further delays.

Roughly 1,000 people are still dying each day from COVID in the U.S.

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5 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Roughly 1,000 people are still dying each day from COVID in the U.S.

 

That is sad but has little bearing on a cruise ship that requires adult passengers and crew be fully vaccinated.

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7 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Roughly 1,000 people are still dying each day from COVID in the U.S.

 

 1000 deaths from the past month or two are reported each day. Death reporting is very lagged and very staggered.

Plus 8000 people die every day in the USA from all causes, and many of those covid deaths in a normal year would be lumped into one of those other causes.

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6 hours ago, yogimax said:

The decision to restart cruising should not be made by politicians.  It has to be based on science and medicine.

Who do you think runs science.  Certainly not the scientists, but those that pay their salaries.  Good lord...

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2 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

I sent the email clia requested.  I doubt it will do much good being sent to the worthless politicians that it is being sent to but you can always hope.  With regards to flying... I'm heading to the airport in an hour and half.  I'll let you know how full my plane is and what seats are marked off.

 

The idea that cruising can't restart with reduced capacities and a fully vaccinated ship is preposterous.  While cruising is a more extended period of time compared to flying, flying is a far more concentrated congregate setting.  The malls are packed, restaurants are operating and all sorts of activities are being engaged in safely.  To suggest that cruising can't do the same isn't reasonable.

You are so right!

 

I sent it as well and added, the horror was the Princess ship at sea when this started, they were denied exit from the ship.  If someone gets COVID19 on a ship now... what is the big deal... we are told millions and millions have it.  No hospital will refuse a Covid 19 patient.  The cruiselines should only sail to ports that agree to take Covid19 patients from the ships. Problem solved.  

 

Or we could just wait until he Double hockey sticks freeze over and the esteemed laudable Dr Fauci lets us go free.

 

People are so .... sad, comes to mind!

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40 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Here's the hard data for the first eight days of April.  First column is 2021, second is 2020, third is 2019 (normal times)

 

TSA checkpoint travel numbers (current year(s) versus prior year/same weekday)
This page will be updated by 9 a.m. daily. (Back to Coronavirus (COVID-19) information)

 

Date    2021 Traveler Throughput    2020 Traveler Throughput    2019 Traveler Throughput
4/8/2021    1,510,829    104,090    2,487,398
4/7/2021    1,230,939    94,931    2,229,276
4/6/2021    1,195,306    97,130    2,091,056
4/5/2021    1,561,959    108,310    2,384,091
4/4/2021    1,543,474    122,029    2,462,929
4/3/2021    1,397,958    118,302    2,011,715
4/2/2021    1,580,785    129,763    2,476,884
4/1/2021    1,562,239    124,021    2,411,500

This is the number  of travelers. Really does not give a picture of travelers per plane, which is what we are talking about 

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1 minute ago, not-enough-cruising said:

This is the number  of travelers. Really does not give a picture of travelers per plane, which is what we are talking about 

Good luck using logic.... won’t work.  Can’t work

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27 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Roughly 1,000 people are still dying each day from COVID in the U.S.


And not a single one as a result of cruising. While unfortunate that people are dying, the number is dropping quickly, and full vaccination has proven to be 100% effective against severe cases or death. On a cruise where everyone is vaccinated, how is your statistic relevant?
 

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24 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

This is the number  of travelers. Really does not give a picture of travelers per plane, which is what we are talking about 

Nope... the claim was that flying would return to normal.  Normal is the number of flyers, not the load factor driven by a severe reduction in flights.

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6 hours ago, yogimax said:

I doubt it.  Do you have any proof of your claim?

 

Airlines don't care - they just want butts in seats.  TSA keep breaking records on the amounts of passengers they screen daily.

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6 hours ago, Jimbo said:

I have no problem waiting to next year. Been 13 months so far what's another 8 months.

You assume the cruise line will survive that long?  They are not doing well at all. 

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3 minutes ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

 

  TSA keep breaking records on the amounts of passengers they screen daily.

Not true.  See my post #33

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41 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

This is the number  of travelers. Really does not give a picture of travelers per plane, which is what we are talking about 

I fly a lot!  A Lot! My son is a pilot I have benefit's.  Flights are packed and have been since February.  Its impossible to fly stand by now.

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20 minutes ago, ccletzgo said:

You assume the cruise line will survive that long?  They are not doing well at all. 

Where there is a will there is a way.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, RobInMN said:

 The last airline is removing the center seat block and planes will be just as packed as pre-COVID. 

 

41 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Nope... the claim was that flying would return to normal.  Normal is the number of flyers, not the load factor driven by a severe reduction in flights.

Wrong. My claim was that planes will be just as packed as pre-COVID. I made no claim as to the total number of passengers.

And bouhunter also made reference to planes being full, and you again responded with total passenger counts.

TSA totals and total number of flights and total numbers of passengers has nothing to do with the fact that each plane is operating with the same capacity as pre-COVID.

 

Edited by RobInMN
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