Recent email urging us to contact the "CLIA action center"

[dswallow]

Enemies of cruising:

 

matsui_blumenthal_cruise_ship_cdc_guidance.pdf (house.gov)
 

We write today with significant concern about the prospect of premature resumption of cruise ship operations that could threaten public safety and increase the spread of the coronavirus. While the United States is making significant progress in distributing COVID-19 vaccines, introduction and spread of COVID-19 by cruise ship crew and passengers could undermine this progress and require additional mitigation measures that delay our economic recovery and put public health at severe risk.

[...]


Doris Matsui

U.S. Congresswoman Doris Matsui (house.gov)
House of Representatives, California, 6th congressional district (Sacramento)

Richard Blumenthal
Home | United States Senator Richard Blumenthal (senate.gov)
Senate, Connecticut

 

 

[yogimax]

1 hour ago, dswallow said:

Enemies of cruising:

 

 

Question... Is cruising more important than public health and safety?

[dswallow]

35 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Question... Is cruising more important than public health and safety?

 

That's a misdirection.

 

The question is cruising in any way harmful to public health and safety, moreso than anything else currently permitted and mostly unregulated. Especially under the circumstances the cruise lines want to operate under -- fully vaccinated crew and adult passengers, something completely mischaracterized in that nasty letter those two politicians wrote to the CDC.

[dswallow]

Cruise Ships in the CDC Dock

The entire industry is shut down in the U.S., while Europe and Asia are sailing again.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cruise-ships-in-the-cdc-dock-11618526805

[yogimax]

23 minutes ago, dswallow said:

 

The question is cruising in any way harmful to public health and safety, moreso than anything else currently permitted and mostly unregulated.

I don't know the answer to that question, nor do you.  An RCCL ship may hold up to 10,000 passengers and crew.   They are in close quarters, interacting mostly indoors.  Not the best scenario in a pandemic.

[dswallow]

1 minute ago, yogimax said:

I don't know the answer to that question, nor do you.  An RCCL ship may hold up to 10,000 passengers and crew.   They are in close quarters, interacting mostly indoors.  Not the best scenario in a pandemic.

 

I know there's some 100,000 people who've been sailing on cruise ships without vaccination and only 10 cases of infection, none requiring hospitalization. We know, from things like science, how vaccination tends to work. We've only been staring at how COVID-19 spreads for the last year focusing on every little possibility. We know a hell of a lot more now, have a hell of a lot more real data and experience, have vaccines that studies are showing so much more effective than anything before.

 

It's called, I believe, a preponderance of evidence. And almost every single bit of it goes to justifying ending this ridiculous over-reaching ban on cruising out of US ports.

 

I am NOT suggesting a free-for-all return immediately. But this no-how-no-way attitude has to cease.

[dswallow]

Received this response today...

 

[Tom47]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:44 PM, dswallow said:

 

I know there's some 100,000 people who've been sailing on cruise ships without vaccination and only 10 cases of infection, none requiring hospitalization. We know, from things like science, how vaccination tends to work. We've only been staring at how COVID-19 spreads for the last year focusing on every little possibility. We know a hell of a lot more now, have a hell of a lot more real data and experience, have vaccines that studies are showing so much more effective than anything before.

 

It's called, I believe, a preponderance of evidence. And almost every single bit of it goes to justifying ending this ridiculous over-reaching ban on cruising out of US ports.

 

I am NOT suggesting a free-for-all return immediately. But this no-how-no-way attitude has to cease.

I believe that you are too pessimistic.  See. 

 

[Emelda1967]

Seems like the senator from NJ understands science.

 

If folks want to cruise now, they can try another country. Although residents of the United States are pretty much persona non grata, so you might not get in. The countries that are allowing U.S. visitors will probably end up shutting their countries down when their infection rates climb or not and let their citizens get sick and/or die. 

 

The study done on the Princess indicated that the air filtration/distribution system was the primary culprit in spreading coronavirus. If you put fully vaccinated adults and tested children on a ship, and use appropriate safety protocols, then the cruise starts with the lowest risk possible. But the governors of FL and TX are against keeping passengers and crew safe that way, by banning businesses from requiring for vaccination in order to provide services, why is that? 

 

Cruise lines can’t function without healthy crews to work on the ships. Because no vaccine is 100% effective, having coronavirus onboard can still have an adverse impact. Being vaccinated doesn’t mean they won’t get sick and/or be quarantined, hopefully the vaccines will prevent hospitalization and/or death.

 

I am fascinated how everyone keep comparing the United States with the worst COVID record (STILL) after over a year into the pandemic than any other country in the world, to other countries where cruising has begun. Literally every other one of the 136+ countries have significantly lower raw numbers for infections and deaths. Every one of those numbers represents someone’s family member, friend, colleague or neighbor. It is only the fact that we have a large population that our death rates are lower than some and now with some of the population getting vaccinated. The U.S. still has twice as many COVID cases as the next closest country, India. 

 

We are almost at 575,000 deaths from COVID and counting. One sixth of the deaths in the entire world have occurred in the United States!

 

Per a recent survey, 28% of the Republicans in the U.S. are not planning to get vaccinated. Compare that to countries who have over 50% of the total population fully vaccinated and are still vaccinating, like Israel, a country where RCL will be starting cruises with vaccinated adult passengers and tested children.

 

People can complain all they want, by not allowing fully vaccinated cruises which the CDC would be hard pressed to deny, states like FL and TX are shooting the United States in our own foot. 

 

[xpcdoojk]

2 hours ago, Emelda1967 said:

Seems like the senator from NJ understands science.

 

If folks want to cruise now, they can try another country. Although residents of the United States are pretty much persona non grata, so you might not get in. The countries that are allowing U.S. visitors will probably end up shutting their countries down when their infection rates climb or not and let their citizens get sick and/or die. 

 

The study done on the Princess indicated that the air filtration/distribution system was the primary culprit in spreading coronavirus. If you put fully vaccinated adults and tested children on a ship, and use appropriate safety protocols, then the cruise starts with the lowest risk possible. But the governors of FL and TX are against keeping passengers and crew safe that way, by banning businesses from requiring for vaccination in order to provide services, why is that? 

 

Cruise lines can’t function without healthy crews to work on the ships. Because no vaccine is 100% effective, having coronavirus onboard can still have an adverse impact. Being vaccinated doesn’t mean they won’t get sick and/or be quarantined, hopefully the vaccines will prevent hospitalization and/or death.

 

I am fascinated how everyone keep comparing the United States with the worst COVID record (STILL) after over a year into the pandemic than any other country in the world, to other countries where cruising has begun. Literally every other one of the 136+ countries have significantly lower raw numbers for infections and deaths. Every one of those numbers represents someone’s family member, friend, colleague or neighbor. It is only the fact that we have a large population that our death rates are lower than some and now with some of the population getting vaccinated. The U.S. still has twice as many COVID cases as the next closest country, India. 

 

We are almost at 575,000 deaths from COVID and counting. One sixth of the deaths in the entire world have occurred in the United States!

 

Per a recent survey, 28% of the Republicans in the U.S. are not planning to get vaccinated. Compare that to countries who have over 50% of the total population fully vaccinated and are still vaccinating, like Israel, a country where RCL will be starting cruises with vaccinated adult passengers and tested children.

 

People can complain all they want, by not allowing fully vaccinated cruises which the CDC would be hard pressed to deny, states like FL and TX are shooting the United States in our own foot. 

 

Yes, you have said this before.  Thanks for the repeat

[OnTheJourney]

On 4/23/2021 at 6:47 PM, dswallow said:

Received this response today...

Wonder how many people have gotten letters from public officials that essentially convey - with a myriad of variations  - statements like "I'm keeping my eye on the situation", "thanks for bringing this to my attention", "I'll look into it", "thanks for sharing your thoughts with me", "I will continue to monitor the situation" (the latter two directly quoted from your Menendez response). Locally here in Berks County, we have an ongoing battle relative to lead contamination in parts of a nearby town and also a park / small lake (the park actually closed 7 years ago because of it). A small, grass-roots organization has been endeavoring to push the PA Fish and Boat Commission - and also the Berks County Commissioners - to do further testing, with the ultimate goal of maybe getting the park reopened someday. It's a long, complicated issue, but the point is...we've gotten all too many letters that basically relay the same tone that yours does. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[dswallow]

35 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Wonder how many people have gotten letters from public officials that essentially convey - with a myriad of variations  - statements like "I'm keeping my eye on the situation", "thanks for bringing this to my attention", "I'll look into it", "thanks for sharing your thoughts with me", "I will continue to monitor the situation" (the latter two directly quoted from your Menendez response). Locally here in Berks County, we have an ongoing battle relative to lead contamination in parts of a nearby town and also a park / small lake (the park actually closed 7 years ago because of it). A small, grass-roots organization has been endeavoring to push the PA Fish and Boat Commission - and also the Berks County Commissioners - to do further testing, with the ultimate goal of maybe getting the park reopened someday. It's a long, complicated issue, but the point is...we've gotten all too many letters that basically relay the same tone that yours does. 

 

I mean, it is nothing more than "it's not in my hands yet to consider" and then goes on to say when it is he'll take my opinions into account, along with other constituents, at that time.

 

I mean yeah, it's a neutral stance, at best. But it's not against it, either.

[OnTheJourney]

27 minutes ago, dswallow said:

it's a neutral stance

True enough. I guess I've just become a bit jaded after our local group - that is endeavoring to save this park I referred to - has either directly received (or else were copied on) so many pieces of correspondence that simply amount to 'passing the buck' and dodging the issue. It's laughable and frustrating at the same time. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[Coralc]

I had posted on another thread...that other than voting, we have no real influence on our elected officials. And sending *them* a mass form letter about the resumption of cruising, has absolutely no influence at all. I think all you can really expect is a form letter response and then it is just delete, delete, delete. 

[TheMastodon]

On 4/9/2021 at 2:02 PM, OnTheJourney said:

I disagree with what was proposed and so sent the following reply:

 

"As a loyal diamond-level customer of RCCL, I appeciate receiving this email. While I understand the sentiments expressed, I must admit to disagreeing with any sort of cruise restart as early as July and so unfortunately do not feel I can support the effort indicated. Given the number of virus cases surging in many parts of the US, along with the spread of covid variants, I do not feel it is the best time to restart cruising. I personally feel that the overall vaccination percentage, globally-speaking, needs to be considerably higher before the travel industry can safely begin to function again. I have a RCCL cruise booked for next year, and am more than content to wait until that time."

 

Hate to appear like a scrooge, but I just feel we're not quite there yet.  

 

 

Thanks for sharing your virtue signaling.  I'm sure you've made a difference!   

 

I don't think that cruise next year is looking good for you anyways - ZeroCovid supporters like yourself need to be a little more realistic.  Only true safe place is your living room!

[TheMastodon]

On 4/16/2021 at 9:34 PM, yogimax said:

Question... Is cruising more important than public health and safety?

 

McDonalds does more damage to public health than Covid19 has.

 

There aren't many of you left, I give you credit for holding on for so long!!!

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, TheMastodon said:

Only true safe place is your living room!

You're right...but I don't want to spend the rest of my life there. I'm more than willing to travel again - and have plans to do so, but simply feel (as I'm sure others do) that restarting in July is perhaps a bit too soon.

 

Not sure why you say that a cruise booked for next year is not "looking good" for me. What is the implication? That some resurgence of covid will cancel it? That I'll be too fearful to ever cruise again? If the latter, I'm traveling next month and an extensive fly/drive trip already booked for October. If Mr. Hagen comes up with a rescheduled Chairman's (likely European) cruise for later this year, we'll definitely plan on going. Other than the potential scenarios of getting (possbily seriously) ill or getting quarantined on a ship with a covid outbreak, I suspect little can be more harrowing than the ordeal we went through back on 3/23/19. So...cut me some slack here, ok?

Edited April 28, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[OnTheJourney]

9 hours ago, Coralc said:

I think all you can really expect is a form letter response and then it is just delete, delete, delete. 

Sure...I was just commenting on another forum about this. I'm a member of a local grassroots organization pursuing an environmental matter and we've gotten so many replies from government officials that essentially convey, with variations, stuff like "thanks for bringing this matter to my attention", "I will be closely monitoring the situation", "I'll be sure to look into this concern", etc.  

Edited April 28, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[grandgeezer]

4 hours ago, TheMastodon said:

 

McDonalds does more damage to public health than Covid19 has.

 

There aren't many of you left, I give you credit for holding on for so long!!!

To post something like this is so bizarre I'm sure you have facts and data to back this up, or do you "just know"? If not, this should lower you creditability, on anything else you post to 0.

[mugtech]

19 hours ago, OnTheJourney said:

Wonder how many people have gotten letters from public officials that essentially convey - with a myriad of variations  - statements like "I'm keeping my eye on the situation", "thanks for bringing this to my attention", "I'll look into it", "thanks for sharing your thoughts with me", "I will continue to monitor the situation" (the latter two directly quoted from your Menendez response). Locally here in Berks County, we have an ongoing battle relative to lead contamination in parts of a nearby town and also a park / small lake (the park actually closed 7 years ago because of it). A small, grass-roots organization has been endeavoring to push the PA Fish and Boat Commission - and also the Berks County Commissioners - to do further testing, with the ultimate goal of maybe getting the park reopened someday. It's a long, complicated issue, but the point is...we've gotten all too many letters that basically relay the same tone that yours does. 

Wondering of which park you speak.  I grew up in Shillington,  graduated from GMHS, been out of Berks since 1998.

[OnTheJourney]

15 minutes ago, mugtech said:

I grew up in Shillington,  graduated from GMHS, been out of Berks since 1998.

Ah!  A local connection here on the boards!!!  OK....it's Kaercher Creek near Hamburg - right off of the old Rt. 22 in Edenburg. I'm sure you might be familiar (?)  Very little publicity on it until it closed in '14. Small lake - technically an "impoundment" constructed for flood control back in the 70s. Still used by anglers for fishing (and also kayakers) but the picnic tables, etc. have all been removed. A nice indoor gathering area formerly used for parties, receptions, etc. is now all boarded up and unused the past 7 years. Restrooms are locked. The posts (that were in cement) of a very nice wood exercise apparatus were simply sawed off about 6 inches above ground level. The remaning stumps are still there in the cement bases. The park is owned by PA Fish and Boat Commission but Berks County leased it for decades - for....wait for it...$1 a year! Once battery casings were discovered as a result of the former operations in the area (they used the spent casings, etc. for fill....wonderful idea, right?) that is what prompted an investigation. Noone wants to pay for further testing and possible additional clean-up. There's more to the story but that's the gist of it. 

 

Here is a recent video put together by the head of our organization who is endeavoring to get things moving again in the way of further testing. Ideally, the goal is to see the park reopened at some point - but not very likely I think. Feel free to pass this along to whomever you still might know in Berks...or even beyond. We're always looking for additional support and members!!!  

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[Roger88]

7 hours ago, TheMastodon said:

 

Thanks for sharing your virtue signaling.  I'm sure you've made a difference!   

 

I don't think that cruise next year is looking good for you anyways - ZeroCovid supporters like yourself need to be a little more realistic.  Only true safe place is your living room!

I doubt we are going to cruise this year anyway, so there is no point even discussing this matter right now. Lets wait for summer to arrive first 

[mugtech]

8 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

Ah!  A local connection here on the boards!!!  OK....it's Kaercher Creek near Hamburg - right off of the old Rt. 22 in Edenburg. I'm sure you might be familiar (?)  Very little publicity on it until it closed in '14. Small lake - technically an "impoundment" constructed for flood control back in the 70s. Still used by anglers for fishing (and also kayakers) but the picnic tables, etc. have all been removed. A nice indoor gathering area formerly used for parties, receptions, etc. is now all boarded up and unused the past 7 years. Restrooms are locked. The posts (that were in cement) of a very nice wood exercise apparatus were simply sawed off about 6 inches above ground level. The remaning stumps are still there in the cement bases. The park is owned by PA Fish and Boat Commission but Berks County leased it for decades - for....wait for it...$1 a year! Once battery casings were discovered as a result of the former operations in the area (they used the spent casings, etc. for fill....wonderful idea, right?) that is what prompted an investigation. Noone wants to pay for further testing and possible additional clean-up. There's more to the story but that's the gist of it. 

 

Here is a recent video put together by the head of our organization who is endeavoring to get things moving again in the way of further testing. Ideally, the goal is to see the park reopened at some point - but not very likely I think. Feel free to pass this along to whomever you still might know in Berks...or even beyond. We're always looking for additional support and members!!!  

 

 

 

Thanks for the info, know where you mean as I often go down 22 West and then hit 61 South or 419 South to visit family in western Berks.  Good luck in your quest.

[Stallion]

There is no reason the majority of the United States shouldn't hit herd immunity by mid-July --the government in less than 100 days has rolled out an exceptional vaccination program with sufficient supply to reach 70%-85% by that time frame-many states will hit those targets. 7 states are already at 50%-55% of eligible residents receiving at least one shot. The ones that won't look  almost exactly like the states that voted for Trump in the Electoral College or the Southeastern Conference Football standings.  The concerns of the CDC would dissolve in weeks if those states would hit their targets just like in Israel and Singapore where cruising is resuming

Edited April 28, 2021 by Stallion

[BecciBoo]

On 4/16/2021 at 8:34 PM, yogimax said:

Question.

Does anyone have half a brain at that place?  I don't think so.