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Hundreds of sellers are offering false and stolen Covid-19 vaccine cards


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1 minute ago, DirtyDawg said:

Fake Covid-19 vax cards for $20 - $60, that's highway robbery. Mine cost only a couple of pennies for the ink. 

 

image.thumb.png.fc9ab65b1aefc4874c138be413b770e5.png

 

😁

 

 

 

Is it appropriate to say LMAO on here?

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20 hours ago, Alakegirl said:

They didn’t take my medicare number when i got mine, nor any health insurance information

Ditto here, nor did I even have to prove who I was. All they asked for was name and birthdate. And since the State did it, my insurance provide has no record of it, unlike my Shingles and Flu shots which I can see online, since I got it at a local pharmacy and they ran the insurance. 

 

We are going to scan, copy, reduce and laminate copies, but keep the originals intact in case we have to get a booster later on. Laminated copies will go into our passport holders and reduced laminated copies will go into our wallets. 

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9 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

An argument that could be used for virtually anything....

 

I would be fine with a voluntary database but suspect that in order to travel outside one's country registration may be required.

 

We live in an increasingly complex world. Solutions that worked when people lived on farms or rural towns, rarely moved throughout their lives and did not travel much beyond adjacent towns/cities is over.  If this global pandemic has shown us nothing else, it has demonstrated how quickly a virus or disease can spread globally and how much more likely we would've gotten an earlier handle on the infection had we been able to do appropriate levels of contact tracing.

 

All very true. Doesn't change my thinking. Databases are far too easily penetrated and compromised. That coupled with the early horror stories stemming from no fly lists is enough for me.

 

8 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

If you got the vaccination it is in a database. 

 

True. I had to trade a small amount of privacy to gain protection from covid-19. That doesn't mean that I'm willing to consent to this information being made available worldwide.

 

Not that I particularly care about my vaccination being public knowledge. My concern is that such a database will evolve. Why not roll in the no fly lists? And how about lists of those that have not kept up child support payments? Parental abduction lists? All easily justifiable until people start to a abuse the database.

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The asked for my insurance info when I received the shot but they haven't notified them yet. I have my card and I'm happy to show it to anyone who asks. The vaccine is entered in the Washington state database: https://wa.myir.ne

To travel I need a passport and sometimes a visa. If they want to access my vaccine records, they are welcome to the information!

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20 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

Fake Covid-19 vax cards for $20 - $60.

That's highway robbery!

 

Mine cost only a couple of pennies for the ink. 

 

image.thumb.png.fc9ab65b1aefc4874c138be413b770e5.png

 

😁

 

 

Oh Noooo! You’ve put a photo of the Vaccination Card on the internet and now all ‘those people’ can copy it and do all kinds of things to it, and.......oh, its a fake one. Never Mind....

 

Den

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8 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

All very true. Doesn't change my thinking. Databases are far too easily penetrated and compromised. That coupled with the early horror stories stemming from no fly lists is enough for me.

 

 

True. I had to trade a small amount of privacy to gain protection from covid-19. That doesn't mean that I'm willing to consent to this information being made available worldwide.

 

Not that I particularly care about my vaccination being public knowledge. My concern is that such a database will evolve. Why not roll in the no fly lists? And how about lists of those that have not kept up child support payments? Parental abduction lists? All easily justifiable until people start to a abuse the database.

 

It could be done so only you can download your vaccination record. It would be encrypted and the business checking would only get a confirmation when your bar code is scanned.

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https://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Celebrity/General_Info/CEL_Healthy_at_Sea_FAQs.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1BV5fsidLTVA3eUnTR2ArtcUhb3PdNZLA3aVG4DKIFuPdjLDxnIBbi4nQ
 

I wouldn’t feel reassured about them accepting a piece of paper confirming you’ve been vaccinated when you can buy fake ones on the darknet. Surely some form of digital QR code confirmation is better and less open to abuse! 

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18 minutes ago, Edinburghgirl1 said:

https://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Celebrity/General_Info/CEL_Healthy_at_Sea_FAQs.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1BV5fsidLTVA3eUnTR2ArtcUhb3PdNZLA3aVG4DKIFuPdjLDxnIBbi4nQ
 

I wouldn’t feel reassured about them accepting a piece of paper confirming you’ve been vaccinated when you can buy fake ones on the darknet. Surely some form of digital QR code confirmation is better and less open to abuse! 

Actually, QR codes are extremely easy to create and link to whatever text, pdf, image, url, etc. that you want. Scan this one that I just created as a small example. It says "This is all of my vaccination information!", but could well be a doctored photograph, pdf, etc., of a real vaccination certificate.

 

frame.png.65c39e7b9aa8b52f84f18de425e88831.png

Unfortunately, whatever Celebrity plans on doing to to verify vaccinations is subject to potential abuse, and I'm not sure that there is any easy solution if an unvaccinated person really wants to board. 

 

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We got vaccinated by the city health department and they didn’t take any insurance information. We have a digital record through the scheduling system our city health department uses. But at this point I don’t see how anyone could streamline the various digital records into one online database that could actually ‘verify’ you had the vaccine.

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With all the different certificates, cards, etc, issued by various states or counties how would foreign countries, requiring vax evidence, work out what is valid or not?

I'm curious because we have a national Medicare database where vax evidence is easily shown via a smartphone app or downloadable on computer.

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1 hour ago, lyndarra said:

With all the different certificates, cards, etc, issued by various states or counties how would foreign countries, requiring vax evidence, work out what is valid or not?

I'm curious because we have a national Medicare database where vax evidence is easily shown via a smartphone app or downloadable on computer.

I suspect that in the US it will be one or more commercial systems that work out arrangements to get their system accepted by various countries, airlines, etc that one would have to voluntarily sign up with, including a HiPAA release such that they can confirm your id and vaccination status.  I think Clear is already working on such a system with the airlines.

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On 4/9/2021 at 1:06 PM, Fouremco said:

Your vaccination details and possibly a photo or scan of your documentation should be added to the information required by Celebrity as part of your online check in, with the clear understanding that it is subject to verification.  That might not guarantee that no anti-vaxxer will be able to sneak aboard, but it would serve as a deterrent.  

This has been discussed in hundreds of posts.  Can a card by faked? - certainly.  If needed can a vaccination be verified? - certainly again.

Falsification of a card could result in civil and probably legal difficulties.  Will be interesting to see what is requested as proof and if spot checks are made.  If caught would think at a minimum the offender would be sent ashore at the next port.

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On 4/9/2021 at 1:49 PM, Alakegirl said:

They didn’t take my medicare number when i got mine, nor any health insurance information

Yes, but the location where you were vaccinated has a record of the vaccination.  This is required by law.  Not hard to verify.

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In Oregon where we were vaccinated our insurance info was taken.    We have now had two doses.   Just to make sure we had the info documented we also had it documented in our yellow international vaccine certificate that we have that contains our yellow fever vaccine and others.  The pharmacist that did our vaccines has not had anyone else bring them in.

  Also the friends who have posted a photo of their Covid vaccine have only posted a photo of the back of their card which only shows the return date for the second shot.  No name, date or lot number is showing.  

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IMO, the US is the problem here. I say that with great knowledge from inside the US and only media or message board info for other countries.

 

The US has argued this topic adnusium. The President has said we will not have 'vaccine passports' and FL and TX have officially banned them via executive order. People are so worried about privacy, they forget about what's already out there.

 

Vaccines in the US where provided to states and each state did something a little different. Some Pharmacies were administering shots. Mine was at a hospital. My wife has worked at a pop up vaccination site at a recreation center to get more vaccines out. Will all of these places have the same way to recall who got which dose and when? Doubtful. All vaccines are given by appointment only so there is a record of you making an appointment, how the record is kept once you show up or miss the appointment is up in the air.

 

I just read an article about HIPAA and how it works with the vaccines. HIPAA does cover vaccine privacy...here's how that would work...Your employer can ask for proof of vaccination to be employed, then cannot seek more info that the CDC card given when we got the shot. That will be the same for X. Other countries are an entirely different story.

 

My first cruise since covid cancellation is Sept '22. Plenty of time to see how things unfold with proof of vaccination, how they handle the ones that refuse, how countries/ports are dealing with it, what happens if someone has a fake card then gets covid on the ship....liabilities? fines? banned from sailing? lawsuits...from X or other countries or other passengers. All of these things are out of our control right now. My wife and I have been vaccinated and will get any required boosters. I will feel just as confident sailing vaccinated for covid next to a covid unvaccinated passenger as I would sailing with someone unvaccinated for Measles. We don't ever think about a measles outbreak because most of us are vaccinated. The biggest concern is the interruption of the sailing due to the fake proof. 

 

There is no way every country/state/province/territory/county is recording this info the same. Their main goal is to get their country safe again, not get their country ready to sail the Galapagos Islands.

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In my province of Nova Scotia we can only get vaccinated by booking through our government site using our provincial health care #. We are then given our papers and can also log in online to obtain our record

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There is no end to this argument.  Both sides have valid points and concerns.  Here is how I view it for what it is worth.

 

First and foremost, I chose to get vaccinated for my personal protection from getting severe COVID or even dying. I now have a vaccine record card.  If required I can present it and travel to a country requiring proof of vaccination.  Or go on a cruise requiring documentation.  This all gives me some piece of mind and freedom after a horrible year.  I absolutely cannot control anything that anybody else decides to do.  Even fake a vaccination document.  That will no doubt happen.  There are unethical and dishonest people everywhere.  But I am protected by having a real vaccine.  I will go on knowing I will run into perhaps a few people on a cruise that faked it.  They are much more at risk from severe COVID than I am by far.  Their choice.  Unfortunately if they test positive on a cruise and get sick- that might affect my enjoyment of my vacation if it comes to an abrupt end.  That is my true risk.  Their risk is worse (medical, legal).

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1 minute ago, shipgeeks said:

"Patient Number", listed on card.

Interesting.  In my state, it is a small 3"x5" card, "COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card" does not have a number printed on it.  The only information is all handwritten by the pharmacist at CVS, name, DOB Moderna vax lot number, date does received and the CVS site number that I went to.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, txflood33 said:

IMO, the US is the problem here. I say that with great knowledge from inside the US and only media or message board info for other countries.

 

The US has argued this topic adnusium. The President has said we will not have 'vaccine passports' and FL and TX have officially banned them via executive order. People are so worried about privacy, they forget about what's already out there.

 

Vaccines in the US where provided to states and each state did something a little different. Some Pharmacies were administering shots. Mine was at a hospital. My wife has worked at a pop up vaccination site at a recreation center to get more vaccines out. Will all of these places have the same way to recall who got which dose and when? Doubtful. All vaccines are given by appointment only so there is a record of you making an appointment, how the record is kept once you show up or miss the appointment is up in the air.

 

I just read an article about HIPAA and how it works with the vaccines. HIPAA does cover vaccine privacy...here's how that would work...Your employer can ask for proof of vaccination to be employed, then cannot seek more info that the CDC card given when we got the shot. That will be the same for X. Other countries are an entirely different story.

 

My first cruise since covid cancellation is Sept '22. Plenty of time to see how things unfold with proof of vaccination, how they handle the ones that refuse, how countries/ports are dealing with it, what happens if someone has a fake card then gets covid on the ship....liabilities? fines? banned from sailing? lawsuits...from X or other countries or other passengers. All of these things are out of our control right now. My wife and I have been vaccinated and will get any required boosters. I will feel just as confident sailing vaccinated for covid next to a covid unvaccinated passenger as I would sailing with someone unvaccinated for Measles. We don't ever think about a measles outbreak because most of us are vaccinated. The biggest concern is the interruption of the sailing due to the fake proof. 

 

There is no way every country/state/province/territory/county is recording this info the same. Their main goal is to get their country safe again, not get their country ready to sail the Galapagos Islands.

One disagreement about HIPAA. Your employer can ask for anything they want concerning proof. You would have to authorize the release of information for them to get it. You can certainly deny them access. At which point they can go no information, no job if you are in an at will position, not covered by contract. Most jobs in US are at will.

 

Any protections that might exist would be from employment law in your state, not HIPAA.

Edited by nocl
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There appears to be general agreement that fraudulent vaccination documents pose the risk of having unvaccinated adult passengers aboard. Beyond that, there is little apparent agreement whether or not Celebrity is capable of verifying the authenticity of these documents.

 

Personally, I have serious doubts. In the US alone, how many separate data bases hold information on vaccinated individuals? How many in Canada, the EU and the rest of the world? Put bluntly, I don't believe that Celebrity has or will have the capability of tapping all of these resources to verify vaccination documents proffered by passengers as proof. Additionally, Celebrity currently only requires that you provide your documents on the day of embarkation. I simply can't imagine how they will verify thousands of documents in a wide variety of formats and languages.

 

Instead, I suspect that Celebrity will treat the vaccination document in much the same pro forma manner as the Public Health Questionnaire with such questions as "Within the last 7 days, have you, or any person listed above, had any of the following symptoms: Fever, Chills, Cough, Runny Nose, Sore Throat or Shortness of breath?" 

 

I'm optimistic that there will be few individuals who will try to beat the system to cruise. In that regard, I'm quite possibly naive. However, I will be fully vaccinated and my medical risk minimal. As much as having all vaccinations verified sounds appealing, I believe that Celebrity also views the risk posed by a small number of possible frauds to be minimal.

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45 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

"Patient Number", listed on card.

 

41 minutes ago, KWW88 said:

Interesting.  In my state, it is a small 3"x5" card, "COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card" does not have a number printed on it.  The only information is all handwritten by the pharmacist at CVS, name, DOB Moderna vax lot number, date does received and the CVS site number that I went to.

I have the CDC card. There is a spot for "Patient number (medical record or IIS record number" but they didn't fill anything in the spot. I've verified that my vaccine appears on the state records so I'm good to go. 

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