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DeSantis could sink our chances of cruising out of Florida


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17 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I honestly don't care if others on my cruise are vaccinated or not. It's not up to me to decide for others. I only ask the same in return. I'll be vaccinated (halfway there already), so I'm statistically very unlikely to even get it (again). And if I did, my symptoms would be mild, even milder than when I had Covid before, and that was already mild. I will say having Covid had one positive effect: it was great for getting rid of annoying door-to-door salespeople. You know how fast people can run when you say "I have Covid"? LOL

 

Almost as fast as grocery shopping without a mask like we do.   Never have I got my shopping done so fast.

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The point I think I was trying to get across when I started the thread has been lost.  What I was saying about the set back that could possibly happen lies in the hands of the Cruise companies.

I really think that if DeSantis' executive order includes cruise companies they will delay their start date until "heard immunity" is obtained.  If they are forced to be told they cannot resume cruises with vaccinated passengers only TO START then they will not risk sailing out of Florida.

Its a world of difference for Royal Caribbean to leave that port knowing if all are vaccinated and not knowing how many really are.  Its always a numbers game in the cruise industry right down to the amount of drink packages they need to sell to break even.

A non vaccinated cruise the way Covid numbers are right now will have to have a number of designated rooms for people that contract Covid during the cruise.  Its bound to happen.  I major outbreak on a ship sets the cruising industry back another year or more.  Maybe even leads to bankruptcy.

To have DeSantis or anybody else tell the cruise companies they cannot require passengers to prove they are fully vaccinated really ties there hands.

I really dont think they are willing to take that risk in the United States right now thus taking away fully vaccinated cruises, thus the set back I was trying to address in the thread.

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1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

A COVID vaccine requirement does not, at this time, create two "classes" of people.  Establishing "protected class" status is a legal concept used in determining if any action is discriminatory.  As I said, there likely will be challenges to a vaccine mandate, but it is a steep climb.  There are already vaccine mandates in all 50 states for children and young adults to attend public school and universities.  Those have been deemed to be lawful.  In addition, the EEOC has come out and said employers can lawfully require that their employees be vaccinated for COVID, provided reasonable exceptions are made for those unable to receive the vaccine for established and documented medical reasons or religious objections.  

 

You say that Governor DeSantis "believes in the rights of the people who placed him in office"?  Does that mean only those who voted for him?  The Governor needs to believe in and protect the rights of ALL of the people of Florida.  That includes those of us that want to protect our health and the business owners that want to protect the health and safety of their employees and patrons.

 

Finally, the vaccines are not an "experiment" by any stretch of the imagination.  They have been tested and have been determined to be effective and safe.  Some folks are hesitant because of concerns about the speed of the trials and authorizations and that is understandable.  More and more of those people each day are making the decision to go ahead and get vaccinated and I think that will continue in larger and larger numbers.  What is not ok is those who have carried this "experimental" line of attack to the extremes and are spreading dangerous falsehoods on social media and elsewhere.  And their insanity is not deserving of respect or protection.

So you mean, as a business owner, you want everyone to be vaccinated with the flu shot?  The flu kills also.  You understand you live in the USA and not a communist country?  We have rights in this country.  By the way, the vaccines are approved for emergency use, and not yet approved by the CDC.  Therefore, it is still experimental.  It also sounds like you are afraid which is fine.  Therefore, the simple solution is to continue to stay away from people and not go on a cruise.  Plus the vaccine is similar to the flu shot.  It does not last forever, and will need a booster every year, with a change for the latest variant.  Your expectation for having proof of vaccine is pretty far fetched.  By the way, I live in Florida, and I very seldom ever put on a mask when going out....that includes restaurants, bars, and the multiple events our state has had this year and last year

 

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7 minutes ago, ticketsunlimited said:

To have DeSantis or anybody else tell the cruise companies they cannot require passengers to prove they are fully vaccinated really ties there hands.

I really dont think they are willing to take that risk in the United States right now thus taking away fully vaccinated cruises, thus the set back I was trying to address in the thread.

That is the million dollar question. Even though the cruise lines have been standing by the governor's side they have not made any declarations one way or another about this issue. The fact that they have not joined the lawsuit against the CDC (or started their own) tells me that they are wary of that approach as well. Obviously they would appreciate the governor's help but I sense they are not all on the same page.

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11 minutes ago, ticketsunlimited said:

The point I think I was trying to get across when I started the thread has been lost.  What I was saying about the set back that could possibly happen lies in the hands of the Cruise companies.

I really think that if DeSantis' executive order includes cruise companies they will delay their start date until "heard immunity" is obtained.  If they are forced to be told they cannot resume cruises with vaccinated passengers only TO START then they will not risk sailing out of Florida.

Its a world of difference for Royal Caribbean to leave that port knowing if all are vaccinated and not knowing how many really are.  Its always a numbers game in the cruise industry right down to the amount of drink packages they need to sell to break even.

A non vaccinated cruise the way Covid numbers are right now will have to have a number of designated rooms for people that contract Covid during the cruise.  Its bound to happen.  I major outbreak on a ship sets the cruising industry back another year or more.  Maybe even leads to bankruptcy.

To have DeSantis or anybody else tell the cruise companies they cannot require passengers to prove they are fully vaccinated really ties there hands.

I really dont think they are willing to take that risk in the United States right now thus taking away fully vaccinated cruises, thus the set back I was trying to address in the thread.

I'm sure Baltimore, NJ/NYC, Norfolk, etc would love to have a few more ships sailing from their ports.

I'm not setting foot aboard a ship without a 100% vaccination policy for eligible people.

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What's really bizarre about the EO, is how it is focused to appeal to his base but most of the tourism industry taxes are collected from people coming in from blue states. I would have  thought he would be doing what needs to be done for the tourism industry to thrive and pump tax revenue into the state.

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11 minutes ago, Joseph2017China said:

So you mean, as a business owner, you want everyone to be vaccinated with the flu shot?  The flu kills also.  You understand you live in the USA and not a communist country?  We have rights in this country.  By the way, the vaccines are approved for emergency use, and not yet approved by the CDC.  Therefore, it is still experimental.  It also sounds like you are afraid which is fine.  Therefore, the simple solution is to continue to stay away from people and not go on a cruise.  Plus the vaccine is similar to the flu shot.  It does not last forever, and will need a booster every year, with a change for the latest variant.  Your expectation for having proof of vaccine is pretty far fetched.  By the way, I live in Florida, and I very seldom ever put on a mask when going out....that includes restaurants, bars, and the multiple events our state has had this year and last year

 

Your "rights" end at my private property. You do not have freedom of speech, assembly, to bear arms, or whatever right it is that you think you have to be on private property to buy something... Restricting access to my private property is not Communist. Do you even understand what Communism is?

 

LOL! The CDC will never issue the approval for the vaccine. The FDA is responsible for that.

 

"Therefore, it is still experimental."  - Covid-19 vaccines are not experimental, and have not skipped any part of the trial stages. Making up your own facts?

 

We do not know how long the vaccine lasts yet. Again, creating your own facts. 

 

You use comparisons that make no sense.... until I read that you are here in Florida and couldn't care less about those around you. Now it makes perfect sense and is typical. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

I'm with you. We have a multigeneration cruise booked for Thanksgiving and a few in 2022 as well, without a vaccine requirement for all crew and passengers for all that are eligible (currently 16+), we will be cancelling.

I honestly think either stance will make a lot of people cancel.  Many who cannot or will not take the vaccine booked cruises.  A requirement for it may make them cancel.  Then, we have people who want everyone vaccinated who will cancel if the cruise is not entirely vaccinated.  Either way, the cruise lines are in quite the pickle.  I think everyone just wants to be in 2019 again.

 

Edited by jaredhamburg
typo
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2 hours ago, Pratique said:

This two classes thing is a political talking point. And yes, the Supreme Court said over a hundred years ago that schools could require students to be vaccinated, so it's not a novel idea.

This era is not the same. We are a divided nation and we will never unify again unless by force of a despot leader. No so called red state owes no so called blue state a damn thing. Time will change more of the red states who are being purposely invaded... blue. 

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Posted (edited)

Just reacting to Thread Title:

 If DeSantis doesn't have authority and CDC decides to not permit cruising out of FL, there's no other Gov. outside the possibly of Abbott in TX, who has more pressing border issues, who would allow cruising,  Not John Bell Edwards, not McMaster  and certainly not Cuomo, Islee or Newsom.

Edited by crewsweeper
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13 minutes ago, crewsweeper said:

Just reacting to Thread Title:

 If DeSantis doesn't have authority and CDC decides to not permit cruising out of FL, there's no other Gov. outside the possibly of Abbott in TX, who has more pressing border issues, who would allow cruising,  Not John Bell Edwards, not McMaster  and certainly not Cuomo, Islee or Newsom.

DeSantis on one hand wants to sue the government to allow cruising to start in July in Florida.  Then he follows up saying that the cruise companies cannot require passengers be vaccinated to board the ship.  Its a peck on the cheek and then a slap in the back of the head on the way out.

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1 hour ago, Mikew0805 said:

Your "rights" end at my private property. You do not have freedom of speech, assembly, to bear arms, or whatever right it is that you think you have to be on private property to buy something... Restricting access to my private property is not Communist. Do you even understand what Communism is?

 

LOL! The CDC will never issue the approval for the vaccine. The FDA is responsible for that.

 

"Therefore, it is still experimental."  - Covid-19 vaccines are not experimental, and have not skipped any part of the trial stages. Making up your own facts?

 

We do not know how long the vaccine lasts yet. Again, creating your own facts. 

 

You use comparisons that make no sense.... until I read that you are here in Florida and couldn't care less about those around you. Now it makes perfect sense and is typical. 

 

 

 

 

Amen brother!!

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Florida and cruise companies could be locked in a battle over vaccine requirements as the state puts a ban on vaccine passports while cruise lines continue to mandate the jabs for passengers and crew.

On April 2, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis issued an executive order banning vaccine passports and local businesses from requiring this proof of vaccination. This ban applies to cruise lines as well, DeSantis' press secretary Cody McCloud told Insider in an email.

"The Governor's Executive Order provides that businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business," McCloud told Insider in an email. "Therefore, the Executive Order prohibits cruise lines from requiring vaccine passports for their Florida operations."

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32 minutes ago, ticketsunlimited said:

Florida and cruise companies could be locked in a battle over vaccine requirements as the state puts a ban on vaccine passports while cruise lines continue to mandate the jabs for passengers and crew.

On April 2, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis issued an executive order banning vaccine passports and local businesses from requiring this proof of vaccination. This ban applies to cruise lines as well, DeSantis' press secretary Cody McCloud told Insider in an email.

"The Governor's Executive Order provides that businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business," McCloud told Insider in an email. "Therefore, the Executive Order prohibits cruise lines from requiring vaccine passports for their Florida operations."

If the CDC makes it a stipulation that all passengers, and crew, must be vaccinated before cruising resumes, who will back down? There will have to be proof of vacation, with all the people who said they wouldn't get the vaccine, they should believe nobody, at their word. If they are willing to risk a felony for forging the card, that's up to them.

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3 hours ago, ticketsunlimited said:

To have DeSantis or anybody else tell the cruise companies they cannot require passengers to prove they are fully vaccinated really ties there hands.

 

I think this is a key point.

 

Outside of Florida, cruise lines can offer both fully vaccinated and unrestricted cruises. 

 

Inside Florida, they apparently can't offer fully vaccinated cruises.  People who want them need to cruise elsewhere, so Florida loses revenue and jobs.

 

Some say we shouldn't worry yet because US cruising is still closed.  Maybe DeSantis will change his mind, or the order will be ruled invalid.

 

But meanwhile people are booking future cruises.  Shore-side businesses are planning for the re-opening of cruising. At least some are probably thinking:  Maybe Seattle or Los Angeles would be a better bet during these uncertain times.

 

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18 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

I think this is a key point.

 

Outside of Florida, cruise lines can offer both fully vaccinated and unrestricted cruises. 

 

Inside Florida, they apparently can't offer fully vaccinated cruises.  People who want them need to cruise elsewhere, so Florida loses revenue and jobs.

 

Some say we shouldn't worry yet because US cruising is still closed.  Maybe DeSantis will change his mind, or the order will be ruled invalid.

 

But meanwhile people are booking future cruises.  Shore-side businesses are planning for the re-opening of cruising. At least some are probably thinking:  Maybe Seattle or Los Angeles would be a better bet during these uncertain times.

 

What about texas ban?

20210406_104641169.jpeg

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

What about texas ban?

 

By coincidence I was just typing a reply to your earlier interesting post.

 

I read Abbot's order.  It is primarily focused on prohibiting government agencies from producing or requiring vaccine passports, but it does say that if a business receives public funds, they are also banned from requiring proof of vaccine (with some exceptions).

 

Unfortunately I don't know whether cruise lines get US or Texas public funds, so I don't know if the ban applies to them.

 

Edited by Shorewalk Holmes
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3 hours ago, jaredhamburg said:

I honestly think either stance will make a lot of people cancel.  Many who cannot or will not take the vaccine booked cruises.  A requirement for it may make them cancel.  Then, we have people who want everyone vaccinated who will cancel if the cruise is not entirely vaccinated.  Either way, the cruise lines are in quite the pickle.  I think everyone just wants to be in 2019 again.

 

I don't think mandating vaccines will hurt business, most likely it will help business. Recent surveys by Royal Caribbean and even here on Cruise Critic show that over 80% of current customers prefer a fully vaccinated ship.  Since cruising has such a bad reputation of being a petrie dish (undeserved) in the non-cruising population, it would be easy to surmise that having a fully vaccinated ship would attract some of those people, perhaps even enough to cover the 20% who don't want fully vaccinated cruises.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Idk does the state of florida own the cruise ports? perhaps it doesnt matter what the rest of the state does. 

 

Reportedly DeSantis' press secretary said in an email that the ban applies to cruise ships.  Of course he could be wrong.

 

Edited by Shorewalk Holmes
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I can't imagine DeSantis' executive order holding up in court. The Supreme Court has already ruled that business have the right to serve the customers according to their beliefs. 

 

If a baker doesn't have to provide services to the LGBTQ community, or pharmacists don't have to fill prescriptions that are against their beliefs, it is going to be hard to prove that a business has to provide services to unvaccinated people, who are not even a protected class, if their belief is that unvaccinated people in their business is detrimental to their business model.

 

One of my children sent me a video of a bar in Denver that has made vaccines mandatory.  Apparently his business has skyrocketed because customers feel much safer in the bar. Maybe someone will take him to court and precedent will be set.

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Not to split hairs, but if the CDC says that the cruise lines can only sail from U.S. ports with fully vaccinated and negative tested passengers, and leave the method of documenting compliance up to the passenger and the cruise line, then technically the CDC and not the cruise lines are mandating proof of a vaccine. The new language in the cruise contract is really clear on who bears liability for testing positive once a passenger is on the ship if the CDC's rules are violated. State policies cannot constitutionally overrule federal rules, so regardless of what Florida's governor says, if the Feds say it is required, the discussion is ended.

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7 minutes ago, cured said:

One of my children sent me a video of a bar in Denver that has made vaccines mandatory.  Apparently his business has skyrocketed because customers feel much safer in the bar. Maybe someone will take him to court and precedent will be set.

It's nice to hear about a state where the governor is not meddling and is allowing businesses to do as they choose. 

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4 hours ago, Mikew0805 said:

Your "rights" end at my private property. You do not have freedom of speech, assembly, to bear arms, or whatever right it is that you think you have to be on private property to buy something... Restricting access to my private property is not Communist. Do you even understand what Communism is?

 

LOL! The CDC will never issue the approval for the vaccine. The FDA is responsible for that.

 

"Therefore, it is still experimental."  - Covid-19 vaccines are not experimental, and have not skipped any part of the trial stages. Making up your own facts?

 

We do not know how long the vaccine lasts yet. Again, creating your own facts. 

 

You use comparisons that make no sense.... until I read that you are here in Florida and couldn't care less about those around you. Now it makes perfect sense and is typical. 

 

 

 

 

The vaccines went through a 3 phase trial and received an emergency use order.  the phase 3 trials are still ongoing.  Until it is approved it is experimental.  Plus both the CDC and the WHO already said that the vaccine will diminish as time goes on....and that it looks like you will need a booster every year.  Those facts are not known, since the phase 3 trials are incomplete.  FDA will eventually approve it, but it will be another 2 years expected. Also expect a booster shot to be available. 

 

Communism and socialism is when the government takes away your rights and mandate medical decisions for you.  A vaccine is a medical decision not to be made by the government.  Not in this country, and the Governor of Florida understands that. 

 

Our elected officers such as President Biden shows no support for the vaccine with his actions thus further complicating the roll out of the vaccine.  

 

You may turn my business away at the door, but I can assure you, another business will take my money. 

 

As far as Florida, it was never proven that wearing a mask all day, prevents spreading Covid, or it saving lives.  however, it does help.  Someone without a mask is not killing anyone, but that is widely said on CNN and Dr. Fauchi, but never really answered when asked to show the science.  I'm ok with people wearing a mask around me....because the mask gives them a level of protection.  However, I have never bought into the belief, that I will kill others by my actions.  Lived long enough to know that was just propaganda and still is.  

 

I am not bragging about my mask.....the community I live in has a very low number of people wearing a mask.  I eat out, go to bars, go into stores for the last year, without a mask.  Most other people around me are doing the same thing.  

 

The difference in my belief and yours is that you want the government to control us, where my belief is that we can make our own decisions and at what level of risk we want.  

 

I don't think a vaccine should be mandatory to go on a ship.  I have my vaccine, and in my last year I have decided to live my life based on my own risk assessment, not some CNN fear mongering report.  But whatever you do, don't ask me to show medical records at your door.......not going to happen. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Joseph2017China said:

I don't think a vaccine should be mandatory to go on a ship.  I have my vaccine, and in my last year I have decided to live my life based on my own risk assessment, not some CNN fear mongering report.  But whatever you do, don't ask me to show medical records at your door.......not going to happen. 

 

 

Please do live your last year of life to the fullest!

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