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DeSantis could sink our chances of cruising out of Florida


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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NightOne said:

94% had identified comorbidities and the other 6% had suspected unidentified comorbidities

 

I think you need more explanation than just comorbidity stats.

 

People can live with diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. for decades. So what's your explanation for why those who got covid died at that particular time, as opposed to years later? 

 

Edited by Shorewalk Holmes
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31 minutes ago, NightOne said:

 

 

How about listening to the CDC's own data for a start. MATH not science.

 

I'm baffled by people who cannot look at statistics and take away the obvious points.

 

 


Ummm statistics are scientific evidence used in analysis 🧐, analysis done by scientists.....

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1 hour ago, Pratique said:

The executive order in Florida is so broadly worded that it is too problematic to split hairs on. Compare the Florida order to the Texas order, which is more precise and limited in scope. I agree the cruise lines could argue that they are not imposing the requirement and therefore the order doesn't apply to them. But who knows how this will play out.

I believe it was broadly worded on purpose to make it sound authoritative without actually having any enforceable teeth. Pure political theatre.

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11 minutes ago, orville99 said:

I believe it was broadly worded on purpose to make it sound authoritative without actually having any enforceable teeth. Pure political theatre.

On this point I agree.

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1 hour ago, cured said:

May I ask where you received your medical degree? And where you did your fellowships in epidemiology or a similar specialty? It would help to know your credentials to ascertain whether your assessment of the knowledge of the CDC and the WHO personnel is backed by your actual expertise in virology.

 

It doesn't take a medical degree for that CruiseCritic member to express the opinion that, based on performance, the CDC and WHO failed miserably.  Seriously, the CDC and WHO are vested first with disease Prevention, whilst losing that plateau, then disease Control.

 

Also, and this is genuine, when one questions the credentials of another, i.e., such as their medical degree, fellowships in epidemiology, etc., should the asserting inquirer present theirs?

 

IMO, the CDC and WHO have performed unsatisfactorily in this entire pandemic regard.  My litmus test is the extent of the count of world wide deaths, in countries of all forms of governance and of all political spectrum points.  Instead of trying to hide, conceal and dupe the origin of the virus, the virus should have been openly acknowledged, sourced, contained, quarantined, everywhere.  The virology of the virus should have forced from the source.  International and inter-country travel should have sealed, closed in a concrete level.

 

On a planetary basis, WHO had this responsibility.  It failed.

 

In the states, the CDC had this responsibility (the CDC "and Prevention").  It failed.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Joseph2017China said:

Now that’s pure fear talking.  I already survived 14 months without a vaccine.  Now I have it.  And I still go maskless!

But your original post stated this: "In the last year of my life" so blessings to you  since this is the last year of your life. Or did you mean the last year in general? We all have muddled through the last 14 months, not only you, maskless or not.

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Never before have we pushed a vaccine so hard because of "other people". If our fear of COVID is that it kills a small percent of unhealthy people, then what continues to be our concern if that small percent are now vaccinated? Constant override of freedoms for a "one-sized-fits-all" control.

  

3 hours ago, cured said:

One of my children sent me a video of a bar in Denver that has made vaccines mandatory.  Apparently his business has skyrocketed because customers feel much safer in the bar. Maybe someone will take him to court and precedent will be set.

 

What kind of soy-based, quinoa bar is this? I've been to multiple packed bars, in multiple states, and have conversed with dozens of people. I'll just say this is a comical statement. Although, I might be inclined to believe it more in Denver

 

3 hours ago, ticketsunlimited said:

After watching the documentary on HBO last night called “ The last cruise” about the princess cruise that had over 700 cases and 14 dead I am in no hurry to get on a cruise ship that Is not fully vaccinated. My wife was horrified.

Our choice and I respect anybody else’s decision to give it a try.

watch the show and let me know your thoughts. If there is one thing I learned from it I can now respect the delay these companies have implemented. An unvaccinated cruise ship can spiral out of control in a couple days.

 

Using one of the worst scenarios from a time when we didn't know anything about the virus, didn't have treatment or prevention, on a 14-day cruise to multiple countries that also didn't know, with a very old crowd.

 

What if only say 40% of that cruise got vaccinated? We also know 99.9% of those who are at risk. Now say those 14 people were covered, and no one died. Who cares about cases anymore?

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1 hour ago, TMLAalum said:

But your original post stated this: "In the last year of my life" so blessings to you  since this is the last year of your life. Or did you mean the last year in general? We all have muddled through the last 14 months, not only you, maskless or not.

He didn’t understand what you were saying, but I did.

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2 hours ago, cured said:

May I ask where you received your medical degree? And where you did your fellowships in epidemiology or a similar specialty? It would help to know your credentials to ascertain whether your assessment of the knowledge of the CDC and the WHO personnel is backed by your actual expertise in virology.

Where did you get yours? I doubt those on The View or CNN have degrees either, yet they spew their opinions as gospel. 
 

The problem is that the CDC and the WHO have become political organizations....cow towing to those that feed them money. If they don't tow the party line, their funding goes away.....casting doubt on anything they say. 

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2 hours ago, cured said:

Ahhh, so I thought.  Perhaps you graduated from that esteemed university, OAN, whose mascot is the fox.

And you graduated from some esteemed university with a degree in......"believing paid political hacks"?

 

what you aren't seeing here is that we all have our belief systems. Yours is different from mine. Why must you say "hateful" things to those who have beliefs different fro yours? Why can't "we" have civil discussions without calling each other names or casting aspersions? 
 

We all want to get back to "normal" and to cruise again. We all have an idea of what that might be, but our "politics" puts blinders on us all. Why can't we work together to come up with a mutually agreeable solution and not say nasty things to one another? Why must our politics force us to fight one another? Neither side is "right".....there is no "right" answer. Please, let's quit being so diversive and work toward a common goal......chair hogs! 😎

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Posted (edited)
On 4/13/2021 at 10:22 AM, ticketsunlimited said:

While we all thought DeSantis was coming to our rescue by suing the Government to allow cruising out of Florida he throws in his own personal monkey wrench.

He could push cruising out of Florida back months if not a year by not allowing the cruising companies to make their own decision to cruise with only vaccinated passengers and crew to start.  This should be the decision of the Companies running their business and the customers using their service.  

DeSantis’ press office on Monday asserted that his recent executive order barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccinated customers extends to cruise lines operating in Florida.

This is not going to go well I am afraid.

It is good to see he is protecting peoples rights, it is sad to see so many ready to give up their freedoms for a cruise. No thanks!

Edited by skywonder
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15 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:


I might not always agree with all you say, but I have to say that you say it with flair. You make me laugh but not in a discouraging way.
 

When it is time to cruise I’ll buy the first round. No graph needed for that. 

THIS is what we all need.....to disagree without being disagreeable!

 

I would hate to live in a world where everyone was the same. We are interesting since we all are different. Let's try to be difference, yet understanding. Why is it so hard to be "nice" or "polite" to one another any more?

 

No one is 100% right or 100% wrong.....the truth lies somewhere in between. Can't we compromise and get back to cruising again?

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On 4/13/2021 at 2:31 PM, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Well I'm not sure about a government executive action for or against a vaccine, but they damn sure have controlled our lives w/ regards to the openings and closings of business' and mandating masks and so forth. It's kind of weird reading that a Gov should leave business' along and allow them to make their own policies when for the last year this simply has not been the case. And nationwide too. 

 

Having said this, to date, there has been NO policy issued by any cruise company requiring vaccines from a cruise ship leaving a US port. 

Great post and great point!

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47 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

It is a freedom about as much as eating out at a restaurant, going to a movie, or attending church services. Royal has NOT made any commitment to require a vaccine for their future cruises out of US ports. But to answer your question, they have no right to require something that is not proven to be worthy at this point. Perhaps you would chose that they not allow people of color, or people w/ handicap, or people w/ autism to go on a cruise. How about they just say, this cruise is for straight people only, or have a Christian only cruise. Bottomline, dividing the population based on a vaccine is moraly wrong. 

 

And if you want to go on a cruise with vaxed folks only, book one out of Nasau. 

 

Are non vaccinated folks a protected class yet?

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So for all the posters on this thread who feel vaccines by RCCL should not be a requirement to cruise, how would YOU manage a ship that ended up with cases of Covid aboard? 

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6 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Are non vaccinated folks a protected class yet?

 

Of course as are vaccinated folks. As much as some wish it to happen, nothing has changed. Perhaps the real question is "Are vaccinated folks a priveleged class?" And of course the answer is no as well. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, skywonder said:

If you are so afraid then stay home and let the rest of us live our lives, it is as simple as that. Never give up freedom for safety. If you want to make that choice then that should be on you, period! Oh and the cruise lines like Royal are being forced into all of this but good try on spinning it.

One can just as easily turn that statement around. If you are too afraid to get a vaccine, then stay home and don't vacation anywhere that requires one.

 

Royal isn't being forced into anything. Their #1 priority is their bottom line for their investors and the health of the company.  They have done their studies and the vast majority of people want fully vaccinated cruises.

 

There are most likely issues of insurance, ports of call, and many other decisions the cruise line needs to make.

Edited by cured
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2 minutes ago, cured said:

One can just as easily turn that statement around. If you are too afraid to get a vaccine, then stay home and don't vacation anywhere that requires one.

 

Royal isn't being forced into anything. Their #1 priority is their bottom line for their investors and the health of the company.  They have done their studies and the vast majority of people want fully vaccinated cruises.

 

That line of excuse has been used many times for many reasons to discriminate against many people. From hotels, to lunch counters, from busses to banking. It never works well long term. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

That line of excuse has been used many times for many reasons to discriminate against many people. From hotels, to lunch counters, from busses to banking. It never works well long term. 

 

Requiring a health and safety protocol is not even close to discriminatory practices.  Apples to oranges and sad that you think it is the same.

 

If it true, then cruise lines could not forbid pregnant women past a certain date from cruising, could not forbid infants of a certain age from cruising, could not forbid people over 300 pounds from buying tickets to the water park tickets, Ifly, could not forbid short people from riding slides, and any other health protocol out there.

 

It is not discrimation against pregnant women, people of size, little people, etc.  It is a safety rule.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, cured said:

Requiring a health and safety protocol is not even close to discriminatory practices.  Apples to oranges and sad that you think it is the same.

 

If it true, then cruise lines could not forbid pregnant women past a certain date from cruising, could not forbid infants of a certain age from cruising, could not forbid people over 300 pounds from buying tickets to the water park tickets, Ifly, could not forbid short people from riding slides, and any other health protocol out there.

 

It is not discrimation against pregnant women, people of size, little people, etc.  It is a safety rule.

 

What's sad is that you simply do not understand nor care to understand those that wish to not be vaccinated... only for your selfish reasoning of enjoying yourself on a cruise ship. Do you extend this need to attend a movie? Have dinner out? Do you require your Uber drive to be vaccinated? How about your dentist's assistant? Is he/she vaccinated? Think about your daily life and the people that come & go within it. And then ask yourself, "Why am I demanding my cruise ship to be 100% vaxed when others in my life aren't?" 

 

Dividing people into two classes is not a good thing. 

Edited by Goodtime Cruizin
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, cured said:

Who is forcing the cruise lines to require vaccines?  Not the CDC so far.  The cruise lines made those decisions on their own. 80+% of people polled have indicated they want fully vaccinated cruises. Vaccinated cruises are good business right now.

 

If you don't want the vaccine, that is absolutely your right to choose that path. But face the truth that there is the possibility that you may be limited in what you can participate in.

 

 

 

Come on... don't be so naive... they're wanting people to be vaxed for the same reason vaxed cruisers want it.... to appease CDC in hopes of opening up revenue streams... all at the expense of others. BTW, those numbers will eventually shift. There is no way that the "80%" you've mentioned can support RCG. They might float a couple of ships for a couple of months, but you can't be real to think that these same 80% can keep RCG afloat w/ all their ships cruising. 

Edited by Goodtime Cruizin
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48 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

I am not the of the opinion you are looking for, but I will bite anyway.

 

They will get off the ship and go home and be fine, just like the 10 people who went to a Starbucks in your town today who got Covid 19.  One of them who weighs 300 pounds and has diabetes may end up in your emergency room at the local hospital tonight, and go thru a month of heck, if he/she is lucky.  

 

What port is going to be scared of a covid positive patient.  Why is a cruise ship a place where you would freak out if 10 people had Covid, when the mall, Starbucks, a BLM riot, or other place where people get Covid be a big deal?

 

 

You People are so simple minded that you are stuck in a video of a cruise ship over a year ago.  The world has changed.  

 

Keep hiding under your blanket.  

 

Or live you life, but quit trying to control everyone else’s.

 

jc

Bravo, a lot of people on here do not seem to understand this. Too many have been manipulated into believing otherwise. I'm glad I do not live in fear like that. Those that do, really do need to stay inside and keep hiding under their blankets.

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11 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

What's sad is that you simply do not understand nor care to understand those that wish to not be vaccinated... only for your selfish reasoning of enjoying yourself on a cruise ship. Do you extend this need to attend a movie? Have dinner out? Do you require your Uber drive to be vaccinated? How about your dentist's assistant? Is he/she vaccinated? Think about your daily life and the people that come & go within it. And then ask yourself, "Why am I demanding my cruise ship to be 100% vaxed when others in my life aren't?" 

 

Dividing people into two classes is not a good thing. 

Just this week I have canceled my existing cruises and have not booked anymore, so not for my selfish wish to cruise.  I am not jonesing to cruise like so many.

 

I have said over and over again that I support everyone's right to choose whether or not to get vaccinated. 

 

But if you want that respect, you also have to respect the rights of a business to make the choice that is best for them.

 

What's sad is that you simply do not understand nor care to understand those that wish to be vaccinated and enjoy a fully vaccinated ship... only for your selfish reasoning of enjoying yourself on a cruise ship. And sir, you are in the vast minority. 

 

Funny you ask about the mundane day to day life things. Just last week on our local nextdoor group, I saw several requests by different people asking for recommendations for vaccinated plumbers, floor installers, and kitchen remodeling professionals.  So yes, it is a thing and becoming more so as more people become vaccinated.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

 

Or live you life, but quit trying to control everyone else’s.

 

jc

You may want to practice what you preach. You have the right to lobby for an unvaccinated ship, but the 80+% of the people who want a vaccinated ship have an equal right to lobby for a vaccinated ship. 

 

You are trying to control what fits your narrative. 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Come on... don't be so naive... they're wanting people to be vaxed for the same reason vaxed cruisers want it.... to appease CDC in hopes of opening up revenue streams... all at the expense of others. BTW, those numbers will eventually shift. There is no way that the "80%" you've mentioned can support RCG. They might float a couple of ships for a couple of months, but you can't be real to think that these same 80% can keep RCG afloat w/ all their ships cruising. 

You are 100 percent correct. Excellent points.

Edited by knight2096
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