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Carnival’s CEO states that they will not require vaccinations


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8 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

There are a few folks who are indeed, um, aggressive about their stance that everyone should get the vaccine.  I think everyone should too, but I generally just shrug and smile when someone says they won't be getting it.

 

The main concern I have is that if enough people don't get vaccinated, the disease will linger with higher prevalence in the general population, and that threatens the health of people who legitimately can't get vaccinated for health reasons.

 

I also suspect it also means that eventually a large portion of the unvaccinated population will get COVID anyway.  Which will have long-term impacts not just on them, potentially, but drives up health care costs.  And everyone ends up paying more in insurance or co-pays.

 

IMHO, enough people are vaccinated in the US (including me and those close to me) that I do not feel personally threatened by the virus.  And it looks like eventually I'll be able to travel normally to the rest of the world for business and pleasure, like I used to.

While I agree with everything you posted, I can’t ignore the the possibility that there may be negative consequences from the vaccine. With that in mind I don’t judge or try to influence in any way. Those of us that have the vaccine will deal with anything that may happen just like those that are not vaccinated will deal with their choice.

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1 hour ago, OceanZena said:

This is terrifying. $100 bucks in exchange to take an untested, unapproved shot into your body that are already shown to cause blood clots, paralysis and death and may cause cancer or other various aliments and diseases later in life. Even for $20,000 I wouldn't do it. No amount of money in the world is worth my health. 

They had a skit on SNL a few weeks back on this very topic - funny (and scary) as hell!

 

Untested - what universe do you reside in. Statistically, people would be foolhardy not to go the "untested/unapproved" route - given the downside of actually contracting COVID. That's the devil I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ! 

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5 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

They had a skit on SNL a few weeks back on this very topic - funny (and scary) as hell!

 

Untested - what universe do you reside in. Statistically, people would be foolhardy not to go the "untested/unapproved" route - given the downside of actually contracting COVID. That's the devil I DON'T WANT TO KNOW ! 

It is untested. I don't know why you're denying that. Look, if this were a tried and tested drug that had long term testing before release, I would take it in a heartbeat. Do you really think us who are hesitant to take the shot are hoping this pandemic lasts forever? We're not. 

 

I simply choose to wait and see what's going to happen with the vaccinated population down the road and I think it's a very logical choice to make. I just can't understand why some are coming down so hard on us for being cautious, especially where our health is concerned. 

 

If in a few years there's no TV commercials with lawyers saying "If you or a loved one experienced adverse effects, disability or death from the Covid-19 vaccination, you may be entitled to significant compensation" then i'll think more about getting the shot. But until then, it's a no go. 

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18 minutes ago, OceanZena said:

It is untested. I don't know why you're denying that. Look, if this were a tried and tested drug that had long term testing before release, I would take it in a heartbeat. Do you really think us who are hesitant to take the shot are hoping this pandemic lasts forever? We're not. 

 

I simply choose to wait and see what's going to happen with the vaccinated population down the road and I think it's a very logical choice to make. I just can't understand why some are coming down so hard on us for being cautious, especially where our health is concerned. 

 

If in a few years there's no TV commercials with lawyers saying "If you or a loved one experienced adverse effects, disability or death from the Covid-19 vaccination, you may be entitled to significant compensation" then i'll think more about getting the shot. But until then, it's a no go. 

 

What definition of "long term testing" would satisfy you in this case ... 1 year, 2-3, 5+ ? (While Rome burns)

 

BTW - the vaccine (ones in use in US) have an excellent safety record - and nothing is a zero risk. Perhaps we need more than a hundred million+  people to make a good call. 😉 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

What definition of "long term testing" would satisfy you in this case ... 1 year, 2-3, 5+ ? (While Rome burns)

 

BTW - the vaccine (ones in use in US) have an excellent safety record - and nothing is a zero risk. Perhaps we need more than a hundred million+  people to make a good call. 😉 

 

 

How about Pfizer's definition of "long term testing":

 

"Estimated Study Completion Date:  April 6, 2023"


https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728

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...and in the interim we could have 580,000 deaths x 3 years= 1,740,000 deaths plus the number of persons who didn't die in the interim because they were vaccinated and protected. Not to mention the extended toll on the Country's economy due to further slowdowns over 3 years because we were waiting for a 3 year test program to conclude before the vaccination was given to the general public.

 

 Is that your logic?

Edited by Stallion
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I know people who have died from this, and I know several more who are wrestling with long term aftereffects from the infection.

 

I've seen enough to know that this isn't your grandmother's "flu".

 

Tom

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19 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

How about Pfizer's definition of "long term testing":

 

"Estimated Study Completion Date:  April 6, 2023"


https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728

 

That's good to know. I'm glad that I can be a part of their guinea pig experimentation in the meantime.  🙂

 

Tom

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26 minutes ago, Stallion said:

...and in the interim we could have 580,000 deaths x 3 years= 1,740,000 deaths plus the number of persons who didn't die in the interim because they were vaccinated and protected. Not to mention the extended toll on the Country's economy due to further slowdowns over 3 years because we were waiting for a 3 year test program to conclude before the vaccination was given to the general public.

 

 Is that your logic?

Do you really think that we will have the same amount of deaths from the first year over the next 2? That's some warped logic.

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That calculation was based upon the poster's scenario where the United States would wait for the completion of a 3 year trial to make the vaccine widely available. Yes I think 240,000,000 vaccinations including 82% of  Seniors and 55% of those over 18 is largely responsible for the current decrease in cases and deaths

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1 minute ago, Stallion said:

Covid is decreasing where the vaccines have been widely injected

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Not true, example:   Seychelles.  They have passed Israel and are #2 in worldwide vaccination behind Gibraltar.  Gibraltar has the second highest death rate on the planet (2,791/Million).  But Seychelles is catching up fast (565 cases/Million 7 day rolling average).


World Vaccination leaders:


https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-12-25..latest&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=total_vaccinations_per_hundred&Metric=Vaccine+doses&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=ISR~SYC~ARE~GBR~BHR~USA~GIB~FLK~CYM~CHL~SMR

 

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Just a bunch of nonsense. Gibraltar has a total population of 33,000 and has had 94 deaths total,-and guess what those vaccinations must work because deaths are now almost nonexistent. They have only 4 active cases and only 1 critical. No deaths since March 14.  Thanks for proving my point

 

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/gibraltar/

Edited by Stallion
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22 minutes ago, OceanZena said:

And fear mongering.

Cracks me up when people who are call this vaccine an "untested, experimental chemical" and talk about "blood clots, paralysis and death and may cause cancer or other various aliments and diseases later in life" then accuse others of fearmongering. 😄

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20 minutes ago, Stallion said:

That calculation was based upon the poster's scenario where the United States would wait for the completion of a 3 year trial to make the vaccine widely available. Yes I think 240,000,000 vaccinations including 82% of  Seniors and 55% of those over 18 is largely responsible for the current decrease in cases and deaths

I didn't go reread all the posts but I don't remember seeing where they said wait 3 years to make it widely available. Only that they would like more info on long term issues before "they" got the shot.  

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To put a few things in perspective on how the US population thinks and "science" works, a meme I read made it all very clear. Rover discovered bacteria on Mars and our "scientists" declare there was life on Mars. But, that can declare life on Earth when they hear the heart of an unborn child. This is the science that people believe in here. It is kind of ridiculous. This mentality translates down to covid, vaccines, anti-vaxxers, etc. 

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10 minutes ago, Stallion said:

Just a bunch of nonsense. Gibraltar has a total population of 33,000 and has had 94 deaths total,-and guess what those vaccinations must work because deaths are now almost nonexistent

 

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/gibraltar/

I bet the 94 families would like to hear that you think their deaths are "nonsense".  

94/33000 is 0.28% of Gibraltar's entire population.  Though apparently Hungary just passed them in death rate, putting Gibraltar at #2 deadliest.

 

For comparison, in the US the number is 0.18% nearly half of what they saw in Gibraltar.

 

Either way, take a look at Seychelles, where they have world leading vaccination rate, and stubbornly high case and death rate.

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24 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

I bet the 94 families would like to hear that you think their deaths are "nonsense".  

94/33000 is 0.28% of Gibraltar's entire population.  Though apparently Hungary just passed them in death rate, putting Gibraltar at #2 deadliest.

 

For comparison, in the US the number is 0.18% nearly half of what they saw in Gibraltar.

 

Either way, take a look at Seychelles, where they have world leading vaccination rate, and stubbornly high case and death rate.

No the nonsense comment was directed at you. What are the Covid stats from Timbuktu? Everybody is dying to hear about these miniscule countries that have no correlation. The facts show Gibraltar has the 2nd highest vaccination rate in the world and has no deaths since March 14. I'd say that a pretty great recommendation to get vaccinated

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2 hours ago, bamaone said:

While I agree with everything you posted, I can’t ignore the the possibility that there may be negative consequences from the vaccine. With that in mind I don’t judge or try to influence in any way. Those of us that have the vaccine will deal with anything that may happen just like those that are not vaccinated will deal with their choice.

there are many more who will have a serious or life threatening issue from eating a peanut than from getting this vaccine. food allergies are way more deadly than vaccines.

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Absolutely NOT

 

So once again-you are going back to the wait 3 years and completion of the trials  BEFORE giving vaccine to general population. The vaccines have already saved hundreds of thousands of lives. In fact, the evidence establishes that deaths rates are plummeting wherever vaccinations are the highest

Edited by Stallion
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18 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

I bet the 94 families would like to hear that you think their deaths are "nonsense".  

94/33000 is 0.28% of Gibraltar's entire population.  Though apparently Hungary just passed them in death rate, putting Gibraltar at #2 deadliest.

 

For comparison, in the US the number is 0.18% nearly half of what they saw in Gibraltar.

 

Either way, take a look at Seychelles, where they have world leading vaccination rate, and stubbornly high case and death rate.

I believe the point was that your analysis was "nonsense".  Whatever deaths that occurred prior to the availability of a vaccine are unfortunate, but have no relevance to the efficiency of the vaccine once distributed.

 

Your point about the Seychelles is interesting.  It contrasts quite strongly with Israel, for example, which has similar vaccination figures (total %, rate of vaccination, etc).  And according to the data available, they had practically no case load prior to Jan 2021 (and zero deaths).  Their death rate seems to have dropped off recently, but it is a very noisy and stair-steppy graph.  Which tells me the data is not reliable.  They have a population of about 100,000, and maybe they have a very porous immigration system, which is allowing visitors to drive up their local case load in spite of the vaccination rate.  Or maybe the vaccine they are using is not an effective one?  They started using Sinopharm, it seems, but have also started using Astra-Zeneca.

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3 minutes ago, Stallion said:

No the nonsense comment was directed at you. What are the Covid stats from Timbuktu? Everybody is dying to hear about these miniscule countries that have no correlation. The facts show Gibraltar has the 2nd highest vaccination rate in the world and has no deaths since March 14. I'd say that a pretty great recommendation to get vaccinated

The stats are reported on the exact website you quoted:  Worldometer. 

 

The problem with Gibraltar is that their high death rate suggests, nearly the entire island was already infected.  Is the vaccine giving them immunity or recovery from prior infection?  It's hard to draw any conclusion.

 

Seychelles on the other hand, has not had a large outbreak until now, and their high vaccination rate doesn't seem to be helping much if at all.

 

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3 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

The stats are reported on the exact website you quoted:  Worldometer. 

 

The problem with Gibraltar is that their high death rate suggests, nearly the entire island was already infected.  Is the vaccine giving them immunity or recovery from prior infection?  It's hard to draw any conclusion.

 

Seychelles on the other hand, has not had a large outbreak until now, and their high vaccination rate doesn't seem to be helping much if at all.

 

You are comparing apples to oranges since the Seychelles use the Chinese-made Sinopharm vaccine which even the Chinese have questioned. 

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