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Carnival’s CEO states that they will not require vaccinations


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21 minutes ago, silversneakers said:

You can still contract COVID even with the vaccine but your symptoms may be less severe.  The vaccines are 90% effective. Because Carnival caters to many families with children, the issue will be when the children are required to vaccinate.

 

Children are exempt with some of the lines enforcing this rule and I think they should be exempt, assuming the rule should ever be put into place, whether by Carnival or the U.S. itself- the other aspect of your concern I think is a bit of a false argument though. If the symptoms aren't severe are you really going to notice them as COVID or just maybe tired because you stayed up too late- are you really going to go be tested for COVID because you feel a little under the weather? I wouldn't and especially given that I'm vaccinated. I'd just assume it was something else, take an ibuprofen and get on with the day. In addition a ten percent chance is substantially less than a one hundred percent chance. That's a bit of the rub with that contention, the idea that any chance at all is the same as a one hundred percent chance during exposure. And that any symptoms are the same as a full blown case that lands one in ICU. The less chance there is of contracting a full case of COVID the less chance of upset. The problem comes when someone develops obvious full blown symptoms, is tested on the ship, is positive and the ship turns around to go home. That's my concern. If Carnival can say, Hey, if someone unvaccinated gets a full blown case we'll just quarantine them in their room and the vacation goes on, then okay- although I think there's still the risk of media exposure that could hurt or hobble the industry again but okay that's on Carnival itself- I'm not a stock holder, lol. I'm not concerned if someone who choses not to get vaccinated gets COVID but I am concerned about it disrupting my vacation.  

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3 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Have any proof to back that false claim up? It is easier to toilet train a toddler than some deniers, however.

Have you been in public?  Cloth masks are useless. If your glasses fog, your mask is not on right.  Paper masks need to be changed every few hours.  Once you touch the facial part of your mask with your non sterile hand, it is contaminated.  Masks over beards are useless unless the full beard is inside the mask.  Masks placed on non sterile surfaces, dangled on a chain are contaminated.  Cloth masks should be washed in a machine daily. I have seen some more filthy than my floor wipe.  

There is a reason medical professionals are fitted with masks in the OR and they are one use only.

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4 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

The number of people infected in the US is a minority: 31 million out of  population of ~330 million, or ~10%.

 

So yes, they self-infected to a great extent.  They also cross-infected family, friends, and co-workers who had been trying to stay safe but let their guard down.

So the "rules"  never worked. 

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6 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

 

There is a reason medical professionals are fitted with masks in the OR and they are one use only.

Because masks WORK. Everything else you listed are flimsy excuses.

 

If one is low quality, wear two. Easy. Try a face shield. Do something other than complain. Complaining has never stopped a virus.

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4 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Have any proof to back that false claim up? It is easier to toilet train a toddler than some deniers, however.

Have you got proof that 98% of the public is wearing approved masks correctly?

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On 4/14/2021 at 9:31 AM, ProgRockCruiser said:

Paywall won't let me read it.

Will you require passengers to be vaccinated, like Norwegian Cruise Line just announced it will?
No, absolutely. We would encourage everyone to get vaccinated, but today vaccines are not accessible to everyone. In some places it is illegal to mandate. And we respect personal choice and personal liberty. So we’ll follow what the regulations are wherever it is.

 

 
Even when the rules about vaccinations may go harder against your industry?
We stand to do the thing that’s in the best interest of public health. However, if vaccines are not mandated for other forms of travel and tourism, then we’re not sure that it makes sense to mandate them for cruises either. We think fair and level treatment, serving the best interest of public health, is what we should be about.

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5 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

 Once you touch the facial part of your mask with your non sterile hand, it is contaminated.  

Wait, what????? I thought the virus didn't spread via surface contact. Next you'll be claiming we shouldn't shake hands. 

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I saw a Congressional hearing today asking questions today and Dr. Fauci refused to answer. Oops! I used the 'F' word. Sorry.

 

They did say that they wanted the middle seat kept open on aircraft. Sounds like back sliding to me to shut off debate about why planes are unrestricted and cruise ships can't operate. I could deal with 1/3rd of the cabins empty. 

 

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18 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

They don't and the CDC, without any facts, just stated that by eliminating middle seats, you can reduce the spread of covid by 50%. This one made me laugh last night when I saw it. They have no facts to prove the statement. They have not tested any airline passengers to prove the statement. They tried to use "facts" and misused their own comment. Yes, if there are 3 seats and you eliminate the middle one, you reduce the chance by 33% not 50% (that is where their "facts" were wrong). By having the middle seats used, you "increase your chances by 50%."

 

This stupid statement from the CDC yesterday just goes to show how useless the CDC is in a pandemic. They are using 5th grade hypothetic math as their basis for public safety. They are not using data. What makes it even worse, the blind lemmings believing everything the CDC says is fact and backed with science. This one statement alone made by them proves they are using no data or science.

BRAVO! Great post, I'm glad others see the light. The CDC seems to be nothing more then the blind leading the blind.

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Posted (edited)

I wonder what the great men who founded this great nation would think of all this. Oh wait...

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

 

Edited by skywonder
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15 hours ago, regoodwinjr said:

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing."

 

I guess you would call this famous scientist "a science denying tin foil hat wearing moron" for questioning everything.  

LOL! Nice!

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2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

"Cruising is not a constitutional right. Never has been, never will be." Blerkone

If you think that statement was just about cruising then I can not explain it to you.

 

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion. Edmund Burke.

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9 hours ago, skywonder said:

I wonder what the great men who founded this great nation would think of all this. Oh wait...

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

 

 

George Washington forced his troops to be vaccinated against smallpox.  What did Franklin have to say about that?  Or could you be misunderstanding his words and they're being taken sorely out of context?

 

"

WITTES: He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so he actually meant purchase a little temporary safety very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.

SIEGEL: So far from being a pro-privacy quotation, if anything, it's a pro-taxation and pro-defense spending quotation.

WITTES: It is a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security. It means, in context, not quite the opposite of what it's almost always quoted as saying but much closer to the opposite than to the thing that people think it means."

 

https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century#:~:text=Benjamin Franklin once said%3A "Those who would give,of new technology and concerns about government surveillance.

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9 hours ago, skywonder said:

I wonder what the great men who founded this great nation would think of all this. Oh wait...

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

 

He was asked when can we get our liberties back. He answered he doesnt think of them as our liberties he thinks of it differently. Reply, that's obvious.

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14 hours ago, inettrvlr said:

Will you require passengers to be vaccinated, like Norwegian Cruise Line just announced it will?
No, absolutely. We would encourage everyone to get vaccinated, but today vaccines are not accessible to everyone. In some places it is illegal to mandate. And we respect personal choice and personal liberty. So we’ll follow what the regulations are wherever it is.

 

 
Even when the rules about vaccinations may go harder against your industry?
We stand to do the thing that’s in the best interest of public health. However, if vaccines are not mandated for other forms of travel and tourism, then we’re not sure that it makes sense to mandate them for cruises either. We think fair and level treatment, serving the best interest of public health, is what we should be about.

Mr. Donald is being disingenuous.  All Americans will be eligible to receive a vaccine as of April 19th.  It is expected that there will be sufficient supplies of vaccine to vaccinate all Americans who want one by the beginning of June.  It is NOT "illegal" to mandate vaccines anywhere in the US at this time.  "We respect personal choice and personal liberty": so when Carnival mandates masks, social distancing, testing and contact tracing in order to avoid a vaccine requirement, will cruisers be able to cry personal choice and liberty to avoid those?  Should prove to be very interesting indeed.

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17 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

only in America because people didn't follow them

Even folks like myself who did follow all the rules caught COVID.  None of the rules (or treatments) currently in place btw are designed to STOP the virus they are only intended to SLOW its pace.  

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13 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Mr. Donald is being disingenuous.  All Americans will be eligible to receive a vaccine as of April 19th.  It is expected that there will be sufficient supplies of vaccine to vaccinate all Americans who want one by the beginning of June.  It is NOT "illegal" to mandate vaccines anywhere in the US at this time.  "We respect personal choice and personal liberty": so when Carnival mandates masks, social distancing, testing and contact tracing in order to avoid a vaccine requirement, will cruisers be able to cry personal choice and liberty to avoid those?  Should prove to be very interesting indeed.

Im pretty sure he wasnt just talking about Americans as not all Cruise passengers that leave from US ports are American.  While it may not be "illegal" to mandate vaccines in the US im pretty sure its not "legal" either otherwise it would probably have been done by now.  That being said its always easy to mandate people do something, HOW you get them to follow your mandate seems to be the overlooked question.   I see it everyday here where the Govt "asks" people to follow the health guidelines and social media lurkers blast them for not "mandating it". 

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5 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Im pretty sure he wasnt just talking about Americans as not all Cruise passengers that leave from US ports are American.  While it may not be "illegal" to mandate vaccines in the US im pretty sure its not "legal" either otherwise it would probably have been done by now.  That being said its always easy to mandate people do something, HOW you get them to follow your mandate seems to be the overlooked question.   I see it everyday here where the Govt "asks" people to follow the health guidelines and social media lurkers blast them for not "mandating it". 

I agree that all cruise passengers are not US residents, but the overwhelming majority are.  I understand that cruise passengers from other countries may continue to struggle to get a vaccine.  COVID vaccines are already being mandated by employers as well as some universities.  The EEOC has come out and said that employers may legally mandate vaccines.  Yes, mandates can (and likely will be) challenged, but legal precedent in support of mandates is already there.  My point was that Mr. Donald made an inaccurate statement when he said that vaccine mandates are illegal in many places.

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1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

I agree that all cruise passengers are not US residents, but the overwhelming majority are.  I understand that cruise passengers from other countries may continue to struggle to get a vaccine.  COVID vaccines are already being mandated by employers as well as some universities.  The EEOC has come out and said that employers may legally mandate vaccines.  Yes, mandates can (and likely will be) challenged, but legal precedent in support of mandates is already there.  My point was that Mr. Donald made an inaccurate statement when he said that vaccine mandates are illegal in many places.

Legal precedents for vaccine mandates only exist for fully approved vaccines and right now the vaccines are only operating on an EUA authorizations so there is a question whether any mandate is legal. Also, current legal precedents for mandates only exist for state governments and as a condition for employment. None exists for businesses to require them for customers.  Norwegian wants the CDC to require vaccines so the federal government will be the one that has to defend it in court.

 

 

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