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Carnival’s CEO states that they will not require vaccinations


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32 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

70 isn't a magic number and even that might be tough to hit if too many people refuse the vaccine.

I don't think its going to be hard to hit in majority of states-I think there might be some problems in socially conservative area with high evangelical numbers. The evidence from the other states should be persuasive by then. Note: over 80.7% of Americans over 65 have already received the vaccine

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10 minutes ago, hurricane0226 said:

what about if you have been vaccinated, and then get covid then there is an outbreak even

though everyone was vaccinated, then what, quarantine the ship? 

If there is an outbreak, the cruise is over. Does it matter?

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1 minute ago, Stallion said:

I don't think its going to be hard to hit in majority of states-I think there might be some problems in socially conservative area with high evangelical numbers. The evidence from the other states should be persuasive by then. Note: over 80.7% of Americans over 65 have already received the vaccine

And kudos for them. Now more and more cases are showing up in younger people who lack wisdom.

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I really think Carnival is happy just waiting for the U.S. to keep getting vaccinated in numbers high enough to end this pandemic. Yes, it is worldwide but, we have to get our own house in order first. Just like on an airplane, we're instructed to put on our own oxygen mask first. Millions more will get vaccinated in the next few weeks. April and May will be a huge factor in the progress we make. Wringing our hands or beating a dead horse don't help. I can't help but think that as the number vaccinated keeps rising that the number of new cases will drop. Surely the vaccination percentage will plateau at some point but I think 50-60% is attainable soon. Speculate, guess, rant all you want but, you're not getting on a cruise ship in the U.S. anytime soon. Carnival cancelled June and July will likely follow. Memorial Day and July 4th are holidays but they will be milestones on the progress we make in ending the pandemic. Previous pandemics have lasted 1-2 years so most of us will survive this. Carnival is a mass market numbers game. They want their ships full, having fun and generating money. They have a business model that has worked for years and they don't want the CDC or us to tell them how to run the cruise business. The numbers don't lie. Get vaccinated, stay safe and see you on the ship. Mine leaves Oct. 17, 2021, Glory/NOLA.

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8 hours ago, Stallion said:

I don't think its going to be hard to hit in majority of states-I think there might be some problems in socially conservative area with high evangelical numbers. The evidence from the other states should be persuasive by then. Note: over 80.7% of Americans over 65 have already received the vaccine

I hope you are right, but I think you are being overly optimistic. There is unfortunately a political divide that seems to be having voters for one of the political parties much less likely to sign up for their vaccinations. 

 

Least Vaccinated U.S. Counties Have Something in Common: Trump Voters - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

And one of the things noted in the article is that this is more likely in younger people than senior citizens. So, even though your statistic for seniors is very good, it does not project to younger people.

 

One quotation from the article that particularly struck me was the one about it being heart breaking to have vaccines stuck in the freezer going unused while the Governor of Michigan begged for more vaccines.

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10 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Perhaps only the people who were in close contact with anyone who tested positive. Maybe the cruise lines will have available one of the tests that would show if you had been exposed to covid in the past few hours 

Perfect. Passengers in starboard cabins get checked every even hour and port passengers on every odd hour. 😉  

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10 hours ago, Stallion said:

I don't think its going to be hard to hit in majority of states-I think there might be some problems in socially conservative area with high evangelical numbers. The evidence from the other states should be persuasive by then. Note: over 80.7% of Americans over 65 have already received the vaccine

It also varies by age and other factors.

 

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/dashboard/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-dashboard/

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14 minutes ago, Cruisin 4 Ever said:

No it doesn't. I'm not nervous about getting Covid as I will be vaccinated. I'm concerned about what would happen if there were an outbreak which would be more likely if there are unvaccinated guests on board. I wouldn't want to spend my 2 week cruise stuck in my cabin

You don't have to worry about being stuck in a cabin because that caused most of the deaths on cruise ships.

 

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1 hour ago, regoodwinjr said:


Surveys are limited in what they can show us and are problematic for predicting the future.  But just for the sake of argument, adding the Totals for “only if required” and “definitely not” would seem to present a problem for those predicting 85%-90% vaccination required to achieve herd immunity.

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13 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

But the problem happens if Carnival is the only main stream line based out of the US that will not require adults to be vaccinated. This would increase the number of unprotected exponentially because Carnival would be their only option besides possibly MSC.

You know, you scare me.  Because you got a point and you had me thinking about this a lot.  You statement makes some assumptions but is a possibility.  Again no one knows what the first day of sailing will be like and what restrictions each line will have. But I can see people that usually sail with other lines finding any line that doesn't restrict them and going for it.  I wonder how many  unprotected additional people would be on any given ship on a given sail date.  Would it upset the herd immunity that needs to be on the sailing? 

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11 minutes ago, mredandchis said:

You know, you scare me.  Because you got a point and you had me thinking about this a lot.  You statement makes some assumptions but is a possibility.  Again no one knows what the first day of sailing will be like and what restrictions each line will have. But I can see people that usually sail with other lines finding any line that doesn't restrict them and going for it.  I wonder how many  unprotected additional people would be on any given ship on a given sail date.  Would it upset the herd immunity that needs to be on the sailing? 

Didn't mean to scare you Ed, but is definitely something to think about.  At this point everything is up in the air and nothing is concrete about when cruising will resume out of the US, let alone what the individual cruise line's policies are going to be. 

It was originally assumed that they would have a united front and the policies would put everyone on an even playing field, but if current policies in place for the non US based embarkations hold true, then my assumption will hold true as well.  RCI and Celebrity currently wants adults and crew to be vaccinated and kids to test negative.  NCL wants everyone to be vaccinated, so that eliminates kids being on board.  Carnival is saying that vaccines will more than likely not be required. 

 

The sooner that cruising resumes, the higher the probability of my proposal becomes reality since Carnival would more than likely be the only line out of the big 3 to not make vaccinations a requirement. If things get stretched out and nothing happens till November with the CSO expiring and the CDC not extending it, then who knows what the landscape will be in 7+ months.  But, it is food for thought.

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1 hour ago, SNJCruisers said:

Didn't mean to scare you Ed, but is definitely something to think about.  At this point everything is up in the air and nothing is concrete about when cruising will resume out of the US, let alone what the individual cruise line's policies are going to be. 

It was originally assumed that they would have a united front and the policies would put everyone on an even playing field, but if current policies in place for the non US based embarkations hold true, then my assumption will hold true as well.  RCI and Celebrity currently wants adults and crew to be vaccinated and kids to test negative.  NCL wants everyone to be vaccinated, so that eliminates kids being on board.  Carnival is saying that vaccines will more than likely not be required. 

 

The sooner that cruising resumes, the higher the probability of my proposal becomes reality since Carnival would more than likely be the only line out of the big 3 to not make vaccinations a requirement. If things get stretched out and nothing happens till November with the CSO expiring and the CDC not extending it, then who knows what the landscape will be in 7+ months.  But, it is food for thought.

NCL is pushing the CDC to approve their proposal because they may not legally be able to require passengers to be vaccinated. Hopefully the CDC or if not a few of the ports mandate it. 

Edited by regoodwinjr
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The opinions on this topic are vast and many great valid points raised regardless of what side of the fence you find yourself on.


I typically look at stances like this through a financial prism. 
 

Carnival raised 2.5 billion is cash by diluting their stock in the last 6 months. Their share holders and bankers will not allow the CEO to take this stance, I suspect they will require all travelers to be vaccinated prior to setting foot on any of their vessels. 
 

How much of their loyal clients will go elsewhere... it’s a risk Carnival leadership can’t chance.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Mike & Julie said:

The opinions on this topic are vast and many great valid points raised regardless of what side of the fence you find yourself on.


I typically look at stances like this through a financial prism. 
 

Carnival raised 2.5 billion is cash by diluting their stock in the last 6 months. Their share holders and bankers will not allow the CEO to take this stance, I suspect they will require all travelers to be vaccinated prior to setting foot on any of their vessels. 
 

How much of their loyal clients will go elsewhere... it’s a risk Carnival leadership can’t chance.

 

 

 

 

I can see this scenario as well if for nothing else than to provide a layer of CYA to the corporation in the event that someone gets COVID and then attempts to sue because, after all, the cruise line didn't mandate everyone be vaccinated. I know it's a long shot and a company could get sued regardless but it seems like the sort of decision a corporate board would take, especially in the short term.  

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16 minutes ago, Mike & Julie said:

The opinions on this topic are vast and many great valid points raised regardless of what side of the fence you find yourself on.


I typically look at stances like this through a financial prism. 
 

Carnival raised 2.5 billion is cash by diluting their stock in the last 6 months. Their share holders and bankers will not allow the CEO to take this stance, I suspect they will require all travelers to be vaccinated prior to setting foot on any of their vessels. 
 

How much of their loyal clients will go elsewhere... it’s a risk Carnival leadership can’t chance.

 

 

 

 

I was actually thinking if I would still want to sail on Carnival,  after SNJ brought his perspective up.  It is all 'what if' at this point but would I want to chance a lock down due to an abundant unprotected passenger manifest.  I am only a drop in the bucket as I only cruise about 4 weeks a year and I usually do it all on Carnival.  I was  fine with the idea of herd immunity being transferred from land to sea but SNJ's scenario would possible cause an imbalance. And maybe enough to cause a outbreak greater than just a few random cases.  I think the idea of looking at the big picture as this unfolds is pretty wise.  

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2 hours ago, Mike & Julie said:


I typically look at stances like this through a financial prism. 
 

Carnival raised 2.5 billion is cash by diluting their stock in the last 6 months. Their share holders and bankers will not allow the CEO to take this stance, I suspect they will require all travelers to be vaccinated prior to setting foot on any of their vessels. 
 

How much of their loyal clients will go elsewhere... it’s a risk Carnival leadership can’t chance.

Carnival too is looking at it through their own financial prism and at this point the bean counters are saying it's OK for Arnold Donald the idiot to say that vaccines are not going to be required and Ms Duffy to announce that Carnival is only going to embark from US ports. 

 

They are looking at their client base as a whole and taking a shotgun approach.  They want to appeal to as many people as possible to ensure that the Carnival cruiser can come from a as large as possible number of potential cruisers.  They probably feel that the small percentage of Carnival cruisers that will be upset by this policy and will not cruise on Carnival for the short term will be out gained by those who normally cruise on NCL and RCI, don't like the policies adopted by those lines and they will become new cruisers for Carnival.  Obtaining new "Blue Cards" is what Carnival's marketing strategy has been for years and this would just be another aspect of how it could be obtained.

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2 hours ago, Mike & Julie said:

The opinions on this topic are vast and many great valid points raised regardless of what side of the fence you find yourself on.


I typically look at stances like this through a financial prism. 
 

Carnival raised 2.5 billion is cash by diluting their stock in the last 6 months. Their share holders and bankers will not allow the CEO to take this stance, I suspect they will require all travelers to be vaccinated prior to setting foot on any of their vessels. 
 

How much of their loyal clients will go elsewhere... it’s a risk Carnival leadership can’t chance.

 

 

I think you made a common mistake - Carnival Corp raised billions and not just from stock sales. Some Carnival Corp ships are sailing today. Carnival Cruise Line, not so much.

 

Carnival Cruise Line base is dependent on novice cruises and there are still many more Americans who have never cruised than cruised. Many of those are going to be unwilling and/or unable to spend a lot of money to fly to another country.

 

Mandating vaccines is going to eliminate Florida from the mix. Personally I would mandate vaccines and start with other ports. Better safe than sorry.

 

I think Carnival may just restart all the other brands elsewhere and wait for anti-vaxers to come to their senses, or enough of them to achieve herd immunity in the US. As someone pointed out, it isn't on land herd immunity matters so much, as on the floating city cruise  ships. So how do you make sure of that? With or without mandating vaccines, masks and other precautions will have to be mandated. Testing is going to have to be more frequent. Cruise line shore excursions aka excursions in a bubble with be mandated. Everything will be capacity controlled. All because some people don't want to be vaccinated.

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3 hours ago, regoodwinjr said:

NCL is pushing the CDC to approve their proposal because they may not legally be able to require passengers to be vaccinated. Hopefully the CDC or if not a few of the ports mandate it. 

Why would they (NCL or any other cruise line) not be legally able to mandate vaccinations for sailing on their cruises?

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3 hours ago, Mike & Julie said:

The opinions on this topic are vast and many great valid points raised regardless of what side of the fence you find yourself on.


I typically look at stances like this through a financial prism. 
 

Carnival raised 2.5 billion is cash by diluting their stock in the last 6 months. Their share holders and bankers will not allow the CEO to take this stance, I suspect they will require all travelers to be vaccinated prior to setting foot on any of their vessels. 
 

How much of their loyal clients will go elsewhere... it’s a risk Carnival leadership can’t chance.

 

 

 

 

If Carnival does require vaccinations, where would their loyal clients go? Other lines seem  to be even more leaning to requiring vaccinations than Carnival.

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6 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

Most employers can't even mandate flu shots so it's going to be really difficult. 

 

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/key-questions-about-covid-19-vaccine-mandates/

 

Interesting article, thanks for posting it.

 

First, I misunderstood your point and thought the discussion was about could cruise lines mandate vaccines for passengers.

 

Second, I am not sure the article is on point since the cruise lines are all foreign flagged, I am not sure the points the article make are legally relevant.

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1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

Interesting article, thanks for posting it.

 

First, I misunderstood your point and thought the discussion was about could cruise lines mandate vaccines for passengers.

 

Second, I am not sure the article is on point since the cruise lines are all foreign flagged, I am not sure the points the article make are legally relevant.

Foreign flagged doesn't come into play since they sail from US ports. They still are subject to the ADA and other consumer protection laws.  

 

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3 minutes ago, regoodwinjr said:

Foreign flagged doesn't come into play since they sail from US ports. They still are subject to the ADA and other consumer protection laws.  

 

I don't see where either of those laws would apply, not being vaccinated is not a protected class.

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48 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I don't see where either of those laws would apply, not being vaccinated is not a protected class.

Not being able to take a vaccine because of a disabilty certainly is covered by the ADA.

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