Welcome to all of us Canadians on Cruise Critic!

[Blackduck59]

5 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Hadn’t seen that one.  A ‘passport’ for inter-provincial travel sound pretty far-fetched to me.

 

While I did "like" the gist of that post the "interprovincial" part is very much a non starter. I have commented many times on another board about border closures within the same country.

[broberts]

As a temporary health measure interprovincial restrictions might withstand an almost certain court challenge. I doubt anything permanent would get any traction in the courts.

[lostinparadise999]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

Hadn’t seen that one.  A ‘passport’ for inter-provincial travel sound pretty far-fetched to me.

Yeah, it goes against our constitution but right now Ont with Quebec there is a bit of lockdown, BC is fining BC residents for leaving their public health district and discouraging other inter provincial travellers, the Atlantic provinces have been turning other provincial travellers so it would in a way make sense if there was a provincial passport to help the economy and prevent spread of the virus.

Guess with BC the lowest of the 4 we want to keep safe and lower the cases so we can get on with our lives. There seems to be some animosity to vehicles with out of province license plates in BC because of the high case count from the province of origin. 

The provinces like the cruise ships have an obligation to keep everyone safe and do what is necessary to accomplish that goal. 

Looks like RCL, Disney, NCL and others are vaccinating their crew at the port to prepare for mid-July start. And they are still requiring everyone to be vaccinated regardless of  the governor of Florida banning requirement for vaccination and vaccination passport.

 

[Chiliburn]

5 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Before we get overly worried about variants a full investigation of the occurrence is needed. Were the people actually "fully vaccinated" and outside the waiting period for full efficacy? What is the expected efficacy of the vaccine(s) used? Etc.

The article I heard on the radio said they had the two shots and the time after the second shot had been competed.

The vaccines weren’t mentioned but they were from India.

With around 400,000 `reported’ cases a day ,India is a haven for variations.

 

 

[Chiliburn]

4 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

While I did "like" the gist of that post the "interprovincial" part is very much a non starter. I have commented many times on another board about border closures within the same country.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6253269779001

[Sue from Canada]

I just found this forum by accident and love it.  Ottawa is doing better with our Covid rates.  After having three HAL cruises cancelled I've still got Nov. 18, 2021 with HAL on the books (RT San Diego to Hawaii).  However, I'm thinking of asking my TA to try and bump it to April 2022 out of Vancouver. 

 

Waiting for second Pfizer shot in August but willing to take Moderna sooner. 

 

OMG, have you seen the prices for Air Canada and Westjet!!!  Air Canada finally refunded my money but Westjet refused and gave me a credit.  Only problem is there are no good flights from Ottawa.  In fact, we have so few good flights without going thru Montreal or Toronto - sad.  

 

Happy Mother's Day to all Canadian mothers.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Sue from Canada

[broberts]

5 hours ago, Sue from Canada said:

I just found this forum by accident and love it.  Ottawa is doing better with our Covid rates.  After having three HAL cruises cancelled I've still got Nov. 18, 2021 with HAL on the books (RT San Diego to Hawaii).  However, I'm thinking of asking my TA to try and bump it to April 2022 out of Vancouver. 

 

Waiting for second Pfizer shot in August but willing to take Moderna sooner. 

 

OMG, have you seen the prices for Air Canada and Westjet!!!  Air Canada finally refunded my money but Westjet refused and gave me a credit.  Only problem is there are no good flights from Ottawa.  In fact, we have so few good flights without going thru Montreal or Toronto - sad.  

 

Happy Mother's Day to all Canadian mothers.

 

Can you mix Pfizer and Moderna?

[lostinparadise999]

5 hours ago, Sue from Canada said:

I just found this forum by accident and love it.  Ottawa is doing better with our Covid rates.  After having three HAL cruises cancelled I've still got Nov. 18, 2021 with HAL on the books (RT San Diego to Hawaii).  However, I'm thinking of asking my TA to try and bump it to April 2022 out of Vancouver. 

 

Waiting for second Pfizer shot in August but willing to take Moderna sooner. 

 

OMG, have you seen the prices for Air Canada and Westjet!!!  Air Canada finally refunded my money but Westjet refused and gave me a credit.  Only problem is there are no good flights from Ottawa.  In fact, we have so few good flights without going thru Montreal or Toronto - sad.  

 

Happy Mother's Day to all Canadian mothers.

My sister in law lives in Ottawa and says the same thing about flights. You think being the country's capital with a lot of international travellers it would be easier to get flights. Guess Ottawa is too small and sandwiched between 2 larger cities. 

 

 

 

I got a TA cruise in Oct on Westerdam and from the first time I looked at flights to now, prices increased by over $300 and Air Canada cancelled our flight. Comparative pricing for flights with cruise line and on line is about $100 more for cruise line but have no problems with refunds on cancellation... I call it flight insurance.

I use to book flights independently but since the one time I used the cruise line and AC ran into departure and repairs on the flight we were hours late into Venice. Princess held the ship for us. There were 2 other couples on the flight going on the cruise but as far as Princess was concerned we were the only ones they were waiting for, but also took them as they were with us. 

Since then we used the cruise line flight program ( don't use Norwegian flights...cheap but you tour the world before you get to port and if the plane is late the cs leaves the port without you).

Being Mother's Day, moms have the power to tell the "kids" to stay home and stay safe and celebrate Mother's Day on line or social distance and it will be the one time the "kids" listen.

 

Happy Mother's Day 

 

[matamanoa]

I think that a huge part of the problem with trying to get the numbers to go down is the lack of enforcement of the restrictions that have been in place for many months.  Has anyone in the Toronto area watched or listened to the traffic reports throughout the day?  There are thousands of cars on the roads and we are supposed to be under a stay at home order.  The fact that there are traffic jams, etc. certainly points to the fact that no one is listening or following the rules and the virus just continues to spread.  There are so many areas that need to be improved and enforced and yet nothing seems to get done about that.  The lineups at pop up clinics are crazy.  People standing in inclement weather for hours, not knowing if there are enough doses for everyone.  Then having to repeat the same thing the next day in the hopes that they get lucky.  The rollout is a disaster and should have been organized by someone who knew what they were doing.  As I'm sure you can tell, my opinion of the provincial government's handling of the pandemic is less than enthusiastic.  They keep implementing new rules by the day and nothing seems to work.  Their handling of the border closures has been less than ideal and people are always trying new ways to circumvent the restrictions.  Hopefully now that more citizens are able to get their vaccines, at some point in the months ahead, we will be able to see results and some return to normalcy and properity.

 

Barb

[lostinparadise999]

1 hour ago, matamanoa said:

I think that a huge part of the problem with trying to get the numbers to go down is the lack of enforcement of the restrictions that have been in place for many months.  Has anyone in the Toronto area watched or listened to the traffic reports throughout the day?  There are thousands of cars on the roads and we are supposed to be under a stay at home order.  The fact that there are traffic jams, etc. certainly points to the fact that no one is listening or following the rules and the virus just continues to spread.  There are so many areas that need to be improved and enforced and yet nothing seems to get done about that.  The lineups at pop up clinics are crazy.  People standing in inclement weather for hours, not knowing if there are enough doses for everyone.  Then having to repeat the same thing the next day in the hopes that they get lucky.  The rollout is a disaster and should have been organized by someone who knew what they were doing.  As I'm sure you can tell, my opinion of the provincial government's handling of the pandemic is less than enthusiastic.  They keep implementing new rules by the day and nothing seems to work.  Their handling of the border closures has been less than ideal and people are always trying new ways to circumvent the restrictions.  Hopefully now that more citizens are able to get their vaccines, at some point in the months ahead, we will be able to see results and some return to normalcy and properity.

 

Barb

We had the same problems with pop up clinics in BC...total disasters. They now take the hot spots and send out booking invitations to those areas so you need an appointment before you go. These hotspot areas includes grocery workers, industrial, retail, people over 18 etc. Whistler for example was a hot spot and anyone living or working was encouraged to get their jab regardless of age or where they lived.

In areas that are lower infection the PHA still goes by age.  

The government and health authorities must be consistent, not one taking the limelight and ignoring the health authorities. 

Dr Bonnie Henry has been a pillar for our community and the provincial government let her take the lead. Guess about 40% of BC is vaccinated and lots more anxiously waiting for the shot. 

 

[TeaBag]

1 hour ago, matamanoa said:

I think that a huge part of the problem with trying to get the numbers to go down is the lack of enforcement of the restrictions that have been in place for many months.  Has anyone in the Toronto area watched or listened to the traffic reports throughout the day?  There are thousands of cars on the roads and we are supposed to be under a stay at home order.  The fact that there are traffic jams, etc. certainly points to the fact that no one is listening or following the rules and the virus just continues to spread.  There are so many areas that need to be improved and enforced and yet nothing seems to get done about that.  The lineups at pop up clinics are crazy.  People standing in inclement weather for hours, not knowing if there are enough doses for everyone.  Then having to repeat the same thing the next day in the hopes that they get lucky.  The rollout is a disaster and should have been organized by someone who knew what they were doing.  As I'm sure you can tell, my opinion of the provincial government's handling of the pandemic is less than enthusiastic.  They keep implementing new rules by the day and nothing seems to work.  Their handling of the border closures has been less than ideal and people are always trying new ways to circumvent the restrictions.  Hopefully now that more citizens are able to get their vaccines, at some point in the months ahead, we will be able to see results and some return to normalcy and properity.

 

Barb

I agree with you totally and I am at the other end of the country.  There were huge line-ups here too and many had to be refused when they ran out of vaccine.  Next day the poor folks lined up again for a few hours before someone from the parks board told them there was no clinic that day!!  Has no one ever thought of a sign?  Our whole vaccination program is a disgrace.  I don't like having to wait 4 months between shots either.

Lostinparadise beat me to it.

[TeaBag]

welcome Sue.  I too, love this new forum.  it's great to see where people are from and who they cruise with.  I tend to just read the forums of the cruise lines I sail with and this one is a remedy to that.  our next cruise will not be till Apr 26 and we are looking forward to it. 

[Heidi13]

8 hours ago, lostinparadise999 said:

We had the same problems with pop up clinics in BC...total disasters. They now take the hot spots and send out booking invitations to those areas so you need an appointment before you go. These hotspot areas includes grocery workers, industrial, retail, people over 18 etc. Whistler for example was a hot spot and anyone living or working was encouraged to get their jab regardless of age or where they lived.

In areas that are lower infection the PHA still goes by age.  

The government and health authorities must be consistent, not one taking the limelight and ignoring the health authorities. 

Dr Bonnie Henry has been a pillar for our community and the provincial government let her take the lead. Guess about 40% of BC is vaccinated and lots more anxiously waiting for the shot. 

 

 

Dr Henry has done an incredible job in dealing with the pandemic, with the exception of possibly the recent pop-up clinics. Her tasks have been compounded by the complete inability of the Federal Govt to procure sufficient vaccine and to adequately secure the borders to prevent further variants arriving.

 

The Prime Minister really only had 2 tasks to protect Canadians from COVID - ordering sufficient vaccine early (similar to UK) and effectively closing the borders to prevent further variants. His spectacular failure on both has made the job of all Provinces so much harder. If the borders were managed, and effective quarantine measures were in place, Canada would not be having a 3rd wave.

 

Based on the complete failure of the Federal Govt, Dr Henry's performance in BC has been exceptional, in keeping our numbers reasonable, while also balancing it with the need to keep schools open and business running.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Dr Henry has done an incredible job in dealing with the pandemic, with the exception of possibly the recent pop-up clinics. Her tasks have been compounded by the complete inability of the Federal Govt to procure sufficient vaccine and to adequately secure the borders to prevent further variants arriving.

 

The Prime Minister really only had 2 tasks to protect Canadians from COVID - ordering sufficient vaccine early (similar to UK) and effectively closing the borders to prevent further variants. His spectacular failure on both has made the job of all Provinces so much harder. If the borders were managed, and effective quarantine measures were in place, Canada would not be having a 3rd wave.

 

Based on the complete failure of the Federal Govt, Dr Henry's performance in BC has been exceptional, in keeping our numbers reasonable, while also balancing it with the need to keep schools open and business running.

 

What specifically could the federal government have done to procure vaccine earlier? It certainly has bought enough. By my calculations enough approved vaccines for vaccinated every Canadian three times and enough yet to be approved vaccine for another two vaccinations.

[Sue from Canada]

16 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Can you mix Pfizer and Moderna?

What what I've read and heard on tv, they is talk that you can get one shot of each. But who knows in the end.  I just want my second shot.

[Sue from Canada]

25 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

What specifically could the federal government have done to procure vaccine earlier? It certainly has bought enough. By my calculations enough approved vaccines for vaccinated every Canadian three times and enough yet to be approved vaccine for another two vaccinations.

Trudeau put all his eggs in one basket and ordered vaccine from China only.  While waiting for China to deliver, other countries were ordering from other manufacturers.  Then China told Canada, to put it politely, to find another source.  Of course by this time, Canada was at the back of the pack to put in orders.  So, the Feds should have put in orders for vaccines from numerous venues.   Buying enough is not the same as having enough.  We could have purchased two billion vials but until they'd be delivered we're still the creek without a paddle.

[Heidi13]

27 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

What specifically could the federal government have done to procure vaccine earlier? It certainly has bought enough. By my calculations enough approved vaccines for vaccinated every Canadian three times and enough yet to be approved vaccine for another two vaccinations.

 

The amount of vaccine the Federal Govt purchased is my definition of typical Ottawa propoganda. Since they didn't purchase vaccine quick enough, they purchased way more than the country could possibly require. Then they promote how much vaccine they purchased, so everyone forgets about the delays.

 

If the Federal Govt can't figure it out, a quick call to Boris in UK would help, since he has already purchased boosters to be given in the Autumn. 

[Heidi13]

24 minutes ago, Sue from Canada said:

Trudeau put all his eggs in one basket and ordered vaccine from China only.  While waiting for China to deliver, other countries were ordering from other manufacturers.  Then China told Canada, to put it politely, to find another source.  Of course by this time, Canada was at the back of the pack to put in orders.  So, the Feds should have put in orders for vaccines from numerous venues.   Buying enough is not the same as having enough.  We could have purchased two billion vials but until they'd be delivered we're still the creek without a paddle.

 

China telling Trudeau "To find another source" was probably a blessing in disguise. A number of countries using the China vaccine are experiencing increasing infections. 

[Sue from Canada]

49 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

China telling Trudeau "To find another source" was probably a blessing in disguise. A number of countries using the China vaccine are experiencing increasing infections. 

I agree.  Although China developed four vaccine types the efficacy is around fifty percent for some of them.

[Chiliburn]

On 5/9/2021 at 2:28 AM, Blackduck59 said:

 

While I did "like" the gist of that post the "interprovincial" part is very much a non starter. I have commented many times on another board about border closures within the same country.

Why would any use the Chinese vaccines???

 

[broberts]

7 hours ago, Sue from Canada said:

Trudeau put all his eggs in one basket and ordered vaccine from China only.  While waiting for China to deliver, other countries were ordering from other manufacturers.  Then China told Canada, to put it politely, to find another source.  Of course by this time, Canada was at the back of the pack to put in orders.  So, the Feds should have put in orders for vaccines from numerous venues.   Buying enough is not the same as having enough.  We could have purchased two billion vials but until they'd be delivered we're still the creek without a paddle.

 

7 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The amount of vaccine the Federal Govt purchased is my definition of typical Ottawa propoganda. Since they didn't purchase vaccine quick enough, they purchased way more than the country could possibly require. Then they promote how much vaccine they purchased, so everyone forgets about the delays.

 

If the Federal Govt can't figure it out, a quick call to Boris in UK would help, since he has already purchased boosters to be given in the Autumn. 

 

I asked for specific things the government could have done to secure earlier delivery of vaccines. So far all I've seen is criticism of a supposed procument activity.

 

https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/comm/aic-scr/ententes-agreements-strat-eng.html

[lostinparadise999]

5 hours ago, Chiliburn said:

Why would any use the Chinese vaccines???

 

China has always had a quality issue in any production. Back in the SARS infection they produced poor quality vaccine and shipped to Philippines. It was tragic. Now the people are skeptic of vaccine. There is very little oversight in Russian and China production process. Nor would the testing be done as a double blind and with real volunteers. If they want to experiment with you they tell you to stand in line but don't tell you why.

The problem with Canada short supply is when the Liberal governing party cut funding years ago then the next Conserative governing party sold off the vaccine production facility.

We had a chance to be a leader but the federal did not give complete commitment in completing a new facility that is currently under construction. Also we have some pharmaceutical companies developing new vaccines which is not strongly supported.

The companies are plugging away to be true leaders in this challenging times but without federal or other funding taking longer. 

[d9704011]

58 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

 

I asked for specific things the government could have done to secure earlier delivery of vaccines. So far all I've seen is criticism of a supposed procument activity.

 

https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/comm/aic-scr/ententes-agreements-strat-eng.html

Yes.  Back in late January when Pfizer temporarily stopped shipments on a contractual obligation to deliver four million doses by the end of March while they upgraded their facilities in Belgium the government should have sent in the army to simply take what was rightfully ours and to heck with it... whether the doses existed or not!

[Chiliburn]

1 hour ago, lostinparadise999 said:

China has always had a quality issue in any production. Back in the SARS infection they produced poor quality vaccine and shipped to Philippines. It was tragic. Now the people are skeptic of vaccine. There is very little oversight in Russian and China production process. Nor would the testing be done as a double blind and with real volunteers. If they want to experiment with you they tell you to stand in line but don't tell you why.

The problem with Canada short supply is when the Liberal governing party cut funding years ago then the next Conserative governing party sold off the vaccine production facility.

We had a chance to be a leader but the federal did not give complete commitment in completing a new facility that is currently under construction. Also we have some pharmaceutical companies developing new vaccines which is not strongly supported.

The companies are plugging away to be true leaders in this challenging times but without federal or other funding taking longer. 

Just about everything they make is sub standard  ,like it’s broken before you get out of the shop.

I think to get a visa and go to China you have to get one of their vaccines .
So I won’t be going there.

 

Same thing happened to our commonwealth serum laboratory that makes our vaccines.

The government sold it years ago and it’s now worth 20,000% more.
They don’t want to make the new vaccines here so our government is going to build a new factory for them.

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

 

I asked for specific things the government could have done to secure earlier delivery of vaccines. So far all I've seen is criticism of a supposed procument activity.

 

https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/comm/aic-scr/ententes-agreements-strat-eng.html

 

We pay Trudeau to manage the procurement/distribution of the vaccine and securing the borders to keep out both the original infections and laterly the new variants. These are clearly Federal responsibilities.

 

Providing specific examples of how the Govt could perform better is well outside our scope, as we don't have all the facts. However, we can determine Trudeau's performance by comparing him to his peers, especially countries with similar models of Government - specifically UK, NZ & Australia.

 

With respect to vaccine procurement and distribution, UK leads by a country mile. They were at the head of the queue for purchasing and also started planning the distribution logistics back in mid 2020. When the UK vaccines arrived in December they already had hundreds of vaccination centres ready to go, with the required equipment.

 

In Canada, I believe Trudeau announced in late November he appointed a General to manage the process. UK started planning for the distribution about 6 months before the vaccines were approved, Trudeau started only a couple of weeks before Pfizer was approved on 9th December. Therefore, in BC when the vaccines arrived we had only 2 hospitals capable of providing shots. No planning took place as Engineers at our local hospital got minimal notice of freezers arriving. 

 

NZ & Australia have received slower vaccine delivery than UK, but to protect their citizens, both those Governments implemented effective border controls and quarantine standards. Trudeau implemented a highly ineffective quarantine program with ridiculous loopholes, after the UK and Brazil variants had already arrived, and were spreading rapidly. The inability of Trudeau to close the borders in a timely manner caused the 3rd wave in Canada. Then to prove he still doesn't learn, flights from India were stopped after cases of the India variant were reported in Canada. Trudeau repeatedly states his quarantine measures work, but the facts prove a contrary opinion.

 

Compared to his peers, Trudeau has failed miserably on both the procurement/distribution of the vaccine and the ability to secure the borders to keep out new variants.