3rd vaccine dose likely needed

[Shorewalk Holmes]

9 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

I don't think you should rely on mine, yours, or anyone else's biased opinion, on large groups of people, especially when it comes to a polarized take on integrity or perfection.  I brought you the anomaly, disregard it as you wish. 

 

What's a good alternative to generally trusting doctors and scientists?  It's better than trusting Facebook.

 

Fair point about the anomaly.  Doctors found no evidence of vaccine-caused death in all 3005 cases. So, to me, the anomaly is just an interesting side issue that, as you say, I have pretty much disregarded.

 

So I looked into it a bit. Independent scientists are studying the VAERS data and correlating it with other information, looking for evidence of vaccine-caused deaths. So we'll get another take on the data.  But what they find won't matter to you if you are unwilling to assume their honesty and competence.

 

The wider issue here is the culture of horribly corrosive, misinformed, often politically-driven attacks on experts.

 

People aren't getting vaccines that could save their lives and those of their families because they've been told that doctors and scientists are corrupt and incompetent.  Maybe we should list 'misinformation' as a cause on their death certificates.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[broberts]

2 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

What's a good alternative to generally trusting doctors and scientists?  It's better than trusting Facebook.

 

Fair point about the anomaly.  Doctors found no evidence of vaccine-caused death in all 3005 cases. So, to me, the anomaly is just an interesting side issue that, as you say, I have pretty much disregarded.

 

So I looked into it a bit. Independent scientists are studying the VAERS data and correlating it with other information, looking for evidence of vaccine-caused deaths. So we'll get another take on the data.  But what they find won't matter to you if you are unwilling to assume their honesty and competence.

 

The wider issue here is the culture of horribly corrosive, misinformed, often politically-driven attacks on experts.

 

People aren't getting vaccines that could save their lives and those of their families because they've been told that doctors and scientists are corrupt and incompetent.  Maybe we should list 'misinformation' as a cause on their death certificates.

 

 

Ultimately the anomoly is not terribly material except to those affected. Even if every single one can be directly attributed to a vaccine the numbers involved are such that vaccinations still make more sense than risking COVID-19.

[lenquixote66]

14 hours ago, yogimax said:

God bless you, lenquixote66!

 

I think you live in Manhattan.  We lived on the Upper East Side for 27 years before moving back to Astoria.  I truly appreciate your wisdom and posts on this board!

I lived in Brooklyn the majority of my life and now live in Long Island.

Thank you so very much.

[TheMastodon]

1 hour ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

What's a good alternative to generally trusting doctors and scientists?  It's better than trusting Facebook.

 

Fair point about the anomaly.  Doctors found no evidence of vaccine-caused death in all 3005 cases. So, to me, the anomaly is just an interesting side issue that, as you say, I have pretty much disregarded.

 

So I looked into it a bit. Independent scientists are studying the VAERS data and correlating it with other information, looking for evidence of vaccine-caused deaths. So we'll get another take on the data.  But what they find won't matter to you if you are unwilling to assume their honesty and competence.

 

The wider issue here is the culture of horribly corrosive, misinformed, often politically-driven attacks on experts.

 

People aren't getting vaccines that could save their lives and those of their families because they've been told that doctors and scientists are corrupt and incompetent.  Maybe we should list 'misinformation' as a cause on their death certificates.

 

“Experts” have never been wrong?   Just saying... 

 

I have friends who are Dr.’s who have diff opinions about Covid19.  Just seems like certain dr’s/“experts” with certain opinions are the ones we are being told to follow.  
 

I am vaccinated and pro vaccine * aka I trust ScIeNcE. 

 

I am very concerned that pausing J&J will have negative consequences getting more shots in arms.  Someone who was apprehensive about getting a shot will REALLY be on the fence now.   

 

Again, cautiously optimistic that we’ll get at least 70% vaccinated.  
 

 

[Shorewalk Holmes]

41 minutes ago, TheMastodon said:

“Experts” have never been wrong?   Just saying... 

 

Sure, experts make mistakes sometimes.  But they're a huge improvement over anti-vax Facebook posts. 

 

Undermining experts' credibility for entertainment and/or political gain has, I believe, negative consequences for vaccine compliance, but I suppose it's inevitable.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[Shorewalk Holmes]

44 minutes ago, TheMastodon said:

I have friends who are Dr.’s who have diff opinions about Covid19.  Just seems like certain dr’s/“experts” with certain opinions are the ones we are being told to follow.  

 

By the way, I appreciate your graphs as a springboard for discussion. I'm not sure what to make of the one for Arizona.  When the doctors asked for more restrictions, were they actually implemented?

[Stallion]

1 hour ago, TheMastodon said:

“Experts” have never been wrong?   Just saying... 

 

I have friends who are Dr.’s who have diff opinions about Covid19.  Just seems like certain dr’s/“experts” with certain opinions are the ones we are being told to follow.  
 

I am vaccinated and pro vaccine * aka I trust ScIeNcE. 

 

I am very concerned that pausing J&J will have negative consequences getting more shots in arms.  Someone who was apprehensive about getting a shot will REALLY be on the fence now.   

 

Again, cautiously optimistic that we’ll get at least 70% vaccinated.  
 

 

An extremely small number of "Doctors" would qualify to testify in court or administrative hearings on Covid-19. There are gatekeeping requirements in order to testify on a particular alleged expertise. Testimony must be evaluated based on relevance, reliability, the witness's expertise and peer reviewed studies or that testimony is excluded. Generally knowledge of medicine is not sufficient in order to testify concerning a topic like Covid-19. see Dr. Scott Atlas whose testimony would be excluded as Junk Science on Covid-19 since he is only radiologist, political commentator, and health care policy advisor

Edited April 21, 2021 by Stallion

[broberts]

Experience is showing us that managing a pandemic to minimize its duration  and body count is challenging and complex. Made more so by the "expertise" of the peanut gallery.

 

It will be years before there is any real understanding of how we should have managed this pandemic. And, my cynicism suggests like the last one the knowledge will have been discarded well before the next one appears.

[TheMastodon]

2 hours ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

By the way, I appreciate your graphs as a springboard for discussion. I'm not sure what to make of the one for Arizona.  When the doctors asked for more restrictions, were they actually implemented?

Thanks!  To my knowledge no.... 

[TheMastodon]

4 hours ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

By the way, I appreciate your graphs as a springboard for discussion. I'm not sure what to make of the one for Arizona.  When the doctors asked for more restrictions, were they actually implemented?

Everyone is going to get hit eventually.  Mother Nature doesn’t care what you do (N95 would be helpful tho)

 

[time4u2go]

19 minutes ago, TheMastodon said:

Everyone is going to get hit eventually.  Mother Nature doesn’t care what you do (N95 would be helpful tho)

 

The second mark on your graph shows when the article was written about mask usage (December 30), but it doesn't show when "nearly everyone started wearing masks".  Do you know when that occurred?

Edited April 22, 2021 by time4u2go

[cured]

21 hours ago, James4me said:

I heard on the news Johnson and Johnson that there have been side effects concerning blood clots.  People have died taking it a couple days after.  They pulled J & J for the time being.  I was going to go to them for my vaccine.  Now, I can’t trust anyone right now.I’ll just have to wait and see what, if any, side effects occur to those who have  gotten the vaccine. 

I read some of your other posts so understand why you don't trust the mRNA vaccines.

 

One of my kids is one of the scientists working on one of the mRNA vaccines. I can absolutely guarantee you that there is no chip being put in the vaccines nor is there anything else besides what is needed to fight covid.

 

If you have a cellphone, you are already being tracked far more than anything they could put in a vaccine.  

[d9704011]

4 minutes ago, cured said:

I read some of your other posts so understand why you don't trust the mRNA vaccines.

 

One of my kids is one of the scientists working on one of the mRNA vaccines. I can absolutely guarantee you that there is no chip being put in the vaccines nor is there anything else besides what is needed to fight covid.

 

If you have a cellphone, you are already being tracked far more than anything they could put in a vaccine.  

You’d say that wouldn’t you to protect your child?  Perhaps you’re part of the conspiracy too?  Me, I’m one of the sheeple and just herded myself down to the clinic for a shot.

[cured]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

You’d say that wouldn’t you to protect your child?  Perhaps you’re part of the conspiracy too?  Me, I’m one of the sheeple and just herded myself down to the clinic for a shot.

You got me on that.

 

I was one of the sheeple too and didn't get the kid's vaccine.

[jonbgd]

HUH

Edited April 22, 2021 by jonbgd

[vacationlover_mn]

On 4/20/2021 at 7:05 PM, lenquixote66 said:

Not mentioning any names but a person posted a similiar statement and I checked her posts on threads to see how many non cruise comments she made that changed the drift of a thread and stopped at 17.Perhaps I should do the same thing with you ?

 

 

Oooo, is it me?  🙂

[vacationlover_mn]

21 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I believe the J&J vaccine is made same way astra zeneca is made and they also had blood clot issues in other countries.  Woman of child bearing age that took birth control pills is what I heard as one of the similiarities.

Ah, I was wondering if they would find a connection between the clots, the shot, and the pill.  At least 3 of my close friends, and I moved from the pill to something else, due to side effects and the risk of blood clots.  1 of my friends almost died from a blood clot that was likely due to the pill.

[Sunshine3601]

2 hours ago, vacationlover_mn said:

Ah, I was wondering if they would find a connection between the clots, the shot, and the pill.  At least 3 of my close friends, and I moved from the pill to something else, due to side effects and the risk of blood clots.  1 of my friends almost died from a blood clot that was likely due to the pill.

Yes, I was on the pill for about 25 yrs and they were always concerned about clotting issues.     Apparently the pfizer and moderna vaccines are the best choice for someone on the pill.  

I read some other countries will not give the astra zeneca to woman under age of 55 or 60, especially if they take the pill.  J&J is made same way so expect the US may set similiar guidelines if they restart administering  the j&j  vaccine.

[DCGuy64]

Here's my armchair quarterback take:

If you believe that mask mandates and vaccines work, you will uncritically believe any study or quote that supports that. However, if someone presents contradictory information, you will dissect and scrutinize every word, challenge every assumption, discredit the source and slander the authors all in hopes of proving it wrong. It's human nature: we don't like our assumptions to be questioned. Most people do this all of the time, possibly without even knowing it. I've certainly seen plenty of evidence on here.

[d9704011]

50 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Here's my armchair quarterback take:

If you believe that mask mandates and vaccines work, you will uncritically believe any study or quote that supports that. However, if someone presents contradictory information, you will dissect and scrutinize every word, challenge every assumption, discredit the source and slander the authors all in hopes of proving it wrong. It's human nature: we don't like our assumptions to be questioned. Most people do this all of the time, possibly without even knowing it. I've certainly seen plenty of evidence on here.

I’m on the horns of a dilemma here.  Normally, I dismiss and/or distrust pretty much everything you post.  However, I’m in general agreement with your armchair quarterback description of bias confirmation.

 

What to do.....?

[Keksie]

4 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

 

What to do.....?

Let people live the life they choose not the life you wish they would live.  

[broberts]

2 minutes ago, Keksie said:

Let people live the life they choose not the life you wish they would live.  

 

Even when it negatively affects my life?

[d9704011]

1 minute ago, Keksie said:

Let people live the life they choose not the life you wish they would live.  

Very nice philosophy.  I don’t believe people should be so free to choose what they wish to do if it adversely impacts on others.

[DCGuy64]

51 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Very nice philosophy.  I don’t believe people should be so free to choose what they wish to do if it adversely impacts on others.

Ah, but who gets to decide what constitutes adverse impact? And in what spheres? How far do you want to go with this idea? I can think of PLENTY of examples that would make you reconsider that proposition.

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Ah, but who gets to decide what constitutes adverse impact? And in what spheres? How far do you want to go with this idea? I can think of PLENTY of examples that would make you reconsider that proposition.

No thanks.