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Planes, Train, Automobiles, But No Cruise Ships. I Asked Why?


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I have been corresponding with the CDC regarding their ban on cruises.  After several "canned" replies, I kept pressing for them to answer my question about the science behind the continued ban on cruise travel if all crew and passengers were vaccinated, and if so, did that mean the vaccine was not effective?  I must've struck a nerve with the vaccine effectiveness query because I finally received something other than the previous canned responses.  Here is their latest:

 

"Cruising safely and responsibly during a global pandemic is difficult. Returning to passenger cruising is a phased approach to mitigate the risk of spreading COVID-19.

 

COVID-19 vaccination is an important tool to help us get back to normal. We are still learning how effective the vaccines are against variants of the virus that causes COVID-19, how well the vaccines keep people from spreading the disease and how long the COVID-19 vaccines can protect people. As we know more, CDC will continue to update our recommendations for both fully vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

 

COVID-19 vaccines will play a critical role in the safe resumption of passenger operations, but not all cruise ship operators have announced plans to mandate passenger vaccinations. Additionally, some passengers, notably children, may not be eligible to get a COVID-19 vaccine at this time. Even when travelers are vaccinated, protective public health measures-such as testing, mask use, and physical distancing-will still be important. CDC acknowledges that it is not possible for cruising to be a zero-risk activity for spread of COVID-19. While cruising will always pose some risk of COVID-19 transmission, we are committed to ensuring that cruise ship passenger operations are conducted in a way that protects crew members, passengers, and port personnel, particularly with emerging COVID-19 variants of concern.

 

CDC recommends that all eligible port personnel and travelers (passengers and crew) get a COVID-19 vaccine when one is available to them. CDC continues to work with cruise lines to ensure that all necessary public health procedures are in place before cruise lines begin sailing with passengers."

 

 

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I have also questioned this rationale.   I recently flew in a full plane.  No social distancing   No need for vaccine. The cruise lines are jumping thru hoops trying to appease the CDC and to no avail.  Yes, it was terrible at the beginning of the pandemic with ships filled with sick passengers and unable to port anywhere but this was not all the fault of the cruise line.   No one was aware of what was about to happen, or chose to ignore it.   Reduced capacity with 100% vaccinated crew and passengers seems pretty safe to me

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Can’t answer why other modes of transportation are ok, but take a look at the current news on the pandemic and restrictions imposed on us in Ontario Canada. The spread and dire situation we are in today is being largely blamed on mobility, by our Premier  
the Police & By Law Officers have been given the power to stop & question us, without cause, if they see us out of our homes. 

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6 minutes ago, dog said:

Can’t answer why other modes of transportation are ok, but take a look at the current news on the pandemic and restrictions imposed on us in Ontario Canada. The spread and dire situation we are in today is being largely blamed on mobility, by our Premier  
the Police & By Law Officers have been given the power to stop & question us, without cause, if they see us out of our homes. 

that stinks.

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1 hour ago, AF-1 said:

that stinks.

Yes,  too little😔

quite late. 
guess the Snowbirds are home too. 

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From what I have read, the CDC thinks the other types of travel are safer because they are shorter trips.  The travelers may pass the virus among themselves, but they have different destinations, so the risk/results are spread out and wouldn't devolve on one location/port.  Poor excuse in my opinion, but that's what I see.  EM

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Their reply about cruising after being vaccinated is especially interesting since last week the CDC director declared that there is no data showing that you can spread the virus after you've been vaccinated.

 

Personally, I think they are so risk averse that they are looking for a zero infection rate for political reasons.  Remember, POTUS's position is that if we all get vaccinated we can gather in our backyards for a cookout to celebrate Independence Day - the same thing we could do last year before the vaccine.

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4 hours ago, dog said:

Can’t answer why other modes of transportation are ok, but take a look at the current news on the pandemic and restrictions imposed on us in Ontario Canada. The spread and dire situation we are in today is being largely blamed on mobility, by our Premier  
the Police & By Law Officers have been given the power to stop & question us, without cause, if they see us out of our homes. 

And here they are whining about how wearing a mask is a violation of their liberties.

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1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

And here they are whining about how wearing a mask is a violation of their liberties.

Actually, here in Ontario Canada, when I have been out, mask wearing is evident. I, personally don’t know anyone who won’t comply with that. Police, in several regions , today are saying they will not be applying these new powers of stopping cars randomly.
Push back from medical, as well, with playgrounds etc closed. Headlines of Premier saying, “I am ashamed.”  
Some of us have truly tried to do our part, foregoing vacations in the past year, but there has been a large number coming through our airport in Toronto & returning by car in Buffalo/Niagara. Now Manitoba & Quebec borders are being monitored to stop nonessential travel. 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, dog said:

Can’t answer why other modes of transportation are ok, but take a look at the current news on the pandemic and restrictions imposed on us in Ontario Canada. The spread and dire situation we are in today is being largely blamed on mobility, by our Premier  
the Police & By Law Officers have been given the power to stop & question us, without cause, if they see us out of our homes. 

This situation is also exposing the inadequacies of our "vaunted" public health care system - under-resourced (medical personnel) and sub-standard infrastructure for the population level.  Hopefully, a post-mortem on Covid-19 will address this area, but I am not holding my breath as it has been this way for more than a generation.

 

Also, our government has continuously clamped down on the wrong things and not taken sufficient and best strategy actions to address the real problem areas.  And here we are with the police expected to keep people in line who are going about their business.  Little they can do as anyone stopped just has to say they are out for grocery shopping.

 

ETA:  I am just reading now that several major police forces will not be doing random stops - including Metro Toronto, the largest force.  Major constitutional issues abound if carried out.  So, this aspect may just fizzle away.

 

 

Edited by Steelers36
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2 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

And here they are whining about how wearing a mask is a violation of their liberties.

 

Which it is not.  Plus it's federal law that you must wear a mask on flights.  if you refuse, you're kicked off.  If you remove the mask, other than to eat or drink, you'll face a possible fine or more.  They're taking this thing very seriously.

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9 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Their reply about cruising after being vaccinated is especially interesting since last week the CDC director declared that there is no data showing that you can spread the virus after you've been vaccinated.

 

Personally, I think they are so risk averse that they are looking for a zero infection rate for political reasons.  Remember, POTUS's position is that if we all get vaccinated we can gather in our backyards for a cookout to celebrate Independence Day - the same thing we could do last year before the vaccine.

The CDC Director said that "preliminary" data seemed to indicate a significantly reduced risk of transmitting the virus as a vaccinated individual.  She did not say there was "no data showing that you can spread the virus" after being vaccinated.  She also said that the study done was informal and has not been scientifically validated and is subject to further confirmation.

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6 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Which it is not.  Plus it's federal law that you must wear a mask on flights.  if you refuse, you're kicked off.  If you remove the mask, other than to eat or drink, you'll face a possible fine or more.  They're taking this thing very seriously.

LOL taking things very seriously. If everyone took things seriously there would be no  air travel. It is all just a big ole game of make believe. Wearing a mask in a crowded airport and airplane, 6 inches of social distancing, wearing a mask from the front door of a restaurant to your table, taking it off for the next hour, nothing more than nonsense and theatre as we all pretend it is perfectly safe.

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9 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

LOL taking things very seriously. If everyone took things seriously there would be no  air travel. It is all just a big ole game of make believe. Wearing a mask in a crowded airport and airplane, 6 inches of social distancing, wearing a mask from the front door of a restaurant to your table, taking it off for the next hour, nothing more than nonsense and theatre as we all pretend it is perfectly safe.


Have you had anyone you care about die from Covid-19?

 

Some of us have. Some people are not laughing. 
 

Many people are travelling & spreading the virus. See my post above describing the situation we are in as of yesterday in Ontario. 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

LOL taking things very seriously. If everyone took things seriously there would be no  air travel. It is all just a big ole game of make believe. Wearing a mask in a crowded airport and airplane, 6 inches of social distancing, wearing a mask from the front door of a restaurant to your table, taking it off for the next hour, nothing more than nonsense and theatre as we all pretend it is perfectly safe.

 

And here it it, folks, the main reason we cannot get past this pandemic.  

Edited by K.T.B.
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13 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

From what I have read, the CDC thinks the other types of travel are safer because they are shorter trips.  The travelers may pass the virus among themselves, but they have different destinations, so the risk/results are spread out and wouldn't devolve on one location/port.  Poor excuse in my opinion, but that's what I see.  EM

And that's the problem...no science supports the distinction.  As I've said before - contact time is far less on a cruise ship than in a casino, on a plane, bus, train....

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11 hours ago, harkinmr said:

The CDC Director said that "preliminary" data seemed to indicate a significantly reduced risk of transmitting the virus as a vaccinated individual.  She did not say there was "no data showing that you can spread the virus" after being vaccinated.  She also said that the study done was informal and has not been scientifically validated and is subject to further confirmation.

 

Here is what she said:

 

“Our data from the CDC today suggests, you know, that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick,” Walensky said on MSNBC last weekend, adding “that is not just in the clinical trials, but it’s also in real world data.”

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

Here is what she said:

 

“Our data from the CDC today suggests, you know, that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don’t get sick,” Walensky said on MSNBC last weekend, adding “that is not just in the clinical trials, but it’s also in real world data.”

 

 

 

And that data is preliminary.  She has gone on to further qualify her statement to emphasize the preliminary nature of the data.  The CDC has also put out advice on the same.  

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/health/coronavirus-vaccine-walensky.html

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html

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10 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

And here it it, folks, the main reason we cannot get past this pandemic.  

You are misreading what I said.

You will not get past it as long as we all pretend it is safe with all the mask and social distancing and deep cleaning theatre. I am not saying it is perfectly safe, quite the opposite. It is practically worthless.

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This is all so bizarre, but not as bizarre as Michigan which is mandating that children 2 years old and older wear masks.  There are too many people playing doctor that don't have any sense.

 

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17 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

You are misreading what I said.

You will not get past it as long as we all pretend it is safe with all the mask and social distancing and deep cleaning theatre. I am not saying it is perfectly safe, quite the opposite. It is practically worthless.


I really don’t understand what you are saying. 
Your last post started out with LOL—- that is laughing. When millions have died from this virus. 

it takes ALL of us to follow the health recommendations and get vaccinated if possible to get ahead of this virus and varients. 
one or two practices are not enough, but contribute to reaching the results we want. 

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4 minutes ago, Grego said:

This is all so bizarre, but not as bizarre as Michigan which is mandating that children 2 years old and older wear masks.  There are too many people playing doctor that don't have any sense.

 


Bizarre—-we are living it. Everywhere in this world. 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Which it is not.  Plus it's federal law that you must wear a mask on flights.  if you refuse, you're kicked off.  If you remove the mask, other than to eat or drink, you'll face a possible fine or more.  They're taking this thing very seriously.

 

Agree......airlines, airports and TSA have strict protocols in place to stop the spread of COVID - 19 backed up by fines.

 

Lest not forget the 40 cruise ships that had outbreaks of COVID-19 at the beginning of the pandemic and how they handled the situation and that some people spent weeks on ships just sailing to nowhere while isolated in their cabins.  

 

The cruise lines brought it on themselves, not the CDC,  and are not really trustworthy regarding what they say they will do and what they will actually do when they are at sea in international waters.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_cruise_ships#Summary_of_confirmed_cases_on_board

 

Edited by PrincessLuver
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52 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

Lest not forget the 40 cruise ships that had outbreaks of COVID-19 at the beginning of the pandemic and how they handled the situation and that some people spent weeks on ships just sailing to nowhere while isolated in their cabins.  

agree to not forget ancient history , when planning current events - learn from it

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20 hours ago, dog said:

Some of us have truly tried to do our part, foregoing vacations in the past year, but there has been a large number coming through our airport in Toronto & returning by car in Buffalo/Niagara. Now Manitoba & Quebec borders are being monitored to stop nonessential travel.

I separate returning Canadians - have every right to re-enter Canada at any time - versus foreigners whose travel here is likely discretionary.  And a lot of returning citizens are snowbirds been living away for extended time and are not the problem.  It is false to presume that a returning Canadian is infected and a spreader of Covid-19.  But that is what the government is trying to implant in people's minds. 

 

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