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Carnival CEO Says No Vaccination Requirement


Djptcp
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His analogy to plane transportation is way off.  Yes you’re sitting next to someone for a few hours on a plane but you don’t then leave the plane, spend several hours on tour or in a city and then get back on the plane...day after day after day.  That’s what cruising is.

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I’m not too concerned about this announcement.  I suspect it will change as vaccinations continue to be delivered.  I also understand that foreign countries may require the vaccination as a condition to enter their country.  This would allow any of the CCL brands to say it’s because of them not us that you must prove you are vaccinated.

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It is encouraging that he said "So we’ll follow what the regulations are wherever it is." (in @Djptcp post #1) and the article ends with "And, of course, we will follow whatever the rules are wherever we go." (message #45 from @rucrazy)

 

I agree that  for the foreseeable future vaccinations should be required of passengers and crew. 

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I think we might over reacting here. Donald said "we will follow the regulations where we are". It sounds to me like he is playing the next card in the game of making the CDC make the tough decisions,  be the bad guy, and force vaccination to sail. If the CDC requires fully vaccinated, including crew, it sounds like Carnival would follow.

 

To those who questioned " what happens when a Carnival ship shows up at a port, and not allowed in because you didn't require vaccination?". Seriously...you don't think the cruise lines won't know in advance a given country requires vaccination to enter? Obviously,  the cruise line,if not requiring vaccinations,  would skip or not schedule the ports requiring vaccinations. 

 

There has to be a balanced thought process here. Vaccination is not yet widespread, so requiring vaccine narrows your possible group of customers.  Yes, every day, we vaccinate more, but worldwide the number is still very slowly increasing. If fully vaccinated, including crew, is going to be a requirement, that will push back the resumption of sailing. July would be wishful thinking. I can't believe the ships sailing in Europe are fully vaccinated...how could they be?

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There are other cruise lines and other places to spend my vacation dollars.  If vaccinations aren't required for crew and passengers on HAL cruises I'll be cancelling my February cruise.

 

CEO's have been known to make major mistakes that ruined or almost ruined corporations.  Remember how big Kodak was?  Remember how big Sears was?  Remember when AOL was the be all end all of the Internet?  Remember Circuit City, Toy's R Us, etc.?  I hope Carnival Corp doesn't join the list.

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9 hours ago, iceman93 said:

But if they think this is a catastrophic move that is misreading the market, I would suggest a little more humility.  No company the size of CCL is going to make a public statement like this without well-understanding the implications.  It may hit right in the ego, but for every poster here who shakes their head and says they're going to cancel their cruise, I suspect there's someone else out there ready to swoop in and take that booking.

 

It would be very odd if Carnival places their bet on not requiring vaccinations for any of their brands. They are the largest of the cruise entities and surveys/polls have consistently shown that around 85% give or take want to sail on ships that are fully vaccinated. So is Carnival aiming for the 15%?  Very dubious business strategy...

 

What I suspect is that either only a few Carnival brands will ultimately sail "no vax required" OR that this statement is pure PR because ultimately Carnival Corp will bow to the prevailing winds of whatever country requirements are -- but to their customer base they don't have to look like the "bad guy" (which is pretty despicable in my book).

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, cruzingnut said:

I just found this.  Our wonderful governor....ugh....  While he's done some good things, there are other things...not so good.

==============================

"DeSantis’ press office on Monday (4/12) asserted that his recent executive order barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccinated customers extends to cruise lines operating in Florida.

“The Governor’s Executive Order provides that businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business,” press secretary Cody McCloud said by email. “Therefore, the Executive Order prohibits cruise lines from requiring vaccine passports for their Florida operations.”

==============================

So, we basically have to hope that the CDC requires them.  That will nip all this foolishness in the bud.  But, they have to get off their butts and finally come up with those guidelines the cruise lines have been waiting for since last year!

Linda R.


I live in Florida too. The CEO’s words are almost exactly like those in the  Executive order.  He also forbids anyone to issue a vaccine passport or proof of vaccine.  Hopefully my card will be proof enough.  It’s only going to take one or two outbreaks on ships to shut them down again.  We only cruise on HAL, but won’t go without the vaccine requirement.

Edited by ArizonatoFlorida
Additional information.
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Great thread to read!  My two cents.... 🙂   

I am an American and believe in free choice, that being said, we are losing those basic rights everyday so I understand that point of view. 

I personally would take the shot, even if my employer didn't mandate it. Which by the way, they did because I have to travel with my job. Actually I am looking forward to getting my second shot this week.  

My wife has made it very clear, we (yes, when she says something, it becomes we....) won't be cruising if they don't have vaccine requirement.  She is a surgeons RN and can't risk it. 

So if HAL doesn't have vaccine requirement for employees and passenger's, we won't be cruising with HAL.  Which is sad, because we've already had cancelled cruises with them and really want to cruise! 🙂  

 

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I don't know about you guys, but I have a final payment coming up in just a few weeks (May 3) for the Rotterdam inaugural.  This announcement has astounded and horrified me!  I'm just hoping that something changes before I must make my final commitment for that cruise.  I'm fully vaccinated so...perhaps?...safe from severe manifestation of disease.  However, I still don't want to go if vaccination not required for all pax and crew.

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I always take the view that a business is a free enterprise and they are free to succeed or fail by their own hand.  That said, I did attend at least the first 2 hours of the Carnival Corporation Global Health Summit on April 15 and the health sector panel were all 100% of the Fauci/CDC/NHI camp.  I assume these same panelist are the source from which CCL is drawing advice.   CCL was pretty clear that they would follow whatever guidelines that the CDC presented and I think that is right.  They or other businesses do not need or want to create guidelines that could very well be challenged in court.  There are already lawsuits being readied to challenge any mandates.  There are valid and good reasons people do not get vaccines.

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"DeSantis’ press office on Monday (4/12) asserted that his recent executive order barring businesses from requiring proof of vaccinated customers extends to cruise lines operating in Florida.

“The Governor’s Executive Order provides that businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business,” press secretary Cody McCloud said by email. “Therefore, the Executive Order prohibits cruise lines from requiring vaccine passports for their Florida operations.”

 

In the so called "free" state of Florida, this hypocracy is typical. Let's get on with safe cruising.

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12 hours ago, RuthC said:

That was my question, too. I thought he was head of the cruise line. Isn't Arison head of the corporation? 
Are some people jumping to the wrong conclusion? 

He is Chief Executive Officer of Carnival Corporation, the parent company.  He would speak for all lines under that umbrella.  Christine Duffy is the head of Carnival Cruise Lines.  I have heard that Donald said he sees a "distinction" between various lines within the umbrella, so perhaps HAL and other lines like Princess will have a vaccine requirement.  I think any distinction is shortsighted because the Carnival line ships could mess things up for all lines if there are hiccups due to outbreaks. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, S&B said:

I do not understand his thinking.  What is going to happen when a ship goes in to port and the Port Authority says......   Is everyone on your ship vaccinated including passengers and crew?  If not your ship cannot dock here.

  We are on 2 cruises in 2022 and I can very easily see that happening.  I believe Iceland has already said that everyone has to be vaccinated.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

They should know that ahead of time.  Any person who is not vaccinated will not be able to even board the ship at it's port of origin.  If there are last minute decisions by a country, then any unvaccinated person on board will not be allowed to disembark in that port.  This kind of situation is likely to happen anyway while the pandemic is ongoing because of localized outbreaks, new testing requirements for entering the country, etc.  It has already happened on some of the current European cruising.  I guess everybody has to go into pandemic cruising understanding that and be prepared to be flexible. 

Edited by harkinmr
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"And we respect personal choice and personal liberty."

 

This to me was the most disturbing part of the statement, aside from his false claims about access to the vaccine and the legality of a mandate.  So "personal choice and personal liberty" are what allows him to avoid what is best for his passengers?  Apparently, he is spending far too much time on Facebook, as others have said.  Will "personal choice and personal liberty" be the way his cruise lines deal with other health protocols on board: if someone says they feel it is an affront to their "liberty" and refuses to comply then all bets are off?  Should be a fun cruise.  Not.

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50 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

He is Chief Executive Officer of Carnival Corporation, the parent company.  He would speak for all lines under that umbrella.  Christine Duffy is the head of Carnival Cruise Lines.  I have heard that Donald said he sees a "distinction" between various lines within the umbrella, so perhaps HAL and other lines like Princess will have a vaccine requirement.  I think any distinction is shortsighted because the Carnival line ships could mess things up for all lines if there are hiccups due to outbreaks. 

It does seem that everyone is forgetting the part of his statement that there is a distinction between different lines under the Carnival Corporation umbrella when it comes to mandating vaccines or not.

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3 hours ago, Crazy For Cats said:

I’m not too concerned about this announcement.  I suspect it will change as vaccinations continue to be delivered.  I also understand that foreign countries may require the vaccination as a condition to enter their country.  This would allow any of the CCL brands to say it’s because of them not us that you must prove you are vaccinated.

It puzzles me that the cruise lines would think this way, but given some of the pushback they are receiving on protocols it's not surprising.  Why are the cruise lines acting like public opinion should govern what they do at the restart?  Science should govern and they should proudly and forcefully promote their protocols as evidence of their commitment to passenger safety.  

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3 hours ago, Heartgrove said:

 

New guidelines for Iceland are due around May 1. Iceland currently will allow non-vaccinated tourists to visit. They will be required to have been tested with negative results before boarding the plane, another test upon arrival that will need to be negative, and then quarantine at a hotel with extremely limited movement for five days and then another test with negative results. Any tourist with a  positive result will be sent back to their home country. No onward movement to another Schengen country will be allowed.

 

If you have been fully vaccinated at least two weeks prior or can provide proof of a previous infection and now negative will only require the test at the airport upon arrival. A short quarantine at a hotel is required until results are known. Then free movement in the country but following government guidelines in place.

 

We are on a Viking Ocean cruise around Iceland in 90 days so i have kept current regarding Iceland`s requirements.. The cruise requires 100% vaccination of passengers and crew along with mask wearing everywhere but your cabin and while eating. Other health protocols will be in effect as well.

Going to be interesting how they send people back with a positive test, if their home country, such as the US requires a negative test for them to fly back or quarantine for 10 days before being able to fly back.

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I guess I'm not all that surprised.  They made a shoddy exit from the marketplace at the beginning of the pandemic (kinda last in the water) and their re-entrance is also shoddy.

Somebody on one of these threads made the statement that it was appearing Carnival just wants to pick up where they left off.  So it would seem.

 

I'm sad.  But this pandemic has taught us all to be flexible and resourceful  We'll be shopping around.

 

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Posted (edited)

I would like to make couple of points.  Three of Donald's lines already do require vaccination to sail, they are Cunard, P&O and Princess all sailing from Britain.  I do not believe the CDC can legally mandate any vaccines as they cannot be mandated under an Emergency Use Authorization, only with full FDA approval which none of the vaccines have.  Even though Carnival may not mandate fully vaccinated sailings, he is indicating they will follow government requirements - not necessarily meaning the US Government alone, but the requirements of other nations Carnival will call on.  (Donald repeatedly said "we will follow whatever the rules are wherever we go"Donald may be saying that Carnival won't be the source of a vaccine mandate for a cruise but they will pass along any vaccine mandates from other applicable jurisdictions.

 

I suggest taking a deep breath before committing oneself to cancelling their cruise based on this one statement from one media source.  Let's just see how this plays out and hope for the best.

Edited by Daniel A
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1 minute ago, Daniel A said:

I suggest taking a deep breath........  Let's just see how this plays out and hope for the best.

That is about all we can do isn't it?!

 

Joseph

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