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If vaccinations are required, how are the cruise lines going to check for compliance?


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Some cruise lines are already saying vaccines will be required. Many of us on these forums are saying we will not sail on a ship unless everyone is vaccinated.

 

An example of why this will not be easy to accomplish. A staff member at my wife's school has possibly exposed others including DW to Covid. She got an e-mail from her school district that she might have been exposed and might have to quarantine for 10 days, and to expect a call from the NY State Health Department. Now since she has had both her vaccinations, we know that the CDC says no need for quarantine. This morning she got the call. She told them she had her vaccinations. She got the card and read off the place, the dates, and the batch numbers. This is what a cruise line would see. The response from the NY State Health department was we'll call you back tomorrow to confirm that you do not have to quarantine for the 10 days, but until then stay away from people.

 

Now if a health department from the state where the vaccine was administered needs a day to check, how is a cruise line supposed to do this at embarkation?

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Maybe  you will have to submit documentation a week or so before  plus they will be testing people  at the port  before boarding

 

I have not seen any information saying once vaccinated you cannot still catch or spread the virus 🤔

This  is a new World out there

Hope your DW is fine

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No cruise line concerned about its future will be lax about this. Whether it’s some sort of vaccine passport (not unlike what is already underway in NY) or third party app that issues a QR code or a list of acceptable proofs (e.g., a MyChart medical record entry), something other than that currently issued card will be required at embarkation. And the smart/safe lines may still require an immediate results negative pre-boarding Covid test at the port of embarkation.

 

FWIW: On Feb. 3, 2020, we were starting an Oceania cruise in Cape Town and beyond the normal requirement for passport submission, there was the usual medical questionnaire to which was added a temp check and verbal inquiry regarding recent travel to China. But, that wasn’t the end of it. There was a special area set aside where a small team of young women were perusing every passport - page by page - for evidence of Chinese visas recently used. Needless to say there were some unhappy passengers and joining crew when they were denied boarding.


My point is that cruise lines stand a lot to lose for not being vigilant. After all, that family they turn away doesn’t even represent a rounding error in their daily bottom line business. 
It’s just not worth the risk to not require hyper vigilance in a Covid environment.

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my dh and I both got vaccinated, have cards documenting dates and vaccination.  I plan to put with out passports.  We don't use smart phones.  Vaccinations were not documented in our regular medical records, one done by local pharmacy (CVS), the other done thru a county drive thru.  

 

So what ever way cruise lines decided to confirm vaccinations, will have to be very flexible since documentation will vary.   

 

 

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Could they require an antigen test test before boarding.  I believe that you get results from that test really fast.

 

Quick response to Pris993's response.  The problem w his suggestion that the cruise lines have to be very flexible in verifying vaccinations means that there will be more ways to beat the system.  There should have been a national government system to track who has gotten the shots but it is too late to start that now unless the states allow the feds to access their vaccination records.  Can you imagine all of the states actually allowing that to happen.

 

DON

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7 minutes ago, pris993 said:

my dh and I both got vaccinated, have cards documenting dates and vaccination.  I plan to put with out passports.  We don't use smart phones.  Vaccinations were not documented in our regular medical records, one done by local pharmacy (CVS), the other done thru a county drive thru.  

 

So what ever way cruise lines decided to confirm vaccinations, will have to be very flexible since documentation will vary.   

 

 

Some have speculated that the 'cards' aren't going to be adequate as it would be a breeze to forge them.  

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2 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Maybe  you will have to submit documentation a week or so before  plus they will be testing people  at the port  before boarding

 

I have not seen any information saying once vaccinated you cannot still catch or spread the virus 🤔

This  is a new World out there

Hope your DW is fine

Yes, she is fine. She and I are fully vaccinated. AND THE CDC SAYS THAT MEANS YOU DO NOT HAVE TO QUARANTINE.

 

Is there an extremely small chance she could still get infected. I guess so, but you get the vaccine to make that chance that small. Could she also die in a car accident, have a heart attack, get hit by lightning, or by a Martian death ray? Well, probably not get hit by a Martian death ray.

 

You get vaccinated for 2 reasons. The first is to protect yourself and others around you,. The second is to help society achieve herd immunity. Unfortunately, there seem to be so many anti-vaxxers that the second is just a pipe dream.

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1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

Could they require an antigen test test before boarding.  I believe that you get results from that test really fast.

 

Quick response to Pris993's response.  The problem w his suggestion that the cruise lines have to be very flexible in verifying vaccinations means that there will be more ways to beat the system.  There should have been a national government system to track who has gotten the shots but it is too late to start that now unless the states allow the feds to access their vaccination records.  Can you imagine all of the states actually allowing that to happen.

 

DON

 

An edit to my post.

 

One way to force the states to cooperate w a national vaccination registry would be for the CDC to require that groups verify from a national registry that a person has been vaccinated before they can do certain national regulated activities - such as cruising, getting on an airplane, etc.  If Texas or Florida for example decided not to participate in the national vaccination registry, nobody could force them to do it.  However, when the people of Texas or Florida found that they could not take a cruise, get on an airplane or do other federally regulated activities, they might force the state to change their mind.

 

What do you think of that idea?

 

DON

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2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Some cruise lines are already saying vaccines will be required. Many of us on these forums are saying we will not sail on a ship unless everyone is vaccinated.

 

An example of why this will not be easy to accomplish. A staff member at my wife's school has possibly exposed others including DW to Covid. She got an e-mail from her school district that she might have been exposed and might have to quarantine for 10 days, and to expect a call from the NY State Health Department. Now since she has had both her vaccinations, we know that the CDC says no need for quarantine. This morning she got the call. She told them she had her vaccinations. She got the card and read off the place, the dates, and the batch numbers. This is what a cruise line would see. The response from the NY State Health department was we'll call you back tomorrow to confirm that you do not have to quarantine for the 10 days, but until then stay away from people.

 

Now if a health department from the state where the vaccine was administered needs a day to check, how is a cruise line supposed to do this at embarkation?

 

Viking Ocean's policy requires submitting vaccination confirmation/record card to Viking at least 14 days before embarkation. Then at 1 week, each pax will receive an emailed Health questionnaire and depending on answers provided you may receive a secondary health screening call prior to departure.

 

At embarkation you must:

  • submit the vaccination confirmation/record card,
  • receive a temperature check with temp < 38C/100F
  • receive a negative result from a ship performed PCR test using a saliva sample
  • complete and pass COVID &  health questions
  • accept and agree to wear contact tracing technology throughout the cruise

 

Only once the above is completed, including waiting for the PCR test result from the onboard laboratory, will you be provided access to the ship.

 

These requirements are sent to each pax prior to the cruise, so you are aware of the requirements.

 

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1 hour ago, pris993 said:

my dh and I both got vaccinated, have cards documenting dates and vaccination.  I plan to put with out passports.  We don't use smart phones.  Vaccinations were not documented in our regular medical records, one done by local pharmacy (CVS), the other done thru a county drive thru.  

 

So what ever way cruise lines decided to confirm vaccinations, will have to be very flexible since documentation will vary.   

 

 

You’re dreaming if you think there will be any flexibility beyond something like, at least, a QR code viewable on your phone or printed at home (or hotel) from an electronic medical record (either notated immediately after vaccination or added to by your physician with acceptable proof at a later date). The latter printed process would be similar to how airline boarding passes are done now.
 

Whether on your phone or printed from the internet, the QR code (readable at embarkation) would be far less possible to counterfeit when compared to the current Covid vaccination cards or even the long-standing WHO “yellow” cards currently used for Yellow Fever vaccine or waiver.

 

Whatever folks do with the current Covid card, they should make double sure that there is also a new entry in an existing medical record (if you received the vaccine from one of your existing healthcare providers) or in a newly created medical record if you received the vaccine at a pop-up or different health provider. The good news is that there is a bona fide medical record of that vaccination somewhere.

 

But, it is our job to make sure that the original recording of vaccination is also placed in an easily accessible/acceptable record like MyChart (or some other EPIC syncable record system). 

FWIW: soon after each day that I received one of the two Moderna shots from our County Heath Department (chosen in part because they use MyChart medical records, which already serves more than 100 million US patients), I electronically synced that MyChart record with my primary MyChart record at UC San Francisco (where all my medical history resides).
 

That true/electronic proof of vaccination is immediately accessible on my iPhone or from any other internet device on which I access that page of my medical record. And, should a third party vaccine passport happen sooner than later, providing the required evidence via that electronic medical record will be spared the scrutiny sure to be given to a dog-eared card (which hopefully wasn’t misplaced in the pile of “to do” papers at home).

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In a perfect world  it would be  a good plan for Countries to attach the Vaccine info to your passports

(with your permission of course)

 

 I am all for  that idea  rather than having to print off a QR code or buy a smart phone just to show at the airport or cruise port 😲

YMMV

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19 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

In a perfect world  it would be  a good plan for Countries to attach the Vaccine info to your passports

(with your permission of course)

 

 I am all for  that idea  rather than having to print off a QR code or buy a smart phone just to show at the airport or cruise port 😲

YMMV

 

This is a logical thing to do.  It might might require issuing new passports so such information about one's vaccinations could be electronically entered in the passport.  That information could then show when the document is scanned.  

 

3 hours ago, pris993 said:

I plan to put with out passports.  We don't use smart phones.  Vaccinations were not documented in our regular medical records, one done by local pharmacy (CVS), the other done thru a county drive thru.  

 

 

Both of my shots were done at my local CVS.  I have put that CDC document with my Yellow Vaccination Folder which I always take with my passport.  I am going to ask my PCP if he would be willing/able to document that data directly into the Yellow Folder.

 

Not blaming anyone, but, this situation was so unexpected and we were so unprepared, that how to provide a permanent record of vaccinations against Covid surely didn't cross anyone's minds a year ago or even when it appeared that the vaccines would be available during late Fall, 2020.  

 

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"If vaccinations are required, how are the cruise lines going to check for compliance?"

 

Here's a wild thought: instead of asking a forum full of people who don't work for the cruise lines, why not contact the lines directly and ask them? Horse's mouth instead of casual speculation.

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1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You’re dreaming if you think there will be any flexibility beyond something like, at least, a QR code viewable on your phone or printed at home (or hotel) from an electronic medical record (either notated immediately after vaccination or added to by your physician with acceptable proof at a later date). The latter printed process would be similar to how airline boarding passes are done now.
 

Whether on your phone or printed from the internet, the QR code (readable at embarkation) would be far less possible to counterfeit when compared to the current Covid vaccination cards or even the long-standing WHO “yellow” cards currently used for Yellow Fever vaccine or waiver.

 

Whatever folks do with the current Covid card, they should make double sure that there is also a new entry in an existing medical record (if you received the vaccine from one of your existing healthcare providers) or in a newly created medical record if you received the vaccine at a pop-up or different health provider. The good news is that there is a bona fide medical record of that vaccination somewhere.

 

But, it is our job to make sure that the original recording of vaccination is also placed in an easily accessible/acceptable record like MyChart (or some other EPIC syncable record system). 

FWIW: soon after each day that I received one of the two Moderna shots from our County Heath Department (chosen in part because they use MyChart medical records, which already serves more than 100 million US patients), I electronically synced that MyChart record with my primary MyChart record at UC San Francisco (where all my medical history resides).
 

That true/electronic proof of vaccination is immediately accessible on my iPhone or from any other internet device on which I access that page of my medical record. And, should a third party vaccine passport happen sooner than later, providing the required evidence via that electronic medical record will be spared the scrutiny sure to be given to a dog-eared card (which hopefully wasn’t misplaced in the pile of “to do” papers at home).

It is interesting to note that Iceland, which allows travel with proof of vaccination, requires the proof to include a signature and a passport number.  So it is anybody's guess as to what will constitute proof.  I doubt cruise lines will require anything but the minimum, but they most likely will  need to conform to the requirements of the country they are sailing from.  I am hoping for the best.

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3 hours ago, clo said:

Some have speculated that the 'cards' aren't going to be adequate as it would be a breeze to forge them.  

We will be heading to Greece for a vacation (island hopping) as well as a Seabourn cruise.  The Greek government will accept the US CDC cards as adequate proof as will Seabourn (although they still have not made a decision about testing).   I suspect the reality is that some folks will go through trouble and expense to beat the system and may well get away with the deed.  On the other hand, if they later get COVID and it is discovered that their information was false they certainly could be held liable by the cruise lines, all their fellow passengers, etc.  And some have suggested that using a fake CDC Card is a violation of Federal Law and a crime (I do not know if that is really true).

 

The fact that the Greek government has already their policy will put some pressure on other European governments to adopt a similar policy.  If each EU country goes in its' own direction there will be some chaos and possible problems with border crossings at what is normally open borders.

 

Hank

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1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

 If Texas or Florida for example decided not to participate in the national vaccination registry, nobody could force them to do it.  However, when the people of Texas or Florida found that they could not take a cruise, get on an airplane or do other federally regulated activities, they might force the state to change their mind.

 

What do you think of that idea?

 

DON

 

Texas has a voluntary vaccination registry called ImmTrac2 (it replaced the original ImmTrac). Its website states there are “9.1 million Texans’ immunization records” and “33,000 organizations store them in one place”. Texas does not seem to need a national registry.

 

When completing paperwork to receive the COVID shots, it seemed to be “required” to complete the form to opt-in to having the administered shots noted in the registry. I said I didn’t want to participate, but the person (who was a volunteer from the community) said I had to complete all the forms (I was not going to argue as she was just doing what she was told). As I had already studied the ImmTrac2 website, I knew I could withdraw my consent after I had received both shots.

 

Texans who opted in to ImmTrac2 can complete a form and get a copy of their COVID shot administration if, for some reason, they cannot get the record from their doctor.


 

3 hours ago, pris993 said:

 Vaccinations were not documented in our regular medical records, one done by local pharmacy (CVS), the other done thru a county drive thru.  

Both of my shots were also done out in the community (at churches who were set up to administer them). My doctor was fine with getting a message, including a copy of the immunization card, (I used a MyChart message) to have it noted in my medical record. But I imagine your doctor would be happy to note your shots if you bring the card to your next visit!

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1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

But, it is our job to make sure that the original recording of vaccination is also placed in an easily accessible/acceptable record like MyChart (or some other EPIC syncable record system). 

Hey, thanks for that. I hadn't checked so did just now and it's on MyChart.

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I do understand that many of us here on CC love to speculate and we are sometimes right and sometimes wrong.  But in the case of proof of vaccination (for Americans) we do have reality as opposed to speculation.  As I mentioned earlier, Greece is the first European country to open up to Americans (and soon to just about everyone) who have been vaccinated without the necessity of a COVID test.  Greece has their specifications on their app and it says "  vaccination certificate issued by an appropriate authority."  Apparently this will include the common CDC Vaccination Card issued to most Americans when they get vaccinated.  The app further states : "All certificates must include the critical information in English and the full name must match with that of the passport or other travel document."  

 

Greece also will accept, as an alternative, "a negative PCR test from a laboratory, maximum 72 hours before entry"

 

Greece further says that travelers may, at random. be selected for testing (they have rapid Antigen tests at the entry points).

 

So folks can continue to speculate but what I am posting is reality for one country and it has been in effect since this past Monday (4/19).

 

I should also mention that Greece further requires folks to complete a Passenger Location Form (PLF) no later then 23:59 of the day before arriving in Greece.  There is a link to that on the app.

 

Hank

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6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Some cruise lines are already saying vaccines will be required. Many of us on these forums are saying we will not sail on a ship unless everyone is vaccinated.

 

An example of why this will not be easy to accomplish. A staff member at my wife's school has possibly exposed others including DW to Covid. She got an e-mail from her school district that she might have been exposed and might have to quarantine for 10 days, and to expect a call from the NY State Health Department. Now since she has had both her vaccinations, we know that the CDC says no need for quarantine. This morning she got the call. She told them she had her vaccinations. She got the card and read off the place, the dates, and the batch numbers. This is what a cruise line would see. The response from the NY State Health department was we'll call you back tomorrow to confirm that you do not have to quarantine for the 10 days, but until then stay away from people.

 

Now if a health department from the state where the vaccine was administered needs a day to check, how is a cruise line supposed to do this at embarkation?

Your question doesn’t make any sense.

For many decades, cruise lines (and countries) have required all pax and crew to provide proof of vaccination for Yellow Fever on certain itineraries.

The procedures are very simple. Pax provide copies of their “Yellow Card” when booking the cruise, and then are asked to show the original to the staff when checking in. It tastes just a few seconds, and causes no delays in boarding.

If the pax do not have their Yellow Cards, they are not allowed to board the ship.

With COVID, the proof of the vaccine may take a different form, but that really does not matter. The procedures will be essentially the same.

With COVID, however, there will be an additional procedure offered. Nearly all the cruise lines that are re-starting operations in the next few months now have onboard certified COVID testing equipment. If there are any questions or doubts about the health of any pax or crew, they can be tested before boarding. The actual test takes less than one minute to administer, and results are available in 40 minutes.

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1 hour ago, Donald said:

With COVID, however, there will be an additional procedure offered. Nearly all the cruise lines that are re-starting operations in the next few months now have onboard certified COVID testing equipment. If there are any questions or doubts about the health of any pax or crew, they can be tested before boarding. The actual test takes less than one minute to administer, and results are available in 40 minutes.

But one can test negative and be asymptomatic and still infect others.

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3 hours ago, mom says said:

"If vaccinations are required, how are the cruise lines going to check for compliance?"

 

Here's a wild thought: instead of asking a forum full of people who don't work for the cruise lines, why not contact the lines directly and ask them? Horse's mouth instead of casual speculation.

🤣  once again your radiant brilliance shatters glass.

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4 hours ago, Donald said:

.....For many decades, cruise lines (and countries) have required all pax and crew to provide proof of vaccination for Yellow Fever on certain itineraries......

Not exactly. Many of the premium/luxury lines inform you regarding what countries require YF vaccine but then advise you to decide what to do in consultation with your MD. Yes, the WHO Yellow Card may be required (or just advised). But, it may indicate “vaccination” or “waiver” (re: age over 65) and it will definitely be acceptable by a cruise line and most likely acceptable by a country “requiring” YF vaccine (e.g., French Guiana doesn’t even check).

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