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Cruising Without a Vaccination


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16 minutes ago, JRG said:

 

Agreed.    I'm with you.  I know that,  and you know that and so do others here.   How do we convince the non-vaxxing others without encroaching their value and beliefs.   

 

 

To keep in context:   these threads are about cruising.  We probably cannot convince the non-vaxxing others - we should just hope (and encourage cruise line’s) that they will simply not be permitted to cruise.

 

We need not concern ourselves about their “value and beliefs” (if any).

 

The fact is - if you let one non-vaxxer cruise, you must permit others.  As soon as there are two or more, there is the chance of infection which could disrupt the cruise by cancelling ports, requiring quarantine, etc. —- and more immediately requiring more stringent restrictions: masks, social distancing, limited port experience, etc.

 

They cannot be forced to be vaccinated - but they can be prevented from negatively impacting others.

 

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13 hours ago, JRG said:

 

Agreed.    I'm with you.  I know that,  and you know that and so do others here.   How do we convince the non-vaxxing others without encroaching their value and beliefs.   There is no right answer.   For example,  there may be health,  citizenship or even criminal history reasons why individuals don't want to show their drivers license or id or get the dna sampled.   (is that happening,  I don't think so but how do I really know for sure).    For an interesting example to muse:

 

Think of how many cold cases and unsolved crimes could be solved by matching dna from evidence to dna from vaccinations.    I think you will see that happening in other places in the world.

 

As for cruising without a vaccination,  if you know anybody who is reluctant,   tell them that 

it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

 

 

 

I don't get how they would sneak a DNA sample while giving the vaccine.   BTW, if they really want DNA samples, they are welcome to mine!  Kind of like have fingerprints on file and way down the list of things I worry about.  But I understand a criminal might think otherwise.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ldubs said:

BTW, if they really want DNA samples, they are welcome to mine!  Kind of like have fingerprints on file and way down the list of things I worry about.  But I understand a criminal might think otherwise.  

 

I wouldn't be so blasé about DNA. As the case of Henrietta Lacks demonstrates taking someone's biological material has much further reaching consequences. Genealogy websites are able to making a lot of money selling DNA results because there is market beyond just identifying people. 

Your DNA is a valuable asset, so why give it to ancestry websites for free?

 

In saying all that no one needs to worry about vaccines being some undercover pretext to steal people's DNA😂

Edited by ilikeanswers
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2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I wouldn't be so blasé about DNA. As the case of Henrietta Lacks demonstrates taking someone's biological material has much further reaching consequences. Genealogy websites are able to making a lot of money selling DNA results because there is market beyond just identifying people. 

Your DNA is a valuable asset, so why give it to ancestry websites for free?

 

In saying all that no one needs to worry about vaccines being some undercover pretext to steal people's DNA😂

 

I wouldn't have described it as blasé, but I suppose that could fit as I really am not concerned.   I haven't used any ancestry websites.  Not something I plan on doing anytime soon.  

 

It is an interesting moral issue.  Withhold DNA because I'm not being paid, or provide the DNA so others might eventually benefit from medical research.  IDK.       

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Posted (edited)

If the government wanted to gather DNA there are a million ways to do it.  We all drop hair, skin, saliva all the time.  Doctors at nearly every health plan run regular blood tests.  Inserting something at the major blood labs would collect like 95% of the population, if there was any desire at all.  Wouldnt need hardly any effort relative to organizing 100,000 secret dna collectors at 10,000 vaccine site.

 

The idea alone is so preposterous a person would need to have zero experience with large scale efforts of any sort to even believe or suggest it.  So every nurse in the country administering shots is secretly in agreement and not one of the thousands of nurses or doctors is telling.  Geeze.

 

PS. Im friendly with the CEO of one of the famous DNA services. The information is valuable, but the regulations and privacy protections over its use are also quite strict.  Conspiracy nuts gonna make stuff up, but the world is too messy for real global conspiracies to actually exist.  One might like to imagine their DNA is valuable, but people can fantasize they might play basketball like LBJ too.  Valuable DNA is a one in a million thing.  Your DNA info is likely worth what your family is willing to pay a service to learn stuff about yourself, less the cost of analysis.  Could help future medical care, but only for your own benefit.  No one else cares TBH.

Edited by Pizzasteve
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Posted (edited)

I do not understand the need to convince anti vaxxers that getting the jab wil notl encroach on their values and beliefs.

 

No one is forcing anti vaxxers to get a covid vaccination.  Various travel vendors/suppliers may, and probably will in the short term, make having the vaccine a condition of passage.  Countries may do the same.

 

This is all about choice.  Make a choice and deal with the consequences.  Not getting the covid vaccine will probably greatly reduce a persons travel options.  It is a choice that they freely make.  

 

There will be exactly the same issue with some employers who make having the vaccine a condition of employment.   We all make life choices.

Edited by iancal
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On 4/30/2021 at 11:28 AM, clo said:

How do you come up with that? Citation please.

No, you are not.  My daughter had it back last summer and also has Lupus.  Her doctor told her to vaccinated ASAP.  If you do get covid after vaccination, it will keep you from getting too sick.

Also, you will feel the most freeing and relieved feelings after being vaccinated.  I truly did not realize how depressed and worried I was through this quarentine until vaccinated .  And many friends have expressed their surprise also.

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On 4/29/2021 at 11:00 PM, grandpalarry777 said:

Does anyone know if any cruise lines will allow a person who cannot take the Covid vaccine due to health conditions to get an exemption from the "vaccinated only" cruise rules if they have a negative test?

  I've done some rearch online . Hos[itals, medical schools, doctors etc.  I haven;t found a single reputable site tha names any specific medical condition where vaccination is prohibited. Perhaps if you could tell us the actual " health condition"?

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17 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

I don't get how they would sneak a DNA sample while giving the vaccine.   BTW, if they really want DNA samples, they are welcome to mine!  Kind of like have fingerprints on file and way down the list of things I worry about.  But I understand a criminal might think otherwise.  

I'm almost positive that when I worked for CDC - back in the 60s mind you - that I was finger printed. Who cares?

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2 hours ago, LynnTTT said:

  I've done some rearch online . Hos[itals, medical schools, doctors etc.  I haven;t found a single reputable site tha names any specific medical condition where vaccination is prohibited. Perhaps if you could tell us the actual " health condition"?


The doctor in the house says the condition is called “in una persona billion” (or something like that) 

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15 hours ago, LynnTTT said:

  I've done some rearch online . Hos[itals, medical schools, doctors etc.  I haven;t found a single reputable site tha names any specific medical condition where vaccination is prohibited. Perhaps if you could tell us the actual " health condition"?

 

Medical condition? Probably not. Mental condition? Most definitely. Bat crap crazy.

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I love how some people get their rocks off on insulting and demonizing people who think differently than they do.  In is an interesting persuasion technique.  I remember the time I went into an appliance store and asked the salesman about the resolution of a tv.  He called me an idiot, so I bought 3 of them.

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Well, 6 months after the EUAs were authorized, both Pfizer and Moderna confirmed that they plan to submit for full authorization of their respective vaccines. 

 

Pfizer and BioNTech announced today that they initiated a rolling submission of a Biologics License Application with the FDA for full approval of their mRNA vaccine in individuals 16 years and older. 

 

Guess that will remove one more excuse of the "vaccine hesitant"....

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21 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

...

 

Guess that will remove one more excuse of the "vaccine hesitant"....

Sadly, it is very difficult to convince unthinking people to think;  and it is really a multi-tined situation.  

 

 There are those who do not understand the science sufficiently to see the benefit to themselves (forget about everyone else on the planet) and prefer to stick with the ignorance with which they were born.

 

Then there are those who see conspiracies everywhere - and tend to think that people are out to poison them - or load them up with malevolent mini-chips.

 

Then there are simply the obscenely lazy and/or selfish who, having heard about “herd immunity” protecting everyone, decide that they will enjoy a free ride.

 

 

I am sure there are other sub-sets.

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On 5/6/2021 at 7:34 AM, Pizzasteve said:

If the government wanted to gather DNA there are a million ways to do it.  We all drop hair, skin, saliva all the time.  Doctors at nearly every health plan run regular blood tests.  Inserting something at the major blood labs would collect like 95% of the population, if there was any desire at all.  Wouldnt need hardly any effort relative to organizing 100,000 secret dna collectors at 10,000 vaccine site.

 

The idea alone is so preposterous a person would need to have zero experience with large scale efforts of any sort to even believe or suggest it.  So every nurse in the country administering shots is secretly in agreement and not one of the thousands of nurses or doctors is telling.  Geeze.

 

PS. Im friendly with the CEO of one of the famous DNA services. The information is valuable, but the regulations and privacy protections over its use are also quite strict.  Conspiracy nuts gonna make stuff up, but the world is too messy for real global conspiracies to actually exist.  One might like to imagine their DNA is valuable, but people can fantasize they might play basketball like LBJ too.  Valuable DNA is a one in a million thing.  Your DNA info is likely worth what your family is willing to pay a service to learn stuff about yourself, less the cost of analysis.  Could help future medical care, but only for your own benefit.  No one else cares TBH.

 

I wondered why those men in black have been hanging around the house!  😄

 

I think you put this very well.   I'm going to stick my neck out a little here.   The more I think about it the more I wonder why everyone is freaking out about their DNA.   If we have a national DNA registry, we would all probably be better off for it.   

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On 5/6/2021 at 2:54 PM, LynnTTT said:

  I've done some rearch online . Hos[itals, medical schools, doctors etc.  I haven;t found a single reputable site tha names any specific medical condition where vaccination is prohibited. Perhaps if you could tell us the actual " health condition"?

 

I had never really thought about this and now that you say it am not surprised.  But how about plain old fear.  I don't mean fear about nanobots, gov't control, or little green men.  I'm thinking more like a fear of flying.  

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For one, I am looking forward to the activation of the chip.  I want it to be able to sense the presence of antibodies from all of the 70+ years of vaccines I have had.  No need to carry a card, just point the scanner and see my status.  And maybe it will be able to notify me when I need a booster...  EM

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6 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Sadly, it is very difficult to convince unthinking people to think;  and it is really a multi-tined situation.  

 

 There are those who do not understand the science sufficiently to see the benefit to themselves (forget about everyone else on the planet) and prefer to stick with the ignorance with which they were born.

 

Then there are those who see conspiracies everywhere - and tend to think that people are out to poison them - or load them up with malevolent mini-chips.

 

Then there are simply the obscenely lazy and/or selfish who, having heard about “herd immunity” protecting everyone, decide that they will enjoy a free ride.

 

 

I am sure there are other sub-sets.

Lazy and selfish who are sitting on all that unemployment and not getting a job when there are millions of jobs available.

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11 minutes ago, Sky616 said:

Lazy and selfish who are sitting on all that unemployment and not getting a job when there are millions of jobs available.

 

Usually when there is a supply problem businesses are willing to pay more. For some reason this behavior does not seem to apply when labor is in short supply. 

 

If employers are having trouble securing employees the obvious solution is to offer better pay and employment conditions. Is that not how free enterprise is supposed to function?

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7 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Well, 6 months after the EUAs were authorized, both Pfizer and Moderna confirmed that they plan to submit for full authorization of their respective vaccines. 

 

Pfizer and BioNTech announced today that they initiated a rolling submission of a Biologics License Application with the FDA for full approval of their mRNA vaccine in individuals 16 years and older. 

 

Guess that will remove one more excuse of the "vaccine hesitant"....

 

Trust me - they will find another excuse.  Stupidity has no limits.

 

DON

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On 4/29/2021 at 10:00 PM, grandpalarry777 said:

Does anyone know if any cruise lines will allow a person who cannot take the Covid vaccine due to health conditions to get an exemption from the "vaccinated only" cruise rules if they have a negative test?

 

Up until July you can sail on American Queen Steamboat Company sailings with just a negative test. After they're requiring vaccines.

 

American Cruise Lines may allow you to sail with them on a negative test only but it will depend on date of departure and where it departs from, or so I read. Double check that with the cruise line, though. They may have updated to requiring for all 2021 cruises.

 

Cunard according to Travel & Leisure Magazine: 

 

Cunard's initial cruises will be open only to UK residents who are fully vaccinated at least seven days before boarding. Voyages departing on the Queen Elizabeth after Oct. 2, departing on Queen Mary 2 after Nov. 13, and departing on Queen Victoria after Aug. 28 will not carry the vaccine requirement.

 

Could only find where Norwegian is requiring vaccines through October 31st so far but they could always expand it.

 

Couldn't find anything on Princess other than vaccine required for cruises this summer.

 

Seabourn is requiring them for cruises out of Greece this summer.

 

Silversea is requiring vaccines except on cruises from Australia currently and UnCruise is going to require them except if you sail the Galapagos.

 

Celebrity, Victory Cruise Lines, Crystal, Virgin Voyages, Grand Circle Cruise Line, Windstar, Regent 7 Seas, Saga, Lindblad Expeditions, Oceania, Viking, Royal Caribbean, and P&O as far as I could find will require all pax be vaccinated going forward.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Sky616 said:

Lazy and selfish who are sitting on all that unemployment and not getting a job when there are millions of jobs available.

 

If the employers raise wages they will get employees. If they can't beat the unemployement rate then they are not paying enough. It is the employers being selfish. 

 

What does unemployment compensation have to do with cruising and vaccination? Antivaxxers like yourself are extending the pandemic and the time it will take to return to normal. Your normal for the foreseable future without vaccination will be no cruises. 

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12 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Usually when there is a supply problem businesses are willing to pay more. For some reason this behavior does not seem to apply when labor is in short supply. 

 

If employers are having trouble securing employees the obvious solution is to offer better pay and employment conditions. Is that not how free enterprise is supposed to function?

The problem is that the cost of labor should not get too close to the revenue that labor produces.  In the present situation the unemployment compensation - a good part of it not taxable as income (totally absurd to give such a benefit) is so generous that there is insufficient incentive to seek paid employment (all of it taxable).

 

The pool of low-end workers - largely the source of restaurant staff - is happier with government benefits than they would be with the economically practical salaries restaurants (which typically operate on very narrow margins) could pay.

 

Free enterprise has zero chance competing with the Federal government in the context of low-to-moderate income.

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39 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

If the employers raise wages they will get employees. If they can't beat the unemployement rate then they are not paying enough. It is the employers being selfish. 

 

...

No - it is a matter of the employers not being able to stay in business if their operating costs match their revenue.  It is the government being irresponsible.

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12 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Usually when there is a supply problem businesses are willing to pay more. For some reason this behavior does not seem to apply when labor is in short supply. 

 

If employers are having trouble securing employees the obvious solution is to offer better pay and employment conditions. Is that not how free enterprise is supposed to function?


In free enterprise employers compete for labor with other businesses.  Not with government largesse.

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