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Unvaccinated cruises out of FL - DeSantis signs in to law “no vaccine passports”


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21 hours ago, LaCal said:

No way Desantis will lose millions of dollars for Florida by saying Cruise lines can’t mandate guests being vaccinated 

 

Cruise lines can easily sail out of NY, NJ, NOLA, Galveston, Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco and say screw Florida 

 

 

 

DeSantis will have to figure out a way to save face.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

When you buy a cruise from NCL in the US you are dealing with a Florida based subsidiary, which absolutely qualifies as a Florida business.

 

This is going to be some fireworks.

Under the commerce clause of the Constitution the federal government has sole authority to regulate foreign and interstate commerce. The states have zero authority in these areas, even in the absence of specific federal laws and regulations . I haven't seen public comment by a single lawyer considered an expert in this area of law suggesting that Florida has a reasonably good chance to win the argument. That's why there won't be much in the way of fireworks other than political posturing and false narratives.

Edited by njhorseman
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12 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

On the Princess ship, it spread even among people in different cabins.

Are you saying that it spread from cabin to cabin via the HVAC system?  I'd be interested in the source of that information.

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11 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Under the commerce clause of the Constitution the federal government has sole authority to regulate foreign and interstate commerce. The states have zero authority in these areas, even in the absence of specific federal laws and regulations . I haven't seen public comment by a single lawyer considered an expert in this area of law suggesting that Florida has a reasonably good chance to win the argument. That's why there won't be much in the way of fireworks other than political posturing and false narratives.

Well said. 

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I understand the temptation to look at his EO as political posturing, but I don't think it's solely that. The question of whether to allow vaccine passports or the like is politically fraught and it's still hotly debated in Europe. Furthermore, the Biden Administration has resisted the idea of requiring proof of vaccination, too. So if it IS political posturing, then it's bipartisan.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexledsom/2021/04/15/eu-travel-vaccine-passports-cant-be-requirement-for-travel-says-eu/?sh=4f195a663a9f

This article https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/28/politics/biden-administration-vaccination-passport/index.html mentions that the Federal government IS considering a type of vaccine passport, but here's an important note from that same article, emphasis mine:

"White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Monday there will be no federal mandate requiring every American to obtain a vaccination credential and there will be no centralized universal federal vaccinations database."

IOW I think both DeSantis and Biden are saying they're not against people having proof, they're against people being forced to obtain it. Two different, albeit related, things.

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If DeSantis wants the millions of dollars in business, there isn’t much you can really say...

if he wants to play hardball Cruise lines can run their business right out of the state, Other states will be more than happy to have ships dock there!😉🤷‍♂️

https://www.wtsp.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/vaccine/cruise-covid-vaccine-proof-florida-vaccine-passport-ban/67-4db7f101-2a46-48ba-a1fb-5f4f20f05f48

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46 minutes ago, B Midged said:

Obviously, unless they were sneaking out at night hugging and kissing people they didn’t even know 

Well, considering that the HVAC system does not recirculate air between cabins, that is an impossibility.  The people were let out of their cabins for restricted periods every day into public spaces, though.

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5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Are you saying that it spread from cabin to cabin via the HVAC system?  I'd be interested in the source of that information.

They never determined it because forensics were not performed. What they know is that during the extended lockdown with people in their cabins, people continued to develop symptoms over an extended period of lockdown and they could not understand why.  HVAC?  The process of distributing food? Or did it simply take over a week for some to develop symptoms after being exposed before lockdown?  

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Covid number are declining too rapidly in the United States to justify vaccine passports in July. Will be interesting to see how this all pans out. 

 

Getting my second dose tomorrow, woot woot!

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27 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

They never determined it because forensics were not performed. What they know is that during the extended lockdown with people in their cabins, people continued to develop symptoms over an extended period of lockdown and they could not understand why.  HVAC?  The process of distributing food? Or did it simply take over a week for some to develop symptoms after being exposed before lockdown?  

Well, as I've said many times on many threads about AC in cruise ship cabins, there is no co-mingling of air between cabins, so that method is unlikely, if not impossible.  During their lockdown, they were allowed outside their cabins for designated times, in public areas.  I think it was conclusively determined that it was the crew distributing food that were not trained in aerosol viral mitigation methods.  Even a study done by RCG showed that viral load cannot be maintained over the distances involved in a ship's HVAC system.

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36 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Good points.  The difference being, President Biden has been a huge proponent of getting as many vaccines administered to as many people as possible, in the shortest amount of time.  He knows doing that is the quickest path to herd immunity.  DeSantis has done everything in his power to hide and misreport his state's COVID statistics, did little to stop its spread, and has been throwing roadblocks up for  cruise lines to forge an avenue  for safe sailing.

 

Therein lies the decision by NCL to require 100% vaccine for anyone on board any of their ships, and sailing out of Jamaica instead of FL.

Just because you repeat something over and over and over and over again does not make it true.

 

Where in the world do you get that NCL's decision to sail out of Jamaica have anything to do with the State Of Florida?

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48 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

Just because you repeat something over and over and over and over again does not make it true.

DITTO!

48 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

 

Where in the world do you get that NCL's decision to sail out of Jamaica have anything to do with the State Of Florida?

NCL’s vaccine mandate will apply to ALL their cruises, including cruises from the US through October 31. Already announced.  Don’t see them dropping it now if they can get quick approval from the CDC to sail no matter what the Governor of Florida says. 

 

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2 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

DITTO!

NCL’s vaccine mandate will apply to ALL their cruises, including cruises from the US through October 31. Already announced.  Don’t see them dropping it now if they can get quick approval from the CDC to sail no matter what the Governor of Florida says. 

 

OK.  This has nothing to do with moving ships out of US ports.  That was done because they were getting nowhere with the CDC.

Funny, cruise lines are getting their crews vaccinated in Miami and Port Canaveral.  Looks like they think they will sail out of Florida soon.

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2 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

OK.  This has nothing to do with moving ships out of US ports.  That was done because they were getting nowhere with the CDC.

Funny, cruise lines are getting their crews vaccinated in Miami and Port Canaveral.  Looks like they think they will sail out of Florida soon.

No, I'd say they see it as a cheap way to ensure their crews are vaccinated.  If Carteret, NJ started to offer vaccinations to crew, the ships would be there as well.

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2 hours ago, KennyFla said:

OK.  This has nothing to do with moving ships out of US ports.  That was done because they were getting nowhere with the CDC.

Funny, cruise lines are getting their crews vaccinated in Miami and Port Canaveral.  Looks like they think they will sail out of Florida soon.

 

Yep.  

 

I'm sure there will be a chime that it is the cheap way out for the cruise lines from those opposed to cruising ever again.

 

Nice post.

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I  disagree with Drew69. In January of thus year, when I went to get my gold star license. my fingerprints were taken. They were not the fancy kind  required for Trusted Traveler or Concealed Carry.. Personally,  no one I know in this country  has a vaccine passport.  If Dew69 is speaking about the vaccine card we received, it is not a passport. Its main purpose was to show me what products would be injected. The nurse showed me the matching information on the dose package both times.

 

Chinese  friends told me that their government knows everything it wants to know about them. They carry a government issued card.,I don't want my government to collect so much information about me. Electronic records are extremely easy to move around. .If you use social media,  surely you have noticed that when you order products on line, ads about them pop up on your thread sometimes  in minutes.

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1 hour ago, warburg said:

I don't want my government to collect so much information about me.

I believe you'd be mistaken if you think it hasn't been recorded with the government what vaccine you received.  At least in New York the minimum level of government that knows I have completed the vaccine is the state, but it may also have been recorded with the CDC.

 

1 hour ago, warburg said:

If you use social media,  surely you have noticed that when you order products on line, ads about them pop up on your thread sometimes  in minutes.

That's all based on the cookies on your computer.  If you use incognito mode to make that purchase I bet those ads don't show up...

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16 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, considering that the HVAC system does not recirculate air between cabins, that is an impossibility.  The people were let out of their cabins for restricted periods every day into public spaces, though.

Airflow does not work like that regardless of what you think. If it did you wouldn’t have complaints about people smoking in cabins just down the hall. 

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2 hours ago, B Midged said:

Airflow does not work like that regardless of what you think. If it did you wouldn’t have complaints about people smoking in cabins just down the hall. 

How much time have you spent working on ship's HVAC systems?  For that matter, if covid can present a viable threat after going through an HVAC system, why are buildings ashore not all closed down until they redesign their HVAC systems?

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On 5/3/2021 at 6:09 PM, PTC DAWG said:

Anyone worried about that should stay home. 

Agree,  some seem to think they will be immune from other illnesses. There has always been a risk with foreign travel & cruises & always will be.

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18 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, as I've said many times on many threads about AC in cruise ship cabins, there is no co-mingling of air between cabins, so that method is unlikely, if not impossible.  During their lockdown, they were allowed outside their cabins for designated times, in public areas.  I think it was conclusively determined that it was the crew distributing food that were not trained in aerosol viral mitigation methods.  Even a study done by RCG showed that viral load cannot be maintained over the distances involved in a ship's HVAC system.

Again clearly there is commingling of air between cabins. It’s basic physics   If there wasn’t, one could smoke in their cabin without anyone in the other cabins even being aware. 

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26 minutes ago, B Midged said:

Again clearly there is commingling of air between cabins. It’s basic physics   If there wasn’t, one could smoke in their cabin without anyone in the other cabins even being aware. 

Let's see, some physics.  Cabins are kept at a slight positive pressure.  How?  By supplying more air than is taken away in the bathroom.  Why?  To keep smoke from entering the cabin in a fire, through the gap under the door to the "hallway".  Passageways are kept at a lower pressure than cabins, for the exact same reason.  Therefore, "basic physics" says that air will flow from your cabin out into the passageway (higher pressure to lower pressure).  This is the same for all cabins, so where does the air from someone else's cabin get into yours?

 

But this topic is far from the original one, so I'll let it drop here.

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Folks, the Federal government has absolute control over international travel and can require proof of vaccinations to re-enter the country.  heck, during a pandemic cleaning spree, I tossed my yellow smallpox vaccine card from my first trip abroad in 1971.

The cruise line sure isn't going to let you board if you aren't going to be allowed back in. What proof is required is up to CBP and Homeland security. 

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