New CDC guidelines for simulated cruises

[sandebeach]

2 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

From what I understand about DCL, the move up to Port Everglades from Port Miami is 2024 at the earliest, and Desantis comes up for election 2022.

Yes he is up for reelection in 2022. I do not think he would do anything contrary to what Disney wans, because Disney is a Huge revenue producer for Florida. 

[not-enough-cruising]

6 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

Provide the link of Abbott stating cruise lines would be allowed to mandate vaccination passports/certs. out of Galveston. The ship can’t dock without the full assistance of the Port. The two are inextricably linked. As such, I would argue the Port is an extension of the cruise line and since the Port is publicly funded, it cannot facilitate any vaccine requirement. 

You can argue, but you would be wrong. 

[livingonthebeach]

3 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Yes he is up for reelection in 2022. I do not think he would do anything contrary to what Disney wans, because Disney is a Huge revenue producer for Florida. 

 

I agree. That's why I find it strange that our governor is publicly saying he will not allow cruise lines to ask for proof of vaccination documentation.  NCL publicly threatening to leave FL does not inspire confidence either. 

[sandebeach]

11 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I agree. That's why I find it strange that our governor is publicly saying he will not allow cruise lines to ask for proof of vaccination documentation.  NCL publicly threatening to leave FL does not inspire confidence either. 

I find it strange also. 

[florida eagle]

Cruise forums I know. This is more then just cruising. Whatever the Governor decides even if reversed is his interpretation for the state. And he has been a good governor. A counter balance to the national politics. The state is a sanctuary for liberty far more then many others. Because people are coming here from there.

[broberts]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

I don't have the CDC guidance in front of me now but I have read it a few times as it has been posted on these cruise forums by several posters. From my recollection of what the CDC guidance states is that a prolonged meal is in violation of the CDC masking guidelines. Are they going to time our meals then? Just how long do we have to consume a standard three course meal? Seems FDR reads those guidelines as "masking in between bites and sips" but what do I know?

 

Exaggeration doesn't advance the discussion. By no definition I know of would a bite be considered a meal.

 

Your characterization of the guidance matches my recollection. No detailed definitions. I suspect to allow some flexibility in implementation. Personally I would not consider a 3 course meal prolonged unless there was twenty minutes or more between courses. 

 

I do expect changes in the masking guidelines for vaccinated people.

[garywatson]

2 hours ago, sandebeach said:

Yes he is up for reelection in 2022. I do not think he would do anything contrary to what Disney wans, because Disney is a Huge revenue producer for Florida. 

 

Somebody else can do the math but I suspect Disney makes more money pushing Floridians into vacations at Disneyworld properties than it makes from them going on cruise ships.  The US domestic entertainment business probably doesn't mind cruising being shut down - more sales of premium cable services, more domestic hotels and theme park occupancy by relatively wealthy patrons, etc.

[SidneyHuff1950]

30 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Exaggeration doesn't advance the discussion. By no definition I know of would a bite be considered a meal.

 

Your characterization of the guidance matches my recollection. No detailed definitions. I suspect to allow some flexibility in implementation. Personally I would not consider a 3 course meal prolonged unless there was twenty minutes or more between courses. 

 

I do expect changes in the masking guidelines for vaccinated people.

I have been doing a lot of reading on this topic as I am curious, and here are my thoughts.

 

You are right no one knows what these guidelines mean.

 

The CEO of NCL says you will need to wear your mask between bites of food, but he is a bit of a muppet head.

 

What I found was comparing the cruise ship guidelines with the guidelines for the airlines, who also answer to the CDC.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/face-masks-public-transportation.html

 

People are not required to wear a mask under the following circumstances:

• while eating, drinking, or taking medication for brief periods of time;

 

When enforcing this, they tell people to wear a mask between bites or they kick people off the plane.

 

 

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/04/24/baltimore-county-kicked-off-southwest-airlines-flight-eating-twizzlers-no-mask/

 

After he emailed Southwest, he found out a new federal mask mandate went into effect requiring airline passengers to wear face masks at all times, including “in between bites.”

 

 

Now what does the CSO say about this?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html

 

Mask Use

At this time, all persons, including port personnel, crew, and passengers (including those that are fully vaccinated) are advised that CDC’s Mask Order remains in effect and requires the wearing of masks on conveyances entering, traveling within or leaving the United States, and in U.S. transportation hubs (see Maritime-specific Frequently Asked Questions).

• While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order.

 

 

Its the same language as what airlines say. They may give more leniency to the cruise ships, but we still dont know.

 

Sidney

[coldflame]

32 minutes ago, garywatson said:

 

Somebody else can do the math but I suspect Disney makes more money pushing Floridians into vacations at Disneyworld properties than it makes from them going on cruise ships.  The US domestic entertainment business probably doesn't mind cruising being shut down - more sales of premium cable services, more domestic hotels and theme park occupancy by relatively wealthy patrons, etc.

 

DCL revenues are pretty small to Disney. There's a reason why of all the cruise lines they are the ones in the least hurry. Disney+, content and merch licensing are the big bread winners for Disney.

[ONECRUISER]

8 minutes ago, SidneyHuff1950 said:

I have been doing a lot of reading on this topic as I am curious, and here are my thoughts.

 

You are right no one knows what these guidelines mean.

 

The CEO of NCL says you will need to wear your mask between bites of food, but he is a bit of a muppet head.

 

What I found was comparing the cruise ship guidelines with the guidelines for the airlines, who also answer to the CDC.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/face-masks-public-transportation.html

 

People are not required to wear a mask under the following circumstances:

• while eating, drinking, or taking medication for brief periods of time;

 

When enforcing this, they tell people to wear a mask between bites or they kick people off the plane.

 

 

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/04/24/baltimore-county-kicked-off-southwest-airlines-flight-eating-twizzlers-no-mask/

 

After he emailed Southwest, he found out a new federal mask mandate went into effect requiring airline passengers to wear face masks at all times, including “in between bites.”

 

 

Now what does the CSO say about this?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html

 

Mask Use

At this time, all persons, including port personnel, crew, and passengers (including those that are fully vaccinated) are advised that CDC’s Mask Order remains in effect and requires the wearing of masks on conveyances entering, traveling within or leaving the United States, and in U.S. transportation hubs (see Maritime-specific Frequently Asked Questions).

• While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order.

 

 

Its the same language as what airlines say. They may give more leniency to the cruise ships, but we still dont know.

 

Sidney

Well said. Happened fast with Airlines, now required take bite, put Mask back on to chew

[ArthurUSCG]

3 minutes ago, ONECRUISER said:

Well said. Happened fast with Airlines, now required take bite, put Mask back on to chew

And let's be honest as to the reason why, people were making a snack last 2 hours. That's why Disney clamped down and required people to be seated in designated areas to remove the mask to eat, because people were wandering around the park with a snack for the entire day. A few bad apples ruined it for the rest of us.

[Ocean Boy]

On 5/7/2021 at 7:08 PM, kearney said:

Candidly I just hope that the CDC staff is just over worked and hasn't had the opportunity to actually think about their guidelines... perhaps...like the teachers unions... the cruiselines could find someone from their health panel to assist in updating the guidelines...   yeah that'll work

An overworked goverment agency?🤔

[Ocean Boy]

5 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

theCDC is prioritizing returning Americans to employment.

Who works those ports that we sail from? Who provides the supplies that get loaded onto the ships docked in the ports that we sail from? Who transports us to the ships located in the ports that we sail from?

[Ocean Boy]

5 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

This is exactly it, the CDC is understaffed in a normal fiscal year, they no longer have the man power to handle the surge needed for and outbreak.

Imagine the PITA they could be if they did have the manpower. Goverment employees trying to show they are doing something to earn their paychecks.

[broberts]

23 minutes ago, SidneyHuff1950 said:

I have been doing a lot of reading on this topic as I am curious, and here are my thoughts.

 

You are right no one knows what these guidelines mean.

 

The CEO of NCL says you will need to wear your mask between bites of food, but he is a bit of a muppet head.

 

What I found was comparing the cruise ship guidelines with the guidelines for the airlines, who also answer to the CDC.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/face-masks-public-transportation.html

 

People are not required to wear a mask under the following circumstances:

• while eating, drinking, or taking medication for brief periods of time;

 

When enforcing this, they tell people to wear a mask between bites or they kick people off the plane.

 

 

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/04/24/baltimore-county-kicked-off-southwest-airlines-flight-eating-twizzlers-no-mask/

 

After he emailed Southwest, he found out a new federal mask mandate went into effect requiring airline passengers to wear face masks at all times, including “in between bites.”

 

 

Now what does the CSO say about this?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-operations-manual-cso.html

 

Mask Use

At this time, all persons, including port personnel, crew, and passengers (including those that are fully vaccinated) are advised that CDC’s Mask Order remains in effect and requires the wearing of masks on conveyances entering, traveling within or leaving the United States, and in U.S. transportation hubs (see Maritime-specific Frequently Asked Questions).

• While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order.

 

 

Its the same language as what airlines say. They may give more leniency to the cruise ships, but we still dont know.

 

Sidney

 

I suspect the CDC appreciates the environmental differences between airline and cruise ships. I have yet to dine on a cruise ship where I was less than 25" from other diners. On the other hand I can't recall the last time I ate on a plane while not rubbing shoulders. So it makes sense to minimize times masks are not worn inflight, especially given the numerous reports of policy abuse.

[davekathy]

4 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Imagine the PITA they could be if they did have the manpower. Goverment employees trying to show they are doing something to earn their paychecks.

Glad I'm retired. 🤣

[Ocean Boy]

4 minutes ago, broberts said:

 I have yet to dine on a cruise ship where I was less than 25" from other diners.

These tables look like they are spaced 25 ft apart? This is th MDR of Oasis. I see chairs almost back to back.

 

[broberts]

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

These tables look like they are spaced 25 ft apart? This is th MDR of Oasis. I see chairs almost back to back.

 

 

25 inches, not 25 feet. I haven't been on Oasis, but my recollection of Allure many years ago is that there was enough space between chairs to allow people to pass between.

 

Presumably adjustments will have to be made. Are they planning to sail with a reduced capacity?

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, broberts said:

 

25 inches, not 25 feet. I haven't been on Oasis, but my recollection of Allure many years ago is that there was enough space between chairs to allow people to pass between.

 

Presumably adjustments will have to be made. Are they planning to sail with a reduced capacity?

I misread the inches. My appologies.

[SidneyHuff1950]

20 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

I suspect the CDC appreciates the environmental differences between airline and cruise ships. I have yet to dine on a cruise ship where I was less than 25" from other diners. On the other hand I can't recall the last time I ate on a plane while not rubbing shoulders. So it makes sense to minimize times masks are not worn inflight, especially given the numerous reports of policy abuse.

I would agree with you that I would suspect the CDC appreciates the environmental differences between cruise ships and other locations, I am just not sure they do since they require socially distanced outdoor sunbathers to wear masks. Also, if they did appreciate the differences between airlines and cruise ships, dont you think they would use different language for the orders overseeing cruises and airplanes?

 

• Ensure bathers wear masks while congregating outside of recreational water facilities (RWFs) and while seated on the pool deck area. Masks do not need to be worn in the water, e.g., in RWFs or while swimming in the ocean. A wet cloth mask can make it difficult to breathe and likely will not work correctly. This means it is particularly important for bathers to maintain social distancing of at least 6 feet (2 meters) when in the water with others who are not traveling companions or part of the same family.

 

But I think we can agree we are both just speculating and will have to wait until the cruise ships respond with their action plans to see how they address these requirements.

 

Sidney

Edited May 11, 2021 by SidneyHuff1950

[not-enough-cruising]

49 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

I suspect the CDC appreciates the environmental differences between airline and cruise ships. I have yet to dine on a cruise ship where I was less than 25" from other diners. On the other hand I can't recall the last time I ate on a plane while not rubbing shoulders. So it makes sense to minimize times masks are not worn inflight, especially given the numerous reports of policy abuse.

Eating on a cruise ship is no different than eating in my hometown, and we have been dining in restaurants without masks for about 6 months, no problems, no idea of vaccine status. 

[SUSIEK]

On 5/5/2021 at 3:55 PM, mook1525 said:

I thought they can bypass test cruise if 98% of crews and 95% of passengers have been vaccinated?

 

 

Our Governor Desantis, here in FL, has signed an order that private companies cannot require their customers to be vaccinated to patron their own private businesses. This includes cruiselines sailing from FL.    So..... we wait to see what happens.  Lawyers involved....could take a long time to settle this.  Meanwhile.....$$$ being lost in the state. 

[Keksie]

13 minutes ago, SUSIEK said:

Our Governor Desantis, here in FL, has signed an order that private companies cannot require their customers to be vaccinated to patron their own private businesses. This includes cruiselines sailing from FL.    So..... we wait to see what happens.  Lawyers involved....could take a long time to settle this.  Meanwhile.....$$$ being lost in the state. 

$$$ are not being lost in the state at this time.  There are no ships sailing from any other state.  Not from Alabama, not from Louisiana, not from Texas, not from New Jersey, and not from any cities on the West Coast.  Even if the order didn't exist the CDC is not letting any ships sail from the US fully vaccinated or not at this time.  Florida is not the only state that has in some fashion prohibited vaccine passports.  

[HaveWeMetYet]

By the time cruising actually resumes in August or later the CDC will have dropped most if not all Covid restrictions such as social distancing and masks. Most of the CSO requirements will go away and even vaccination requirements will be up to cruise lines. I expect they will get dropped for any cruise that does not go to a port that requires it.

The covid restrictions will get lifted once the daily deaths drop to 200 or so and everyone has had the chance to get fully vaccinated. This should be in July.

Right now they are keeping the restrictions in place to encourage people to get vaccinated and lifting the mask/social distance nonsense right now might discourage them to get the vaccine.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

21 minutes ago, Keksie said:

Florida is not the only state that has in some fashion prohibited vaccine passports.  

 

True, but the details are important.  For example, I read the Texas EO.  It didn't ban private businesses from requiring proof of vaccine unless they get public funds.  So, unless something has changed, cruise ships may be able to sail from there.

 

Lots of us would prefer a vaccinated cruise, and we're making future bookings right now.  Florida may lose those $$$.

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes