New CDC guidelines released 5/5/21

[Oceangoer2]

Just now, LGW59 said:

But I am only 5' 10"!!!

Then you are 2 bricks short of a load...haha

[LGW59]

Just now, Oceangoer2 said:

Then you are 2 bricks short of a load...haha

LMAO!!!!!  My mom used to say when I asked for extra money to go to the movie, sorry you are out of luck you are 2 dimes short of having popcorn

[baldilocks]

17 hours ago, JeanieC,Aston said:

Being a Brit and having absolutely no idea about CDC reasoning.

Can someone explain why an organisation like CDC would want to kill the US cruise industry,,,,what’s the motive.

Politics and power over an industry that they consider unsafe. 

[uktog]

16 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I whole heartedly disagree with this.  The moderators on this board are volunteers, and really have no axe to grind.  They also have the right to voice their opinion, and I have defended their right, and will continue to defend with my life, their right to voice that opinion, whether I agree with it or not. 

Yes this is a misconception many have. Some moderators used to have the inside track with the cruise line whose board they moderated but that’s no longer the case. 
Maybe moderators should have a footer that makes it clear their view is their own not an official position as happens on certain airline related sites. 
And we all need to be careful with tongue in cheek posts especially where we are talking with an international readership. 
 

And finally I’m sure most want to be cruising as soon as they feel comfortable with whatever the rules are. And our comfort levels vary! 

[JeanieC,Aston]

5 hours ago, baldilocks said:

Politics and power over an industry that they consider unsafe. 

Hi

Being a government organisation surely they already have the Politics and power to shut it down now if it’s unsafe.

 

Your answer doesn’t really answer the question,,,why would the CDC want to shut down an industry that provides jobs on board,jobs in ports and enjoyment for many.

 

Maybe they are just adhering to the old adage “Better being safe than sorry”

 

I think the truth is posters saying the CDC wants to shut down the cruise industry was a knee jerk reaction to decisions they don’t agree with.

 

[ipeeinthepool]

On 5/7/2021 at 10:21 PM, nocl said:

The guidance is not written for fully vaccinated. If they were there would be a requirement for such.

 

Consequently they are written for no vaccination requirement. Any relaxing of restrictions for a fully vaccinated will depend upon the plan in total that they receive from the cruise line where the cruise line indicates that vaccination will be required.

 

Welcome to the party.  It’s been obvious for quite some time the CDC has not been writing rules that apply to the fully vaccinated.  The only question is if they will continue to apply rules developed for unvaccinated people to the vaccinated population.

[chengkp75]

29 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Welcome to the party.  It’s been obvious for quite some time the CDC has not been writing rules that apply to the fully vaccinated.  The only question is if they will continue to apply rules developed for unvaccinated people to the vaccinated population.

And, also remember, that the President has said there will be no federal requirement for a vaccination document.  So, while the cruise lines have said what they intend to do (require vaccination), they still have not submitted a plan of how they intend to do this, so the CDC sets the requirements assuming that the stated goal of 100% vaccination (or even 95%) will not actually be met, or verified.

[ipeeinthepool]

10 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, also remember, that the President has said there will be no federal requirement for a vaccination document.  

 

This was a politically motivated decision that hinders the reopening of the country.  Celebrity has established procedures for verifying vaccination status on cruises starting this summer,  I suspect they will be using the same procedures.

 

Maybe the CDC could actually be a little proactive and tell us what they will accept as proof of vaccination.  Since they have already established distinct paths for ships that are vaccinated and non-vaccinated ships returning to service, they likely have some idea of what is acceptable proof of vaccination.

Edited May 10, 2021 by ipeeinthepool

[chengkp75]

18 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

This was a politically motivated decision that hinders the reopening of the country.  Celebrity has established procedures for verifying vaccination status on cruises starting this summer,  I suspect they will be using the same procedures.

 

Maybe the CDC could actually be a little proactive and tell us what they will accept as proof of vaccination.  Since they have already established distinct paths for ships that are vaccinated and non-vaccinated ships returning to service, they likely have some idea of what is acceptable proof of vaccination.

Again, you are looking at the situation as one where the regulatory agency dictates how an industry meets their requirements.  The CDC does not have expertise in operating a cruise line, or any business, so they expect the industry to come forth with the how to meet the agency's what.  And, the only difference between the two paths, vaccinated or unvaccinated, are that if the cruise line can show that they are having a vaccinated cruise, then they can skip the "simulated" cruise and go directly to revenue cruises, but all other restrictions and requirements apply to both paths.  The only reason there are these "technical instructions", which many feel are required, is because the cruise lines did not come forth with their how plan before.

[ipeeinthepool]

17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Again, you are looking at the situation as one where the regulatory agency dictates how an industry meets their requirements.  The CDC does not have expertise in operating a cruise line, or any business, so they expect the industry to come forth with the how to meet the agency's what.  And, the only difference between the two paths, vaccinated or unvaccinated, are that if the cruise line can show that they are having a vaccinated cruise, then they can skip the "simulated" cruise and go directly to revenue cruises, but all other restrictions and requirements apply to both paths.  The only reason there are these "technical instructions", which many feel are required, is because the cruise lines did not come forth with their how plan before.

 

You're 100% correct, the CDC dose not have the expertise in operating any business but either intentionally or unintentionally they are in the position of providing guidelines for every industry.  The CDC has regulations for resuming office work, summer camps, cruise lines and everything else.  Some instances the businesses have to meet regulatory requirements and in other cases the businesses have adopted a CYA approach to CDC guidelines.  In all cases the CDC is a bottleneck until they recognize the much lower risk for vaccinated people.

 

As you note, the CDC has established two paths for ships returning to service, vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers and crew.  Maybe the CDC could be proactive and tell the world how you can differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated people.  They must have an idea because they wrote the two sets of rules.

[4774Papa]

We are booked on a week long tour of Iceland from 31 July- 7 August.   Iceland is open to tourist with vaccines.   According to the guides of the tour group, the CDC vaccine card is proof.

[chengkp75]

22 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

The CDC has regulations for resuming office work, summer camps, cruise lines and everything else.  Some instances the businesses have to meet regulatory requirements and in other cases the businesses have adopted a CYA approach to CDC guidelines.

Yet, even with the CDC giving "recommendations" to many industries, do you think that those industries have waited for specific directions on how to meet those recommendations, before generating their own action plan, based on their own unique business situation, facilities, staff, etc?  Did hospitals wait for "technical instructions" before issuing covid action plans?  No.  That is why the CDC, like all regulating agencies, issue requirements based on their expertise (epidemiology in this case), and expect the industry to issue action plans based on the industry's expertise (running that industry).  The bottle neck in the cruise disaster has been the cruise lines themselves, waiting and hoping that the pandemic will blow over, and the CDC requirements would go away and things would get back to the way they were.

[CroozFanatic]

Makes no sense. Every single cruise line is failing the CDC requirements? Ridiculous. The CDC is being overbearing. Easy to understand.

[C-Dragons]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Again, you are looking at the situation as one where the regulatory agency dictates how an industry meets their requirements.  The CDC does not have expertise in operating a cruise line, or any business, so they expect the industry to come forth with the how to meet the agency's what.  And, the only difference between the two paths, vaccinated or unvaccinated, are that if the cruise line can show that they are having a vaccinated cruise, then they can skip the "simulated" cruise and go directly to revenue cruises, but all other restrictions and requirements apply to both paths.  The only reason there are these "technical instructions", which many feel are required, is because the cruise lines did not come forth with their how plan before.

X just recently published information for travel agents that said proof of vaccination for all guests can be shown up until the day of departure. This info came from my TA. Would this meet the requirement to show that their cruises are vaccinated?

I wondered if X is going to ask for this information on the X App for advance checkin which my TA said would be available 30 days before departure. (And for anyone expecting luggage tags, X will not be mailing them out in advance, guests will need to print their own).

[ipeeinthepool]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Yet, even with the CDC giving "recommendations" to many industries, do you think that those industries have waited for specific directions on how to meet those recommendations, before generating their own action plan, based on their own unique business situation, facilities, staff, etc?  

 

Yes, that's correct.  It's called CYA.  None of the procedures or vaccines are perfect.  There will be more cases of COVID and no one wants to be sued because their procedures were different from the CDC recommendations.  

[charliesdad63]

On 5/9/2021 at 6:53 AM, Gracie115 said:

But the "evil" cruise industry continues to pay because they didn't have the foresight to know how to handle a previously unknown virus.  Shame on them for not being prescient and having the solution before the rest of the world did.  🙄

The cruising industry has a bias of making money for its stockholders. They need to get bodies back on board to consume product offerings and they want to do it as quickly as possible. The CDC is holding them accountable to ensure passenger safety is the number one priority over revenue. 

 

The overall vibe from this whole discussion is that the CDC is the 'evil' one that is setting up parameters to exceed that threshold of risk that it will take to ensure both stockholder and passenger needs are met.

[nocl]

44 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Yes, that's correct.  It's called CYA.  None of the procedures or vaccines are perfect.  There will be more cases of COVID and no one wants to be sued because their procedures were different from the CDC recommendations.  

which is comical considering that before they sail from the US the CDC would have to approve their plan. So as long as the CSO is in place they cannot sail with procedures from the CDC.

 

It certainly hasn't stopped the cruise lines from sailing outside of the US or requesting the CSO to be dropped.

[KOWkittie]

On 5/6/2021 at 8:20 AM, 39august said:

I guess I missed the "mask mandate". I assume this means masks all the time except when eating or drinking? And this is from the CDC? We will not be sailing under such a restriction. 

And yet the CDC and most of the intelligent medical community now admit that once you've had the vax, that it's safe to ditch the masks especially outdoors😨, cant wait to see some crazy mask tans!

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

X just recently published information for travel agents that said proof of vaccination for all guests can be shown up until the day of departure. This info came from my TA. Would this meet the requirement to show that their cruises are vaccinated?

I wondered if X is going to ask for this information on the X App for advance checkin which my TA said would be available 30 days before departure. (And for anyone expecting luggage tags, X will not be mailing them out in advance, guests will need to print their own).

I couldn't say.  How this proof is presented, and how it is checked for accuracy are the sticking points.  And, this is what the CDC is saying, "you (the cruise lines) proposed having all crew and guests vaccinated, in order to remove some restrictions, now tell us how you are going to do this, and we will see".

[chengkp75]

53 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Yes, that's correct.  It's called CYA.  None of the procedures or vaccines are perfect.  There will be more cases of COVID and no one wants to be sued because their procedures were different from the CDC recommendations.  

That's not what I said at all.  Every single hospital, when the CDC recommendations came out, did not wait for "technical instructions" to build their action plan, they set up their own plan, unique to that facility, to meet the recommendations.  You will find that three hospitals in one city will have three different action plans, because their situations are different.

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

X just recently published information for travel agents that said proof of vaccination for all guests can be shown up until the day of departure. This info came from my TA. Would this meet the requirement to show that their cruises are vaccinated?

I wondered if X is going to ask for this information on the X App for advance checkin which my TA said would be available 30 days before departure. (And for anyone expecting luggage tags, X will not be mailing them out in advance, guests will need to print their own).

Would it be possible for you to ask your TA to send you a link with this "published" information which you might subsequently be able to share with us?

[ipeeinthepool]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

That's not what I said at all.  Every single hospital, when the CDC recommendations came out, did not wait for "technical instructions" to build their action plan, they set up their own plan, unique to that facility, to meet the recommendations.  You will find that three hospitals in one city will have three different action plans, because their situations are different.

 

Hospitals are different.  They had to act and could not wait for the CDC.   you talked about "the CDC giving "recommendations" to many industries"   Many industries are more than just hospitals and all of these other industries are being held hostage by the CDC the resulting criticism and lawsuits.

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, Dwight1 said:

These CDC regulations will be a shambles by September1. My state ( Virginia) is eliminating all covid regulations except indoor mask on June 15, our daily infections were today just 336, the lowest since the Pandemic  and Fauci just said the CDC will soon issue relaxed restrictions on indoor masks. This is all in opposition to the stuff they just issued. I expect significant changes rather soon.

Fauci did not say the CDC will soon issue relaxed mask guidance.  Fauci is an adviser to the President, not a member of the CDC.  He did say this morning that he believes that indoor mask guidance should be relaxed for situations where all persons are vaccinated, but he did not expand on the exact types of situations where that might apply.  I think there could be relaxation of "some" of the mask guidance for cruise ships depending upon a vaccination commitment from the individual cruise lines and their proposed plan for operations.  

[ipeeinthepool]

17 minutes ago, nocl said:

It certainly hasn't stopped the cruise lines from sailing outside of the US ...

 

No on would be sailing outside of the US if they had to follow the CDC rules.

Edited May 10, 2021 by ipeeinthepool

[Jeremiah1212]

1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

X just recently published information for travel agents that said proof of vaccination for all guests can be shown up until the day of departure. This info came from my TA. Would this meet the requirement to show that their cruises are vaccinated?

I wondered if X is going to ask for this information on the X App for advance checkin which my TA said would be available 30 days before departure. (And for anyone expecting luggage tags, X will not be mailing them out in advance, guests will need to print their own).

 

Q. #2: Do I need a COVID-19 vaccine to cruise? What documents count as proof of vaccination? How far in advance do I need to get my vaccine?

 

A: At this time, we are requiring guests 18 years and older to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19. Each guest must submit proof of full vaccination no later than boarding day, in the form of the original vaccination record document issued by either (1) the country’s health authority that administered the vaccination (e.g., U.S. CDC’s Vaccination Record Card) or (2) the guest’s medical provider that administered the vaccination. Electronic vaccination records will only be accepted for residents of those countries where electronic documentation is the standard issued form (e.g., a unique QR code). The vaccination record submitted to Celebrity Cruises must show that the guest is fully vaccinated. This means that the guest has completed the full cycle of required doses for the vaccine administered (e.g., received the second dose in a two-dose series), and that the guest has received the final dose at least 14 days before sailing.

 

This has been out there a while. It won't hold much weight with the CDC since the countries this applies to have no vaccine requirement to sail. Celebrity is essentially doing this on their own. If they backtrack or let some people slide by with questionable documentation there are no teeth to this at all.