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Who in their right mind would want to cruise under these conditions??????


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2 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Take some extra masks and quit spraying your nose contents all over the place.


It’s spring.  I’d have to take twenty or thirty masks with me to make a half hour trip to the grocery store.  Obviously you and/or your loved ones don’t have allergies, or you’d be a tad more sympathetic.

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1 hour ago, jperry2011 said:

Your literally gonna sneeze into a mask and wear it around? 🤣🤣🤣

Yes, that is the very point... to protect other people but I see that doesn’t really matter to you. Alternatives that are quite popular among responsible people are Kleenex or subsequently washed hands. 

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12 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

So for the sake of discussion, what is your opinion on why the CDC is asking for mask wearing on a fully vaccinated ship?


I think this is easy: it's because we don't actually know how being on a cruise ship will impact spread of COVID, even amongst fully-vaccinated people. 

For large stretches of time, a cruise ship is a closed system. We have very little data about how COVID spreads in a closed system. In most real world environments, people enter/exit at will, interact with other people who are/aren't vaccinated, travel, etc.

Simply put, we don't have any data on what will happen with a fully vaccinated cohort interact in close quarters in a largely closed system over the course of a week. We have data on covid spread amongst vaccinated individuals in real-world situations, but most of the closed system stuff is speculative or anecdotal.

The CDC operates with an abundance of caution, not an abundance of making sure your vacation is awesome. I'd expect that once we have extensive data on how COVID spreads in a closed system like a cruise ship, masking guidelines may be changed, but not before.

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23 minutes ago, bookbabe said:


It’s spring.  I’d have to take twenty or thirty masks with me to make a half hour trip to the grocery store.  Obviously you and/or your loved ones don’t have allergies, or you’d be a tad more sympathetic.

Give it a break.  The poster pushing the inanity around sneezing into a mask and continuing to wear it is trying to paint a picture unrelated to the real difficulty of trying to respect mask-wearing guidance and the very real need to sneeze.  Obviously, if you’re walking or driving to the grocery store (at least in Ottawa) you can pretty much sneeze whenever you want because you’re unlikely to be wearing a mask.  Once you go through the pearly gates at Loblaws... well, time to reconsider the trip or be prepared to manage the allergic reaction(s).

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15 hours ago, jonbgd said:

Im totally get what your saying and not disagreeing. 

I booked a cruise hoping things would be back to normal and everyone would be vaccinated.

I just didnt realize people would be so against it.

 

 

Yeah, I agree. Seems like there has been increasing resistance against getting the vaccine now than there was when the vaccine(s) were first rolled out. Strange. You would think it would be the opposite with people getting the vaccine(s) showing the non-vaccinated that there is nothing to fear and the vaccines are perfectly safe. I've had my 2 Moderna jabs; I'm ready to cruise!

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16 hours ago, harkinmr said:

You do realize that wristbands are already being used by the cruise lines for contact tracing on ships.  All of the lines will be doing it in some form or another going forward.

 

You mean the Princess Medallion that's only there to make life easier for passengers and open doors automatically?/S

 

Yeah...now it's suggested as an invisible fence to keep us in line. 

 

Maybe I'm the only one who has a problem with being buzzed like a dog because my vaccinated self is too close to another vaccinated body.

 

I haven't heard of that kind of tracking on cruises currently operating.

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On 5/7/2021 at 11:10 PM, Sailing12Away said:

If you don't like it then stay home. More room for me.

 

Just got back from my first baseball game in over a year, mask and all. I will gladly sit with a mask on if it means I get to go back to some sense of normalcy and watch my team pull off a win in extra innings. LGM!

Go Phils!!!

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48 minutes ago, AstoriaPreppy said:


I think this is easy: it's because we don't actually know how being on a cruise ship will impact spread of COVID, even amongst fully-vaccinated people. 

For large stretches of time, a cruise ship is a closed system. We have very little data about how COVID spreads in a closed system. In most real world environments, people enter/exit at will, interact with other people who are/aren't vaccinated, travel, etc.

Simply put, we don't have any data on what will happen with a fully vaccinated cohort interact in close quarters in a largely closed system over the course of a week. We have data on covid spread amongst vaccinated individuals in real-world situations, but most of the closed system stuff is speculative or anecdotal.

The CDC operates with an abundance of caution, not an abundance of making sure your vacation is awesome. I'd expect that once we have extensive data on how COVID spreads in a closed system like a cruise ship, masking guidelines may be changed, but not before.

There were enough germs on cruise ships before this pandemic and it was easy to get different viruses and flus, there has always been a risk of any on a cruise ship that is offset by the enjoyment of cruising.

Key word- enjoying- depends on the person. If someone is okay going on a cruise and wearing a  mask while outside, and while on elevator and etc. thats fine- nothing wrong either way.

However, its going to be hard to track. Imagine when the ship has to get thousands of people on board. If someone is taking a Uber to the terminal and gets a virus from a driver it won't show up right away. 

Can't bubble everything- people will have exposure at their hotels, airports, buses, etc. the day before the cruise and symtoms can show up later

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1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

Take some extra masks and quit spraying your nose contents all over the place.

You just said I should avoid going out at all though? I'm confused do I need 100 masks on or do I have to stay home during allergy season?

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1 hour ago, Notnewtoit said:

Yes, that is the very point... to protect other people but I see that doesn’t really matter to you. Alternatives that are quite popular among responsible people are Kleenex or subsequently washed hands. 

The very point of a mask is to sneeze in it then wear it around?!? 😂😂

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1 hour ago, AstoriaPreppy said:


I think this is easy: it's because we don't actually know how being on a cruise ship will impact spread of COVID, even amongst fully-vaccinated people. 

For large stretches of time, a cruise ship is a closed system. We have very little data about how COVID spreads in a closed system. In most real world environments, people enter/exit at will, interact with other people who are/aren't vaccinated, travel, etc.

Simply put, we don't have any data on what will happen with a fully vaccinated cohort interact in close quarters in a largely closed system over the course of a week. We have data on covid spread amongst vaccinated individuals in real-world situations, but most of the closed system stuff is speculative or anecdotal.

The CDC operates with an abundance of caution, not an abundance of making sure your vacation is awesome. I'd expect that once we have extensive data on how COVID spreads in a closed system like a cruise ship, masking guidelines may be changed, but not before.

Yes you are correct we do not have data on how it will spread in a closed system. Yet Buffet Restaurants, Movie Theaters and Bars are opening up all over the country without mask requirements. Is their a difference between a land Buffet vs a on board Buffet and the same goes for restaurants. The new CDC rules are ridiculous and will turn off many people from booking cruises from the USA. JMHO

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1 hour ago, farmersfight said:

 

Yeah, I agree. Seems like there has been increasing resistance against getting the vaccine now than there was when the vaccine(s) were first rolled out. Strange. You would think it would be the opposite with people getting the vaccine(s) showing the non-vaccinated that there is nothing to fear and the vaccines are perfectly safe. I've had my 2 Moderna jabs; I'm ready to cruise!

Informed consent....please people. Seek out and listen to those that have been censored with differing views before you decide...not just main stream media. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, farmersfight said:

You would think it would be the opposite with people getting the vaccine(s) showing the non-vaccinated that there is nothing to fear and the vaccines are perfectly safe. 

 

Most of those who are questioning the vaccine agree that the short term prognosis appears good. It's the long term effects that are yet unknown that has slowed vaccination rates.

 

We simply do not know the long term effects of the vaccine. We also don't know the long term effects of a covid infection. We won't know either for many more years.

 

To add to that, we don't know the long term effectiveness of the vaccine (both Moderno and Pfizer need a booster). We also don't know the long term effectiveness of natural immunity. Current studies lean toward the vaccine offering better protection, but which is going to better after 5 years? When the next strain comes along (and it likely will) are those who relied on natural immunity going to be better prepared to do battle, or are those who received the vaccine going to be better off??  I certainly don't know the answer to that and believe that only time will tell. 

 

I hope I'm around to read history books about how we managed this virus. 

Edited by BermudaBound2014
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15 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

So for the sake of discussion, what is your opinion on why the CDC is asking for mask wearing on a fully vaccinated ship?

 

 I agree, it's ludicrous. IMO, the fact that the CDC is requesting this raises red flags. I suppose I'm more suspicious than most, but this just does not compute. I feel like we are missing data. 

It's very simple why CDC is asking for mask wearing.

The guiding principle has always been 'in an overabundance of caution'.

The decision makers at CDC won't get in trouble for making a cruise less enjoyable.

The decision makers at CDC will get in trouble if they do not require masking and someone becomes infected.  

BTW, I'm in the 'it's ludicrous' camp.  

Even more ludicrous is the politician that forbid the bride and groom from dancing together at the wedding reception.  One wonders if this politician thinks the bride and groom will be in separate bedrooms their wedding night following the reception?

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1 minute ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Most of those who are questioning the vaccine agree that the short term prognosis appears good. It's the long term effects that are yet unknown that has slowed vaccination rates.

 

We simply do not know the long term effects of the vaccine. We also don't know the long term effects of a covid infection. We won't know either for many more years.

 

You are right, we don't know the long term effects of either the vaccine or COVID infection. Therefor we can only make an informed decision based on the short term effect. So far, in the US, possibly 1 in 7 million people vaccinated with the J&J vaccine have died from the vaccine. Zero out of a couple of hundred million people vaccinated with Pfizer or Moderna vaccines have died from the vaccine. Nearly 1 in 500 Americans have died of COVID-19 so far.

 

If you are saying, "but I am young and healthy, so the vaccine is a higher risk than getting COVID", wrong again! One in 7 million people aged 18-49 may have died from the J&J vaccine. So far, in the US, 125 out of a million people aged 18-49 have died of COVID-19. That's not 125 out of a million *who got COVID* died, that's 125 out of a million Americans 18-49 PERIOD. SO FAR!

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2 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

Yeah, I agree. Seems like there has been increasing resistance against getting the vaccine now than there was when the vaccine(s) were first rolled out. Strange. You would think it would be the opposite with people getting the vaccine(s) showing the non-vaccinated that there is nothing to fear and the vaccines are perfectly safe. I've had my 2 Moderna jabs; I'm ready to cruise!

One would think so but those opposed to the vaccines are now pushing that we won't know if the vaccines are really safe for many, many years.  Like maybe 15 years.  There are all sorts of rumors going around that the vaccines are really long term ticking time bombs and that anyone who is vaccinated may die of mysterious ailments ten years from now.

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18 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Most of those who are questioning the vaccine agree that the short term prognosis appears good. It's the long term effects that are yet unknown that has slowed vaccination rates.

 

We simply do not know the long term effects of the vaccine. We also don't know the long term effects of a covid infection. We won't know either for many more years.

 

To add to that, we don't know the long term effectiveness of the vaccine (both Moderno and Pfizer need a booster). We also don't know the long term effectiveness of natural immunity. Current studies lean toward the vaccine offering better protection, but which is going to better after 5 years? When the next strain comes along (and it likely will) are those who relied on natural immunity going to be better prepared to do battle, or are those who received the vaccine going to be better off??  I certainly don't know the answer to that and believe that only time will tell. 

 

I hope I'm around to read history books about how we managed this virus. 

So many important questions...

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15 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

So for the sake of discussion, what is your opinion on why the CDC is asking for mask wearing on a fully vaccinated ship?

 

 I agree, it's ludicrous. IMO, the fact that the CDC is requesting this raises red flags. I suppose I'm more suspicious than most, but this just does not compute. I feel like we are missing data. 

First of all, I do believe the CDC has trust in the vaccines, especially the mRNA vaccines. The J&J comes with a warning for women under the age of (I think) 50. Having said that, my impression is the CDC is basing their most current guidelines on pre-vaccination guidelines. I honestly do not think they took into consideration the level of safety of a fully vaccinated ship that NCL is promising to do.

 

My opinion, of course.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, parttimer55 said:

Not speculating at all.  The rule is no self serve buffet and 6 ft between restaurant patrons. The 6ft rule easily reduces capacities by half.

I have been to a buffet in Vegas. It is "no self serve" which means that people have to serve you (like when there is noro on a ship,,, or turning the buffet in to a waiter-served restaurant). And there is a lot of restaurant space which could be opened, as needed for additional seating. 

Edited by BirdTravels
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11 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

So far, in the US, 125 out of a million people aged 18-49 have died of COVID-19. That's not 125 out of a million *who got COVID* died, that's 125 out of a million Americans 18-49 PERIOD. SO FAR!

 

If I'm calculating this correctly, that is a death rate of .0125%. Have we ever, in the history of the world, vaccinated large numbers of the population for a death rate of .0125%? 

 

And before I'm called a monster, I know first hand that covid is not a hoax as I lost BOTH in-laws to covid. I'm all for vaccinating our most vulnerable population. But I do questing vaccinating healthy individuals.

 

I am not trying to be disrespectful. I am truly trying to understand. We will probably never agree on this subject, but I am willing to listen with an open mind.

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3 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

First of all, I do believe the CDC has trust in the vaccines, especially the mRNA vaccines. The J&J comes with a warning for women under the age of (I think) 50. Having said that, my impression is the CDC is basing their most current guidelines on pre-vaccination guidelines. I honestly do not think they took into consideration the level of safety of a fully vaccinated ship that NCL is promising to do.

 

My opinion, of course.

 

Thank you. I believe that you truly believe this. I do not believe that most people on CC are coming from a malice place. I just don't believe that we (including myself) have all the information needed to make truly informed decisions.

 

Please read this article supplied by winterbliss. If, after reading it (and some of the references supplied within), tell me if you believe that information about the vaccines effectiveness has been withheld from the general public? IMO, there is good info here. At least enough to make everyone pause momentarily to contemplate. Maybe not change your mind completely, but at least give it some thought.

 

https://www.mdpi.com/1648-9144/57/3/199/htm

 

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3 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

Yeah, I agree. Seems like there has been increasing resistance against getting the vaccine now than there was when the vaccine(s) were first rolled out. Strange. You would think it would be the opposite with people getting the vaccine(s) showing the non-vaccinated that there is nothing to fear and the vaccines are perfectly safe. I've had my 2 Moderna jabs; I'm ready to cruise!

We got our 2 Phizers its been 3 weeks good to go

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15 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

If I'm calculating this correctly, that is a death rate of .0125%. Have we ever, in the history of the world, vaccinated large numbers of the population for a death rate of .0125%? 

 

And before I'm called a monster, I know first hand that covid is not a hoax as I lost BOTH in-laws to covid. I'm all for vaccinating our most vulnerable population. But I do questing vaccinating healthy individuals.

 

I am not trying to be disrespectful. I am truly trying to understand. We will probably never agree on this subject, but I am willing to listen with an open mind.

Don’t worry- the silent majority agrees with you.

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On 5/8/2021 at 1:16 PM, jperry2011 said:

If you want to be masked up forever be my guest.. don't force them on people especially those of us already vaccinated. That's called control.

What do you do when you wish to enter an establishment that has a sign on the door "MASKS REQUIRED"?

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