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Who in their right mind would want to cruise under these conditions??????


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50 minutes ago, tallyho8 said:

 

The ones who won't take the vaccine because they don't know what is in it are the same ones who eat hot dogs and potted meat. They don't want to admit they are afraid of the iddy biddy needle

 

What if they already had COVID? Wouldn’t they be counted in the herd immunity group too?

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This discussion/bickering  is becoming irrelevant. The CDC clearly wants to do a job on cruise lines. It could be, as pointed out herein to make them fly the flag of the US, albeit it cruises will skyrocket in price.

 

What difference will our discussions make?

 

Or, It could be that those wanting a "new green deal" are starting with cruise lines.

 

But the clock is running down regardless of what we, potential cruisers,  feel about any part of this and it's a shame.

 

So, following the dark humor in the above movie clip, we probably will not have to worry about the restrictions. Those will drive the cruise line industry into extinction. And then the playbook will be used elsewhere.

What's  the over under on number of months left for cruise industry before it runs out  of cash and places to get cash? ?  If the CDC prolongs this much further, who is going to lend them more money? Who will want to buy newly issued stock at a high price? What about the supply chain just wilting?

 

Sadly, There has to be a time date on all of this.

 

BTW, the CDC just reported that only 5% of the covid deaths occurred where only covid was present. That's about 30,000. Not so pleasant.  The other ~570,000 had covid present but on average they had 4 co morbidities, in other words in deep trouble excluding covid. 85% of the other category is 65 years or older. The CDC could have responded better overall, as these issues were well known 15 months ago.

 

My own circle of  acquaintances is 2 people we know passed away in the "other" category and we knew pre covid the call would be coming sooner  rather than later. Everybody else all 70 or above and in good health (eg able to take the stairs on a ship if necessary without stopping for a breather), recovered at home, without medication in a week to two. We have had a few friends/acquaintances pass away this last 16 months, not from covid, but from bodies just wearing out, as the spouse of a HS friend said to me.

 

Also, there have been 3900 deaths reported due to vaccinations--a small number indeed, but then again, the media said any covid deaths were unreasonable. Zero tolerance except for vaccinations?

 

There are a ton of inconsistencies.

 

That said, my wife and I who disagree politically, agreed there is no way we spend our hard earned money on a vacation where you have to wear masks, and follow a slew of other rules. We will do a road trip instead and go see what we have not seen of the US.

 

Kind of reminds me of the Army 50 some years ago. Nothing like going thru the monkey bars before going into the mess hall for a meal to be consumed in 10 minutes.  Prepacked meals on balcony sounds just peachy. At least we will not need to be concerned with dress code for dinner. Nobody will want to approach you, and no groups will be able to whisper about you.

 

Somewhere in this is a Seinfeld routine.

 

Another BTW--I read an article that said 80% of the passengers of cruise lines globally were from the US and a very high % of cruises originated in the US. Who knows how much business they will lose one way or another.

 

G'night all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I was correct, the number in this context is 0.0125%;  but I can see where you were confused. I was responding to Jamie who wrote "So far, in the US, 125 out of a million people aged 18-49 have died of COVID-19. That's not 125 out of a million *who got COVID* died, that's 125 out of a million Americans 18-49 PERIOD. SO FAR!"  

 

0.0125% is correct in this case, but I do thank you for double checking.

Hi,

Sorry about my confusion. I thought you were determining the "case fatality rate" or

in simple terms "how many people die if they get covid". The numbers Jamie uses 

is total size of the population NOT how many die from covid (in that age group).

It's a bit misleading because most didn't get infected. Yes, I agree,  most will not die from

covid if they were not infected with covid. I wasn't clear on Jamie's quote.

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7 hours ago, HBCcruiser said:

 

What if they already had COVID? Wouldn’t they be counted in the herd immunity group too?

Been saying that for months.  We're the forgotten 20%.

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2 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Been saying that for months.  We're the forgotten 20%.

 

Generally COVID antibodies only persist for about 6 months post infection. So when did you get infected?

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1 minute ago, pmd98052 said:

 

Generally COVID antibodies only persist for about 6 months post infection. So when did you get infected?

See - part of the disinformation is this.  Get up to speed with the science -antibodies wane over time.  The human immune system is fascinating though - we have cells that recognize danger and activate cells that kill danger, not just cells (antibodies) that tend to known injuries, long after antibodies have done their job.  Think measles, polio, SARS1 (a very close cousin).

 

 

Most indications are that, like many other viruses, Covid is mostly one and done.

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3 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

See - part of the disinformation is this.  Get up to speed with the science -antibodies wane over time.  The human immune system is fascinating though - we have cells that recognize danger and activate cells that kill danger, not just cells (antibodies) that tend to known injuries, long after antibodies have done their job.  Think measles, polio, SARS1 (a very close cousin).

 

 

Most indications are that, like many other viruses, Covid is mostly one and done.

 

Its not disinformation. You need to read the Lancet's latest. Dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 neutralising antibody responses and duration of immunity: a longitudinal study - The Lancet Microbe

 

In summary groups of people who have had COVID do lose antibody response. So how can that be used? "Oh you've had COVID, sure come on the cruise" versus "oh you were vaccinated in last <x> months, sure come on the cruise"

 

Just get vaccinated.

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19 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

I have been to a buffet in Vegas. It is "no self serve" which means that people have to serve you (like when there is noro on a ship,,, or turning the buffet in to a waiter-served restaurant). And there is a lot of restaurant space which could be opened, as needed for additional seating. 

Viva Las Vegas! I plan on going back there- in fact the only reason I stopped going there was I returned to cruising and did that more. Best meals in my life were in Vegas. 

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7 hours ago, HMR74 said:

 

 

 

This discussion/bickering  is becoming irrelevant. The CDC clearly wants to do a job on cruise lines. It could be, as pointed out herein to make them fly the flag of the US, albeit it cruises will skyrocket in price.

 

What difference will our discussions make?

 

Or, It could be that those wanting a "new green deal" are starting with cruise lines.

 

But the clock is running down regardless of what we, potential cruisers,  feel about any part of this and it's a shame.

 

So, following the dark humor in the above movie clip, we probably will not have to worry about the restrictions. Those will drive the cruise line industry into extinction. And then the playbook will be used elsewhere.

What's  the over under on number of months left for cruise industry before it runs out  of cash and places to get cash? ?  If the CDC prolongs this much further, who is going to lend them more money? Who will want to buy newly issued stock at a high price? What about the supply chain just wilting?

 

Sadly, There has to be a time date on all of this.

Why would CDC want to drive cruise lines out of business?  The reason why the cruise lines are being "picked on" by the CDC is they has legal authority over the cruise lines, unlike the airline, hotel, amusement parks etc.  They can only offer suggestions to them.  So they can't use the same tactics to do a "new green deal". 

 

I do think the CDC was remiss in waiting so long to get more direct information to the cruise lines about what procedures/policies they need to implement to start sailing again

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13 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

No. Airlines do not require any covid testing to fly. I fly several times a month. 

 

Domestic flights in the US do not require a COVID test.  International flights do.  You cannot board an airline to fly into the US without evidence of a negative test.  That includes US citizens.

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1 hour ago, pmd98052 said:

 

Generally COVID antibodies only persist for about 6 months post infection. So when did you get infected?

 

1 hour ago, pmd98052 said:

 

Its not disinformation. You need to read the Lancet's latest. Dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 neutralising antibody responses and duration of immunity: a longitudinal study - The Lancet Microbe

 

In summary groups of people who have had COVID do lose antibody response. So how can that be used? "Oh you've had COVID, sure come on the cruise" versus "oh you were vaccinated in last <x> months, sure come on the cruise"

 

Just get vaccinated.

 

Who cares how long antibodies are present, if  "Patients from all groups, including the negative group, showed sustained T-cell immunity 6 months after initial infection"?

 

 

"Neutralising antibody longevity was associated with sustained levels of inflammatory cytokines up to at least 180 days post-symptom onset in patients who had recovered from COVID-19."

 

at least 180 days

 

"we believe our predictions are not unrealistic considering that patients infected with SARS-CoV showed long lasting neutralising antibodies 17 years after initial infection"

 

 

Interesting article. Another takeaway: the worse the infection, the longer the immunity lasts.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Sinbadssailors said:

 

 

Who cares how long antibodies are present, if  "Patients from all groups, including the negative group, showed sustained T-cell immunity 6 months after initial infection"?

 

 

"Neutralising antibody longevity was associated with sustained levels of inflammatory cytokines up to at least 180 days post-symptom onset in patients who had recovered from COVID-19."

 

at least 180 days

 

"we believe our predictions are not unrealistic considering that patients infected with SARS-CoV showed long lasting neutralising antibodies 17 years after initial infection"

 

 

Interesting article. Another takeaway: the worse the infection, the longer the immunity lasts.

 

 

 

 

Indeed - So it could be, "Hey did you almost die from COVID 6 months ago and can you prove how close to death you were?" if so then yes come join our cruise?

 

Alternatively. Just get vaccinated and show proof. Much easier.

Edited by pmd98052
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Posted (edited)

Let me amplify my earlier post on CDC vs Cruise lines.

 

The Cruise lines have a limited window of solvency ( I have no idea how long they can go on with limited revenues) , the CDC does not have that problem.

 

The cruise lines had good profits pre covid. Returning to those profit levels is not like turning on a switch

But first cruises have to get started. at ~50% capacity, and that's dependent on satisfying all the requirements of CDC until CDC relaxes them.

In the meantime cash burn will probably go up because of increased expenses as 50% occupancy will not pay  for fuels and food and all the protocols and reporting to be done.

 

So CDC can afford to wait. Cruise lines cannot. It is a tactic frequently used by those in power.

 

In the meantime, for example, a large number of folks here on CC say either they will or will not cruise if masks are or are not allowed. eg, I am vaccinated but will not cruise because I have the right to make that decision if masks are required,  and others have the right to say and do that they will not cruise if masks are not required.

Either way, the cruise lines alienate a large chunk of their potential customers, and ditto for social distancing in dining rooms and theaters and poolside and bars and fitness center and yada yada. courtesy of the CDC

 

We all have or own deal breaking specifics.

But again it means that until all of this is resolved, cruise lines will not easily get back to positive cash flow.

 

And we all lose.

 

The CDC somehow has created a divide and conquer situation. And the clock is ticking against the cruise lines and their customers.

 

By the way, Vitamin D looks to be rather important for ones immune system. When did the CDC say its advisable to take Vitamin D, or when did the media say it. All those experts.

 

You are your own best advocate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by HMR74
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1 hour ago, pmd98052 said:

Alternatively. Just get vaccinated and show proof. Much easier.

Doctors are able to provide proof that a person had COVID. Perhaps a "card" could be created documenting this? I have a friend who had COVID last year and had a really bad reaction to the first dose of Moderna. Her doctor told her not to get the second dose. 

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3 hours ago, pmd98052 said:

 

Its not disinformation. You need to read the Lancet's latest. Dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 neutralising antibody responses and duration of immunity: a longitudinal study - The Lancet Microbe

 

In summary groups of people who have had COVID do lose antibody response. So how can that be used? "Oh you've had COVID, sure come on the cruise" versus "oh you were vaccinated in last <x> months, sure come on the cruise"

 

Just get vaccinated.

No medical reason to.  I've used a bulletproof vest analogy.  Yours is 95 % effective.  Mine is arguably more so.  Throw in the fact emergency use only, side effects of previously infected, long-term humoral immunity, and there have been no clinical trials done on infected people.  Ad nauseam.  The entirety of our discourse on the subject can be boiled down to directives on healthcare without science.  Evidence your last sentence absent anything to substantiate it.  Still a big fat nope and shame on those trying to shove vaccines down others' throats.

 

https://www.isglobal.org/documents/10179/7860911/Report+Immunity+to+SARS+CoV2.pdf/7ad40dca-c2ad-4aae-afe9-257afc93e8b2

 

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/covid-19-reinfection-rate-around-0-4-epic-data-suggests.html

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17 hours ago, kirtihk said:

I wonder what if one jumps off the ship after being over stressed by breathing CO2? Would it also be ruled “just like any other open area on the ship”? - hay, stop, go back, nut your rag on, now you may jump.

No, I think not because CDC allows one to swim without a mask.

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1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

No, I think not because CDC allows one to swim without a mask.

My wife and joked about walking around the ship with this on all the time.

image.png.29f172c1fdf09136952948852cb94037.png

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

My wife and joked about walking around the ship with this on all the time.

image.png.29f172c1fdf09136952948852cb94037.png

why would your wife let you walk around with a young lady like that.

 

And if someone jumped ship, as long as they were in international "waters" the rule does not apply.

Edited by HMR74
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6 hours ago, HMR74 said:

Let me amplify my earlier post on CDC vs Cruise lines.

 

The Cruise lines have a limited window of solvency ( I have no idea how long they can go on with limited revenues) , the CDC does not have that problem.

 

The cruise lines had good profits pre covid. Returning to those profit levels is not like turning on a switch

But first cruises have to get started. at ~50% capacity, and that's dependent on satisfying all the requirements of CDC until CDC relaxes them.

In the meantime cash burn will probably go up because of increased expenses as 50% occupancy will not pay  for fuels and food and all the protocols and reporting to be done.

 

So CDC can afford to wait. Cruise lines cannot. It is a tactic frequently used by those in power.

 

In the meantime, for example, a large number of folks here on CC say either they will or will not cruise if masks are or are not allowed. eg, I am vaccinated but will not cruise because I have the right to make that decision if masks are required,  and others have the right to say and do that they will not cruise if masks are not required.

Either way, the cruise lines alienate a large chunk of their potential customers, and ditto for social distancing in dining rooms and theaters and poolside and bars and fitness center and yada yada. courtesy of the CDC

 

We all have or own deal breaking specifics.

But again it means that until all of this is resolved, cruise lines will not easily get back to positive cash flow.

 

And we all lose.

 

The CDC somehow has created a divide and conquer situation. And the clock is ticking against the cruise lines and their customers.

 

By the way, Vitamin D looks to be rather important for ones immune system. When did the CDC say its advisable to take Vitamin D, or when did the media say it. All those experts.

 

You are your own best advocate.

 

 

OMG.  Another member of sound mind.  😲👍

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

My wife and joked about walking around the ship with this on all the time.

image.png.29f172c1fdf09136952948852cb94037.png

 

 

Public service announcement: Please research before purchasing this type of snorkeling mask. Apparently 9 snorkeling deaths were logged in Maui in 2018 and most tour operators no longer allow them on the boats due to the number of snorkeling deaths attributed to this design.

 

Dr. Philip Foti, an Oahu physician who specializes in pulmonary and internal medicine, addressed a conference, regarding drowning prevention, in 2017, and stated this about full-faced masks: “…there is dead space ventilation in the device that seems greater than in the standard snorkel tube. That dead space can cause carbon dioxide buildup.” This CO2 buildup could cause a person to become disoriented, or, even lose consciousness. https://hawaiioceanproject.com/why-we-no-longer-support-full-faced-snorkel-masks/

 

I know this has nothing to due with the topic and that DCGuy wasn't promoting this design, but when I saw the photo I felt compelled to comment since I had no idea and my niece almost purchased this at Costco last month.

 

PSS: @DCGuy64the comment about your wife made me laugh. Extremely witty reply. TY :)

 

Edited by BermudaBound2014
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4 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

My wife and joked about walking around the ship with this on all the time.

image.png.29f172c1fdf09136952948852cb94037.png

Probably safer to wear it on the ship, than use something like that in the water.🤔

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17 hours ago, HMR74 said:

Also, there have been 3900 deaths reported due to vaccinations--a small number indeed, but then again, the media said any covid deaths were unreasonable. 

One person on TV starts this rumor and even though it is denied by many others and yet people persist in trying to spread this rumor to scare others from getting the vaccine.

 

The fact is that no one has been proven to have been killed by the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine yet.

 

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