New CDC Guidance 5/26, significant changes for masks and dining

[jrapps]

7 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

But the under 12s at not above 5% even in the summer time are they?

Royal obviously seems to think they are.

 

For the cruises I have been on I would tend to agree. Ever been the parent trying to drop a kid off at the kids club just before dinner time? 

 

It is more than 5%

[ace2542]

1 minute ago, jrapps said:

Royal obviously seems to think they are.

 

For the cruises I have been on I would tend to agree. Ever been the parent trying to drop a kid off at the kids club just before dinner time? 

 

It is more than 5%

Well it wasn't on the Gem at Christmas 2017? At least not under the age of 12 and the average onboard that was 29 apparently.

[jrapps]

3 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Would it not be better for Royal just to say masks for life we are never lifting the requirements?

I think you may have found the one position that all the pro vaccine and anti-vaccine people can rally behind.

 

People don't want to wear a mask (especially if they don't have to)

 

All the Vaccinated people will question why they are wearing it because they're vaccinated. All of the non-vaccinated people will question it because they likely don't think that masks do anything, or make some other wild claim like I've already had covid I can't catch it again. 

[jrapps]

3 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Well it wasn't on the Gem at Christmas 2017? At least not under the age of 12 and the average onboard that was 29 apparently.

Yeah I wouldn't really expect it on the Gem. That's a much older and smaller Norwegian ship. That's not really the demographic they would be catering to.

 

Try going over the summer time on the Oasis, symphony, Harmony, Allure, Freedom, Independence, Mariner, Voyager....

 

Way more than 5% kids.

[ace2542]

2 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I think you may have found the one position that all the pro vaccine and anti-vaccine people can rally behind.

 

People don't want to wear a mask (especially if they don't have to)

 

All the Vaccinated people will question why they are wearing it because they're vaccinated. All of the non-vaccinated people will question it because they likely don't think that masks do anything, or make some other wild claim like I've already had covid I can't catch it again. 

And if cruising doesn't survive then it wasn't meant to. 

[ace2542]

5 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Yeah I wouldn't really expect it on the Gem. That's a much older and smaller Norwegian ship. That's not really the demographic they would be catering to

I dunno there was a heck of a lot of younger people onboard and a lot of teens hanging around outside the club who where too young to get in. The club was packed every night with college kids with their parents and the 17 and 16 year old dancing in the hallway. A lot of older people came on from QM2 for the trip but average age was still 29.

[jrapps]

7 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

And if cruising doesn't survive then it wasn't meant to. 

Sure, business fail all the time, but none do so willingly. A business is not going to take that position. They are going to do everything they can to stay in business.

 

Look you have an industry here with a highly desirable commodity, and a large group of people with enough disposable income who want that commodity. There are simple, effective, and legal things this business can do to stay in business. You can't expect them not to do it.

 

The cruise lines don't want masks, the customers don't want masks. The cruise lines want a covid free ship. The customers want a covid free ship. Everything else is just noise. It will all get worked out and the cruise industry will survive. Not everyone will get what they want (welcome to life), but the rest of all this endless arguing back and forth is just needless.

[ace2542]

2 minutes ago, jrapps said:

Sure, business fail all the time, but none do so willingly. A business is not going to take that position. They are going to do everything they can to stay in business

Yet the airline industry survived 9/11 and people are happy to be have shoes and liquids removed and even be x-rayed on a regular basis? And now have to re mask after each bite of a meal? People could simply have said we are not flying and the airline industry would have gone bust or go bust quite soon. But it won't?

 

That has survived, so would the cruise lines?

[jrapps]

2 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Yet the airline industry survived 9/11 and people are happy to be have shoes and liquids removed and even be x-rayed on a regular basis? And now have to re mask after each bite of a meal? People could simply have said we are not flying and the airline industry would have gone bust or go bust quite soon. But it won't?

 

That has survived, so would the cruise lines?

I don't know if people are "happy" going thru TSA checkpoints. I would more say it is something that is tolerated. Your analogy is not quite equivalent. You are comparing air travel which by many is considered critical transportation, with a leisure service. Not quite the same. However, just like airplanes there are going to be things that people tolerate (and dislike) such as covid tests. Do they tolerate masks on planes...sure because the alternative is painful (much longer travel via car, if that is even an option). Would people tolerate similar masking on cruise ships...doubtful since that is a voluntary leisure service and there are alternatives. So yes, if you required masks while eating on a cruise ship, I can see cruise lines going out of business. But that isn't a requirement. There is even a path where a cruise line can run a vacation with no masks at all. So its not a fair comparison.

[mauraoel]

I don't take my shoes off when I fly.  And if you think about it taking you mask on and off between bites and sips is actually going against cdc recommendations.   You aren’t suppose to touch you mask once you put it on so that it does get germs on it but handling it every time you want to take a bite or sip is sanitary?

 

The cruise lines will manage just fine once everything gets going, the regulations will relax once things settle down and the ships are proven not to be super spreaders just like family holidays, sporting events.

[dswallow]

6 hours ago, ace2542 said:

I still don't understand why Royal are banking on not reaching that 95% threshold when Celeb brand is confident it will and NCL are insisting upon 100%? If they can reach or insist upon those thresholds surely Royal can? Why does Royal think it cannot?

 

Preparing to be able to allow under 95% of passengers being vaccinated is different from deciding to sail only with 95% or more passengers vaccinated. It gives them more options.

[At Sea At Peace]

4 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Yet the airline industry survived 9/11 and people are happy to be have shoes and liquids removed and even be x-rayed on a regular basis? And now have to re mask after each bite of a meal? People could simply have said we are not flying and the airline industry would have gone bust or go bust quite soon. But it won't?

 

That has survived, so would the cruise lines?

 

I believe the $54 billion that airlines got in federal payroll grants and the $25 billion in low interest loans for pandemic related causes probably helped the airlines.  The cruise lines essentially got nothing, except for some 'back door' bond and interest rate assistance indirectly via the Federal Reserve.

[ace2542]

5 hours ago, mauraoel said:

the regulations will relax once things settle down and the ships are proven not to be super spreaders just like family holidays, sporting events

They are super spreaders though. In no other setting that I can think off do 6500 people spend 7 or 14 nights together on a 188ft by 15ft maybe floating mobile bubble than on a cruise ship

[mauraoel]

5 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

They are super spreaders though. In no other setting that I can think off do 6500 people spend 7 or 14 nights together on a 188ft by 15ft maybe floating mobile bubble than on a cruise ship

That is your opinion .  

[dswallow]

10 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

They are super spreaders though. In no other setting that I can think off do 6500 people spend 7 or 14 nights together on a 188ft by 15ft maybe floating mobile bubble than on a cruise ship

 

Yet it's happened only once. Where it only got that way when government officials refused to permit anyone to leave the ship where just a small number had initially shown symptoms, thus creating the problem instead of controlling it. And even that, that one instance has been studied and all the factors found to be instrumental in the spread have since been addressed.

How many super-spreader events have we had to endure going through on land? How many times, subsequently do we review those events to find people behaving in the same stupid ways that would have prevented it and that we saw happen in every prior super-spreader event? 

[Merion_Mom]

On 5/27/2021 at 7:06 AM, At Sea At Peace said:

 

A lot of good points.  Thanks.  Just a couple of light-hearted comments.

 

NH does not require seat belts for adults.  👍  

 

 

 

"New Hampshire is the only U.S. state that does not by law require adult drivers to wear safety belts while operating a motor vehicle. ... If a driver commits a primary violation (e.g., for speeding) they may additionally be charged for not wearing a seat belt."

 

 

 

 

[At Sea At Peace]

50 minutes ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

"New Hampshire is the only U.S. state that does not by law require adult drivers to wear safety belts while operating a motor vehicle. ... If a driver commits a primary violation (e.g., for speeding) they may additionally be charged for not wearing a seat belt."

 

 

That quote is from Wikipedia.  

 

No adult has 'ever' been charged and convicted of not wearing a seat belt.

 

None.

 

Again, the point was pleasantly made in regard to the statement that 'seat belts are required in all 50 states.

 

Such is not, as in NH they are not required.

 

 

[not-enough-cruising]

2 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

That quote is from Wikipedia.  

 

No adult has 'ever' been charged and convicted of not wearing a seat belt.

 

None.

 

Again, the point was pleasantly made in regard to the statement that 'seat belts are required in all 50 states.

 

Such is not, as in NH they are not required.

 

 

“Charged and convicted?” This isn’t a major crime. 
it’s a traffic ticket, and plenty have been handed out and paid. 

[At Sea At Peace]

35 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

“Charged and convicted?” This isn’t a major crime. 
it’s a traffic ticket, and plenty have been handed out and paid. 

 

Sorry. I don't know if you know this is about the reference to NH; there is no requirement for an adult to wear a seat belt.  It goes back to an earlier post that all 50 states require seat belts.  It was a light hearted post to just note that in NH such is not true.

 

So, again, NO adult has been given a seat belt ticket in NH under the law when effective.

 

No one.

 

So, "plenty have been handed out and paid" is 100% wrong for NH.

 

 

[dswallow]

7 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Sorry. I don't know if you know this is about the reference to NH; there is no requirement for an adult to wear a seat belt.  It goes back to an earlier post that all 50 states require seat belts.  It was a light hearted post to just note that in NH such is not true.

 

So, again, NO adult has been given a seat belt ticket in NH under the law when effective.

 

No one.

 

So, "plenty have been handed out and paid" is 100% wrong for NH.

 

 

 

NH does have a seat belt law. It's just that it applies only to those under 18, and those under 7 must use a child restraint system. They still let some folks under 18 drive, too, right?

According to the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration (NHTSA), states with stronger seat belt laws generally have higher rates of usage than those with weaker or no laws. New Hampshire’s adult seat belt usage was actually the lowest in the U.S. in 2018, averaging 76.4%. The national average is 89.6%. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by dswallow

[shutterbug63]

On 5/27/2021 at 6:56 AM, BecciBoo said:

That card is issued by the CDC, you don't think all of the partners administrating the vaccines report what they did to the CDC?  Seriously!   Did you not fill out the registration form before you got them?  They know who you are, where you live, what kind of vaccine it was, your SS#, when you got them, who gave them, the date and the batch #s, etc. etc. etc.

I honestly don't know.  I know my registration is my state's public health database and I'm sure the federal government knows how the vaccines were allocated to the states. I just haven't read anything that says there's a national database.  Perhaps there is. I don't know  and I have read that reporting is kind of a patchwork depending on what state you're in.  That was my only point. I'm not saying one way or the other - I'm saying I don't know and I'm reserving my judgment.

 

Personally, I would like it if there was a database for authorized entities to verify someone's vaccine status, but given how politicized this has all become, I doubt that will happen.  I also think there might legal issues surround that. I don't know,  I'm just speculating.

Edited May 28, 2021 by shutterbug63

[dswallow]

32 minutes ago, shutterbug63 said:

I honestly don't know.  I know my registration is my state's public health database and I'm sure the federal government knows how the vaccines were allocated to the states. I just haven't read anything that says there's a national database.  Perhaps there is. I don't know  and I have read that reporting is kind of a patchwork depending on what state you're in.  That was my only point. I'm not saying one way or the other - I'm saying I don't know and I'm reserving my judgment.

 

Personally, I would like it if there was a database for authorized entities to verify someone's vaccine status, but given how politicized this has all become, I doubt that will happen.  I also think there might legal issues surround that. I don't know,  I'm just speculating.

 

I know there was language on some technical web page at the CDC's site which seems to indicate it being mandatory for them to be provided with immunization information for emergency use vaccinations. There might've been an alternate method could be used in some arrangements. 

[coffeebean]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:42 AM, Blauelini said:

So everyone reading this understands, RCCL own Richard Fain has stated Royal will not be able to meet the 95% threshold. The only Royal Caribbean Group line that will is Celebrity. They will require a vaccine for those eligible but due to large amounts of children and families,  they will not meet it. On some cruises ,depending on amount of kids, it could be in the 70 or 80% range. Thus RCCL has elected to do test cruises (every single ship will have to do them) and sail under the CSO's stricter guidelines. Thus the no mask, no social distancing changes from yesterday will not apply to Royal cruises. Strict mask wearing,  no self serve buffets and social distancing, limited capacities for onboard events will be in full effect for a long time. They are really screwing every vaxxed person that cruises without children. I encourage you to reach out to RCCL to tell them your thoughts. 

I will tell RCCL with the money that I will not be paying them to book a cruise with them. 

[coffeebean]

On 5/27/2021 at 2:02 PM, 3kidsncats said:

Or, more accurately, I think your point is incorrect.  Pretty sure the goal is to get cruises going again with the best balance between all the issues/factors in play.  Punishment and screwing over are not in play — the hard realities that this pandemic created are.  So we all have to make adjustments so we can get back to some normalcy as soon as possible.  If that means we wear masks on a cruise, so others can bring their kids who are not eligible to get the vaccine, no problem.  I have zero interest in wearing masks due to eligible people choosing NOT to get the vaccine.  But kids under 12?  For them, I would mask up — or sail on Celebrity 

Personally, I will not mask up for those under 12. I will sail NCL or Celebrity with 100% vaccinated crew and passengers. That is  the cruise experience I much prefer and that is where I will spend our vacation dollars.

[coffeebean]

On 5/27/2021 at 2:53 PM, ace2542 said:

So Royal is keeping masks for life just like I said!

 

My email to Richard Fain must have been more effective than I thought! 😲

@ace2542 Oh, you are such a card. You continue to make me chuckle.