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DeSantis nearing compromise on cruise vaccination requirements


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13 hours ago, Lee Cruiser said:

Not a lawyer, but it would seem that the judge would have to place an injunction on that law as well.  Again, I'm certainly not an expert, but I would think that would require a different lawsuit all together.

  Nope.  This judge has not been asked to rule on Florida’s law.

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I read two different accounts of today’s proceedings.    Either the judge grilled the attorney for Florida and asked a few questions of the CDC lawyers, or he grilled the lawyers for the CDC...in any event, he was obviously thorough.  He didn’t indicate from the bench how he plans to rule.

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"The CEO of the Canaveral Port Authority was inside the hearing. He says even though cruise lines are already making plans to get back up and running, this lawsuit plays an important part in the speed.

“The case itself has driven the process along a little fast than it otherwise would’ve transpired. I’m not so sure the CDC would be working as quickly as they are right now to get the industry back online,” said Captain John Murray.

Murray also said Port Canaveral has four cruise lines that have all submitted their Conditional Sail Orders paperwork, and that the CDC has approved them. He says they’ll be taking the simulated voyage route, in order to allow more children onboard.

“We’re a Central Florida cruise port, and our market is the Orlando market and children and the folks that go to the theme parks, and all of our ships that are gonna be sailing out of Port Canaveral are gonna be sailing on the simulated voyages first, and then ultimately phasing in, none of them will reach that 95 percent criteria that the CDC has put out there to avoid the simulated sailings,” said Capt. Murray."

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/state/judge-to-make-decision-soon-in-floridas-lawsuit-against-cdc-over-cruise-lines

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Two passengers on celebrities ship tested positive for COVID-19. Both were vaccinated.  The infected passengers were quarantined and the cruise continued.

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3 minutes ago, basil's mom said:

Two passengers on celebrities ship tested positive for COVID-19. Both were vaccinated.  The infected passengers were quarantined and the cruise continued.


Which is good news for cruising.  Unless someone goes from testing negative to needing hospitalization on a 7 day cruise, quarantining them will solve the problem.  

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6 minutes ago, basil's mom said:

Two passengers on celebrities ship tested positive for COVID-19. Both were vaccinated.  The infected passengers were quarantined and the cruise continued.

And with that outcome, the narrative that we heard from a few posters:  "a single case of Covid onboard will end cruising" dies...
 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

And with that outcome, the narrative that we heard from a few posters:  "a single case of Covid onboard will end cruising" dies...
 


Right!  LOL.  So much drama for nothing.  Also, the odds of those people testing positive and being super spreaders on a short cruise and the cruising world ending as we know it were nonexistent.  Now maybe some cruisers can sleep at night.

Edited by TNcruising02
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27 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

And with that outcome, the narrative that we heard from a few posters:  "a single case of Covid onboard will end cruising" dies...
 

One would hope, now if only we could get the News people reporting on it to stop with the over the top, end of the world for Cruising attitude in the articles ive read things would be good.

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37 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

And with that outcome, the narrative that we heard from a few posters:  "a single case of Covid onboard will end cruising" dies...
 

Actually, I don't think we will know the effect of this for a few days.  I think it depends on how much traction the 2 stories get this weekend, and what, if any, affect this has on the CDC, the Governor of Florida, and the Federal Judge deciding the case in Florida.  Personally, I am hoping you are correct and people like me were wrong. 

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On 6/10/2021 at 10:47 AM, geaux_aces said:

Our even an equal protection clause violation because Florida allows/requires schools (public and private) to ask for proof of numerous vaccinations before attending school.  If schools can ask, why can't cruise ships?

 

This state law has the likelihood of falling on numerous legal grounds.

The law forbids schools from requiring Covid Vaccinations also. Very short section inserted into a pretty good sized emergency declarations/powers bill.

381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.— 1122 (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include 1123 any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or 1124 customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 1125 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1126 upon, or service from the business operations in this state. 1127 This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from 1128 instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or 1129 controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health. 1130 (2) A governmental entity as defined in s. 768.38 may not 1131 require persons to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 ENROLLED 2021 Legislature CS for CS for SB 2006, 2nd Engrossed 20212006er Page 40 of 42 CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions. 1132 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry 1133 upon, or service from the governmental entity’s operations in 1134 this state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict 1135 governmental entities from instituting screening protocols 1136 consistent with authoritative or controlling government-issued 1137 guidance to protect public health. 1138 (3) An educational institution as defined in s. 768.38 may 1139 not require students or residents to provide any documentation 1140 certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery for 1141 attendance or enrollment, or to gain access to, entry upon, or 1142 service from such educational institution in this state. This 1143 subsection does not otherwise restrict educational institutions 1144 from instituting screening protocols consistent with 1145 authoritative or controlling government-issued guidance to 1146 protect public health. 1147 (4) The department may impose a fine not to exceed $5,000 1148 per violation. 1149 (5) This section does not apply to a health care provider 1150 as defined in s. 768.38; a service provider licensed or 1151 certified under s. 393.17, part III of chapter 401, or part IV 1152 of chapter 468; or a provider with an active health care clinic 1153 exemption under s. 400.9935. 1154 (6) The department may adopt rules pursuant to ss. 120.536 1155 and 120.54 to implement this section.

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My question is whether or not requesting proof of vaccination is a screening protocol.  Seem rather ambiguous to me, which is never good for a law.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

My question is whether or not requesting proof of vaccination is a screening protocol.  Seem rather ambiguous to me, which is never good for a law.


Requesting it and denying service because it is not submitted are two different things.  I think requesting it could be part of the screening process, in addition to people completing the health form and covid tests.  But denying service based on vaccination status seems to be the issue.

It may not matter one way or the other since Carnival is stating that they are only sailing vaccinated cruises for July and August.  Anyone who is not vaccinated or who has small children will either get a refund or rebook.  As long as they don't accept new bookings to those cruises, they will end up sailing with vaccinated people without denying service based on vaccination status by the time those cruises come along.  Thus, not breaking any laws.

Then they can tell the remaining people that they don't have to wear a mask if they are vaccinated and bring their card.  The only issue I see is that they would sail the test cruise to cover all of their bases.

I guess they could still take new bookings because people would be under the impression it will be vaccinated only.

Edited by TNcruising02
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The Florida law seems to conflict with itself

 

(e) Programs for the prevention and control of vaccine-preventable diseases, including programs to immunize school children as required by s. 1003.22(3)-(11) and the development of an automated, electronic, and centralized database and registry of immunizations. The department shall ensure that all children in this state are immunized against vaccine-preventable diseases. The immunization registry must allow the department to enhance current immunization activities for the purpose of improving the immunization of all children in this state.

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6 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:


Requesting it and denying service because it is not submitted are two different things.  I think requesting it could be part of the screening process, in addition to people completing the health form and covid tests.  But denying service based on vaccination status seems to be the issue.

It may not matter one way or the other since Carnival is stating that they are only sailing vaccinated cruises for July and August.  Anyone who is not vaccinated or who has small children will either get a refund or rebook.  As long as they don't accept new bookings to those cruises, they will end up sailing with vaccinated people without denying service based on vaccination status by the time those cruises come along.  Thus, not breaking any laws.

Then they can tell the remaining people that they don't have to wear a mask if they are vaccinated and bring their card.

But somewhere in that process they have to ask for proof to determine who sails and those that don't show proof will be denied boarding or have their cruise canceled.  However, a screening process that does not allow you to deny entry to people that do not pass that screening protocol would be contradictory. So see three possible challenges to the law, Federal law controls, it is ambiguous and/or it is contradictory.  but none of those can be challenged until Florida imposes a fine on a cruise company.  But all of this is pure speculation.  All any of us can do is wait and see.  Oh, and continue to speculate because that is all we can do.

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4 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

But somewhere in that process they have to ask for proof to determine who sails and those that don't show proof will be denied boarding or have their cruise canceled.  However, a screening process that does not allow you to deny entry to people that do not pass that screening protocol would be contradictory. So see three possible challenges to the law, Federal law controls, it is ambiguous and/or it is contradictory.  but none of those can be challenged until Florida imposes a fine on a cruise company.  But all of this is pure speculation.  All any of us can do is wait and see.  Oh, and continue to speculate because that is all we can do.


But what I am saying is that as long as Carnival insists that they are sailing with only vaccinated passengers, then all others will cancel for a refund or rebook.  Anyone booking a July and August cruise will not do it if they are not vaccinated since Carnival is telling everyone it's vaccinated only.

So then July comes around and if there is still no way around Florida's law,  Carnival can't deny service based on vaccination status.  However, by them claiming for the past month that July and August will be vaccinated only, they will have flushed out every single unvaccinated person.  When the cruises sail, all that will be left are vaccinated.  They won't have to ask for proof of vaccination for these people to board the cruise, therefore they aren't denying service based on vaccination status.  However, they can let people know that if they are vaccinated they won't have to wear a mask.

Edited by TNcruising02
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On 6/10/2021 at 2:08 PM, elcuchio24 said:

 

Figuring out how to handle Kids who cant get the vaxx (plus have almost zero chance of serious infection) is a big issue to be worked out

But we all know that kids can be super spreaders of all kinds of illnesses. 

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29 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:


But what I am saying is that as long as Carnival insists that they are sailing with only vaccinated passengers, then all others will cancel for a refund or rebook.  Anyone booking a July and August cruise will not do it if they are not vaccinated since Carnival is telling everyone it's vaccinated only.

So then July comes around and if there is still no way around Florida's law,  Carnival can't deny service based on vaccination status.  However, by them claiming for the past month that July and August will be vaccinated only, they will have flushed out every single unvaccinated person.  When the cruises sail, all that will be left are vaccinated.  They won't have to ask for proof of vaccination for these people to board the cruise, therefore they aren't denying service based on vaccination status.  However, they can let people know that if they are vaccinated they won't have to wear a mask.

I would disagree.  I am willing to bet that there are a lot of unvaccinated people that will not cancel and cruise anyway if proof is not required.  Apparently there will be an email in the next couple of days that will explain how they are going to accomplish this.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

I would disagree.  I am willing to bet that there are a lot of unvaccinated people that will not cancel and cruise anyway if proof is not required.  Apparently there will be an email in the next couple of days that will explain how they are going to accomplish this.


Right now, Carnival is stating that people must show proof that they are vaccinated.  They can say that up until the first cruise is almost ready to sail.  I doubt there will be a lot of people who keep their expensive cruise booking after Carnival tells them that they have to show proof of vaccination. Thus, all of the unvaccinated are being flushed out for July and August, whether Carnival ends of following Florida's law or is able to get around it.  Either way, all that will be left are vaccinated people.

Edited by TNcruising02
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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, jerseygirl3 said:

But we all know that kids can be super spreaders of all kinds of illnesses. 

 

ya well, thats true. As it has been, low, these past 10000000000 years....

 

Maybe lock yourself into a sterile room of some kind, might be the best option for your personal health.

Edited by elcuchio24
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24 minutes ago, jerseygirl3 said:

But we all know that kids can be super spreaders of all kinds of illnesses. 

Not with Covid they haven't. It's been the older adults as super spreaders.

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Posted (edited)

A super spread would be a very elderly person with a severe case of covid, not a small child.  My young grandchildren have been going to preschool for this past year.  The only person who ever ended up with covid is one of their teachers.  None of the kids.

 

Anytime my grandkids have been near someone with covid, they were tested.  Always negative. 

Edited by TNcruising02
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5 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

A super spread would be a very elderly person with a severe case of covid, not a small child.  My young grandchildren have been going to preschool for this past year.  The only person who ever ended up with covid is one of their teachers.  None of the kids.

 

Anytime my grandkids have been near someone with covid, they were tested.  Always negative. 

And we all HOPE it stays that way.  The problem is that no one KNOWS it will stay that way.  However low the risk is, there is still that risk.  Some are willing to take that risk, others are not.  But here again, like with the vaccine, the possible risk is not only to them, but other people around them.  So if kids and unvaccinated people go, they are forcing those people to take a risk that they may not be willing to take.  You should not be able to decide for them.  That doesn't mean anyone has to take the vaccine, but there are consequences.  For now, one of those consequences is that you cannot take a cruise.

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31 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:


...  I doubt there will be a lot of people who keep their expensive cruise booking after Carnival tells them that they have to show proof of vaccination. Thus, all of the unvaccinated are being flushed out ...

Perhaps that's why they've opened up a lot of dates!

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